Marijuana legalisation

[Walsingham]

So while we are on the topic; why is it that every tripper wants to justify their recreational use by mentioning every good that the drug does?

 

Annoying, isn't it? Its because they know its wrong and unacceptable but if more people accept it they can feel better about themselves.

 

My solution: junkies in work camps, dealers and anyone in league with them on the gallows.

You shoot enough people and you can push drugs from a semi-mainstream thing to a fringe thing, where it ought to be.

 

 

@Krezack

 

You're also not telling him that psychedelics can trigger a latent psychosis and permanently damage a certain number of predisposed but previously healthy individuals and that its effects are unpredictable and heavily dependent on external factors and can be a several hour long psychological nightmare for the user - which may also leave permanent scars.

 

If you're going to do junkie agit-prop you're going to have to do better than that.

 

Two points here.

 

1. The Mafia, and various terrorist/freedom fighter <sic> movements have tried to ban drug use. They apply the harshest punishments. You still get drug use.

 

2. Shooting everyone concerned with getting high would mean a lot of dead bodies, and a fair degree of hypocrisy. Unless you intend to shoot everyone who gets drunk also. In which case, good luck recruiting for your teetotal buzzkill brigade. You're certainly not going to get many professional soldiers or coppers.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Look its mostly a matter of public perception. When it was viewed as a fringe thing that only hopeless people did, that was more or less exactly as it was.

 

Now, through the music and film industries and a lot of propaganda its become a semi-acceptable thing.

 

There are always people who will try drugs, and the trick is not to expect a total end to drug use - but to move it back into something that is viewed negatively and judged harshly so that the total number of users drops back into acceptable statistics.

 

If it becomes okay to be high on pot all the time, tomorrow they'll ask the same for cocaine and after that heroin and god knows what else.

 

On a personal note I'm tired of dating girls only to have them drop that "I think getting high/pot/cocaine is really cool" at the second date. ****ing retards.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Walsingham]

You may just be unlucky. I've only dated two girls who thought class A drugs were cool. One was a nurse, and we can't go around shooting nurses. The other was an ex soldier, and you're welcome to try and shoot her but I suspect she'd simply kill you first.

 

Your argument falls apart like wet cake when you try to claim that everyone who uses dope or gets drunk thinks heroin (for example) is OK. Everyone I know has tried dope, and almost all of them are borderline drunkards. Virtually none of them use hard drugs. Only one of them uses them regularly.

 

I agree that several sections of society, particularly celebrities use hard drugs in a fashionable way. This is having an effect on usage, because it sends a message that the use of these drugs is both safe and fashionable. But shooting the crap out of thousands of people isn't an improvement. In many ways it's what we already do, and it ain't working.

[Malcador]

Shooting people for drug use ? Damn, you are the Emperor

[Orogun01]

On a personal note I'm tired of dating girls only to have them drop that "I think getting high/pot/cocaine is really cool" at the second date. ****ing retards.

You should stop picking girls behind the Home Depot.

[Humodour]

Look its mostly a matter of public perception. When it was viewed as a fringe thing that only hopeless people did, that was more or less exactly as it was.

 

Now, through the music and film industries and a lot of propaganda its become a semi-acceptable thing.

 

There are always people who will try drugs, and the trick is not to expect a total end to drug use - but to move it back into something that is viewed negatively and judged harshly so that the total number of users drops back into acceptable statistics.

 

If it becomes okay to be high on pot all the time, tomorrow they'll ask the same for cocaine and after that heroin and god knows what else.

 

On a personal note I'm tired of dating girls only to have them drop that "I think getting high/pot/cocaine is really cool" at the second date. ****ing retards.

 

Tell me, do you drink alcohol?

[Drowsy Emperor]

On a personal note I'm tired of dating girls only to have them drop that "I think getting high/pot/cocaine is really cool" at the second date. ****ing retards.

You should stop picking girls behind the Home Depot.

 

Touche

 

Tell me, do you drink alcohol?

 

Very rarely. And never more than two glasses of whatever is being drunk. Considering the way people usually drink alcohol - with getting drunk in mind, the better answer to your question would be "no".

 

@Wals

 

Well then, we can just shoot a few and work camps for the rest, how about that?

 

I suggest the celebrities be shot first.

 

@Malcador

 

There's no such thing as innocence you know, only varying degrees of guilt

[Walsingham]

In summary, you're supporting some sorty of fascist police action?

 

Not only do I find the notion to have a significant cost in terms of morality, blood, and treasure, but I don't believe it would come close to achieving any significant impact on the use of drugs. To me it sounds as if you just want to shoot a bunch of people. And if that's your objective then just team up with LoF or some other half-baked revolutionary cultist.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I support an all around crackdown on drugs starting with deconstruction of drug propaganda in today's culture of hedonism down to harsh punishments for participants in drug trade.

 

The latter will be completely ineffective without the former.

[Walsingham]

You can't crack down on 'hedonism'. It's in our freaking brains. Hardwired.

 

Have a squizz at Iran's attempts to handle drugs and 'hedonism', and maybe you'll see my point.

[Gorgon]

The latter and the former will be completely ineffective you mean. Hash has become illegal through historical accident more than anything else, and government should stop trying to parent adults capable of making informed decisions. It really is much too late for that.

 

If a drug policy existed that took only into account the relative danger of various drugs and made the worst of them illegal, I would support it, but it's not based on science, it's almost entirely about public opinion.

[Walsingham]

The latter and the former will be completely ineffective you mean. Hash has become illegal through historical accident more than anything else, and government should stop trying to parent adults capable of making informed decisions. It really is much too late for that.

 

If a drug policy existed that took only into account the relative danger of various drugs and made the worst of them illegal, I would support it, but it's not based on science, it's almost entirely about public opinion.

 

Sorry t obe deliberately provocative, but since we are a democracy, isn't 'public opinion' a better basis for law than science?

[Gorgon]

No, the majority has no right to deny a minority whatever they chose do with their leisure time without a real reason.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Gorgon

[Drowsy Emperor]

Hearing you talk Gorgon it turns out their individual rights to shoot up, snort or otherwise imbibe whatever drugs they want and make life hell for everyone else, directly (their families, friends, bystanders) or indirectly (drug related and funded crime, disease, accidents etc.) somehow deserve to be protected and expanded yet ordinary people who just want that out of their streets should somehow shut up and suck it up.

 

That's not how it works. If we let every minority do what the hell it liked, we might as well legalize serial killers, terrorists, paedophilia lovers etc.

 

Cos they're doing it in their leisure time and all.

 

Your rights extend only as far as the borders of mine, and what the majority wants is exactly the guiding principle of democracy.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Humodour]

Hearing you talk Gorgon it turns out their individual rights to shoot up, snort or otherwise imbibe whatever drugs they want and make life hell for everyone else, directly (their families, friends, bystanders) or indirectly (drug related and funded crime, disease, accidents etc.) somehow deserve to be protected and expanded yet ordinary people who just want that out of their streets should somehow shut up and suck it up.

 

That's not how it works. If we let every minority do what the hell it liked, we might as well legalize serial killers, terrorists, paedophilia lovers etc.

 

Cos they're doing it in their leisure time and all.

 

Your rights extend only as far as the borders of mine, and what the majority wants is exactly the guiding principle of democracy.

 

You sound like a brainwashed kid to me.

 

In fact, you sound like me when I was 14.

 

I was wrong of course, and Gorgon is far and away correct. And what Gorgon is referring to is akin to a Bill of Rights.

[Malcador]

Will be funny if they legalise it and then there's whining about the taxation of it, heh. I can see that happening here, at least.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Hearing you talk Gorgon it turns out their individual rights to shoot up, snort or otherwise imbibe whatever drugs they want and make life hell for everyone else, directly (their families, friends, bystanders) or indirectly (drug related and funded crime, disease, accidents etc.) somehow deserve to be protected and expanded yet ordinary people who just want that out of their streets should somehow shut up and suck it up.

 

That's not how it works. If we let every minority do what the hell it liked, we might as well legalize serial killers, terrorists, paedophilia lovers etc.

 

Cos they're doing it in their leisure time and all.

 

Your rights extend only as far as the borders of mine, and what the majority wants is exactly the guiding principle of democracy.

 

You sound like a brainwashed kid to me.

 

In fact, you sound like me when I was 14.

 

I was wrong of course, and Gorgon is far and away correct. And what Gorgon is referring to is akin to a Bill of Rights.

 

I'm 24 and you sound like a person trying to justify and spread a habit most people question with good reason.

 

Especially in regards to psychedelics in which you withheld information while uncritically praising their supposed qualities.

That is propaganda for juveniles.

Unfortunately for you I had a particular interest in that type of drug so I extensively read up on the subject on everything from DMT to Mescaline.

The only conclusion a fair and sane person can deduce upon reading reports is that because of completely unforeseen consequences that entire group of drugs can give rise to, they should not be used or recommended to other people.

[Hurlshort]

My kid sister went through a few years of trouble with drugs. She was on the streets, in and out of rehab, and it was extremely difficult on our family. I don't even like to visit my hometown (Santa Cruz) because the drug culture is so rampant it angers me. She is doing great now, has a family and is happy.

 

But I can't imagine how that would have turned out if she was put in prison. The possibility was there, she was using hard stuff, hanging out with bad people. What worked for her was rehabilitation and treatment. It allowed her to right the ship.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Did that, in your opinion address the overall problem or was it just a solution that worked for her (and others like her)?

[Hurlshort]

Did that, in your opinion address the overall problem or was it just a solution that worked for her (and others like her)?

 

I know what you are getting at, but drugs are criminalized here, so has that really addressed the overall problem?

 

Again, I'm very much against drugs, including pot. But pot is something you can grow in your backyard, so criminalizing it is simply ineffective.

[Shryke]

Hearing you talk Gorgon it turns out their individual rights to shoot up, snort or otherwise imbibe whatever drugs they want and make life hell for everyone else, directly (their families, friends, bystanders) or indirectly (drug related and funded crime, disease, accidents etc.) somehow deserve to be protected and expanded yet ordinary people who just want that out of their streets should somehow shut up and suck it up.

 

That's not how it works. If we let every minority do what the hell it liked, we might as well legalize serial killers, terrorists, paedophilia lovers etc.

 

Cos they're doing it in their leisure time and all.

 

Your rights extend only as far as the borders of mine, and what the majority wants is exactly the guiding principle of democracy.

 

can you honestly say legal drugs aren't capable of the exact same thing?

 

people will always choose to spend their time/money on self fulfillment, be it drugs, shopping, drinking, gaming, etc etc

 

personally i feel that people should be more educated about their choices. you see young teenagers getting disgustingly drunk almost every friday/saturday night, because half of them feel that's what the norm is. a lot of them after a couple of years decide it isn't for them and cut back, or stop completely.

by the same token you sometimes see people partaking in illegal drugs also, be it out of curiosity, or because they feel like the social stigma is unfounded, or even just because they see it as a way of "rebelling"

 

i'm not trying to say drugs are good, but then i'm not trying to say they're bad either

i just don't believe that illegal drugs are the source of all the ills in society - people are

Edited June 16, 2011 by Shryke

[Humodour]

Hearing you talk Gorgon it turns out their individual rights to shoot up, snort or otherwise imbibe whatever drugs they want and make life hell for everyone else, directly (their families, friends, bystanders) or indirectly (drug related and funded crime, disease, accidents etc.) somehow deserve to be protected and expanded yet ordinary people who just want that out of their streets should somehow shut up and suck it up.

 

That's not how it works. If we let every minority do what the hell it liked, we might as well legalize serial killers, terrorists, paedophilia lovers etc.

 

Cos they're doing it in their leisure time and all.

 

Your rights extend only as far as the borders of mine, and what the majority wants is exactly the guiding principle of democracy.

 

You sound like a brainwashed kid to me.

 

In fact, you sound like me when I was 14.

 

I was wrong of course, and Gorgon is far and away correct. And what Gorgon is referring to is akin to a Bill of Rights.

 

I'm 24 and you sound like a person trying to justify and spread a habit most people question with good reason.

 

Especially in regards to psychedelics in which you withheld information while uncritically praising their supposed qualities.

That is propaganda for juveniles.

Unfortunately for you I had a particular interest in that type of drug so I extensively read up on the subject on everything from DMT to Mescaline.

The only conclusion a fair and sane person can deduce upon reading reports is that because of completely unforeseen consequences that entire group of drugs can give rise to, they should not be used or recommended to other people.

 

Ahhhh, now you sound like me at about 19.

 

Still wrong, of course.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Did that, in your opinion address the overall problem or was it just a solution that worked for her (and others like her)?

 

I know what you are getting at, but drugs are criminalized here, so has that really addressed the overall problem?

 

Again, I'm very much against drugs, including pot. But pot is something you can grow in your backyard, so criminalizing it is simply ineffective.

 

So what's your solution? Having them in every 24/7 shop next to regular cigarettes? Or freebie promo packages passed along with your daily bread in the supermarket?

I'm not saying its likely to happen, but if it becomes legal it could well be on its way to becoming a legal business and you can bet that corporate sharks will find a way to profit of it in the worst way imaginable.

 

I see how that might profit a few individuals, but how the overall good is served I honestly don't.

 

After all cigarettes are pure addictive poison, and for a long while their marketing and propaganda was such that practically everyone smoked.

 

 

@Shryke

 

I agree with everything you said, and drugs are certainly a part of the problem, not the only problem.

 

Yet I still fail to see what good legalization will be for the "ordinary" citizen. A compromise is only good if both sides get something, but I see only the users profiting from this.

[Gorgon]

Hearing you talk Gorgon it turns out their individual rights to shoot up, snort or otherwise imbibe whatever drugs they want and make life hell for everyone else, directly (their families, friends, bystanders) or indirectly (drug related and funded crime, disease, accidents etc.) somehow deserve to be protected and expanded yet ordinary people who just want that out of their streets should somehow shut up and suck it up.

 

That's not how it works. If we let every minority do what the hell it liked, we might as well legalize serial killers, terrorists, paedophilia lovers etc.

 

Cos they're doing it in their leisure time and all.

 

Your rights extend only as far as the borders of mine, and what the majority wants is exactly the guiding principle of democracy.

You don't seem to be able to differentiate between hard and soft drugs, it sort of removes a few layers of finesse from the discussion. There are plenty of good reasons why heroin shouldn't be legal, not so hash.

 

And no, what the majority wants is not the guiding principle of democracy. The majority get their way, unless it infringes on the civil rights of the minority, that's one reason they don't hang black folk in the South anymore. Just as a forinstance.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Gorgon

[Shryke]

@Shryke

 

I agree with everything you said, and drugs are certainly a part of the problem, not the only problem.

 

Yet I still fail to see what good legalization will be for the "ordinary" citizen. A compromise is only good if both sides get something, but I see only the users profiting from this.

 

personally i'm more in favour of decrimilisation rather than legalisation

 

because honestly, i feel that people are being villified and imprisoned for a rather minor offence. i've always found it incredibly moronic that someone can go out and get horribly drunk, smashing bottles in the street and generally being abusive, yet if they are sitting at home toking a joint somehow that's worse?

 

the "War on Drugs" is not working. it never has been, and it never will