Hell in Guatemala

[Drowsy Emperor]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/0...udy?INTCMP=SRCH Edited June 11, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Gorgon]

They should make an effort to see if any of the doctors were still alive, and have them dragged before the warcrimes tribunal like they still do with surviving Nazis.

[Hurlshort]

They should make an effort to see if any of the doctors were still alive, and have them dragged before the warcrimes tribunal like they still do with surviving Nazis.

 

Seriously, this is reprehensible. I'm surprised it took so long to get out as well.

[Humodour]

Jesus Christ. Just reminds you that America of the past was just the lesser of two evils.

 

I mean it's not really any different to the logic that killing tens of thousands of civilians in one go with nuclear bombs is a viable way to end a war. Killing civilians is a war crime, no? Then again, the Japanese were halfway through developing nuclear weapons themselves... oh god, imagine if they had of achieved them first... ****. Nevermind, ignore what I said. Go America!

[Walsingham]

It would be both naive and wrong to assume that Nazi notions of racial superiority were only present in Germany. Many scientists worldwide were seized with a manic fanatical belief that scientific progress was worth any price. Or at least that is how they justfied themselves. Personally I think individual failings are the ultimate component.

[WDeranged]

That's not a surprising story, as Wals said; the Germans weren't the only ones involved in this kind of stuff, in fact the Eugenics movement started in the UK.

[Volourn]

Very sickening. But, still silly for the US gov't of today to apoloigize for something they had no part in.

 

I guess I should apoloiguze for all my ancestors' evil deeds too.

 

Still, disgusting stuff.

[Orogun01]

I know of removing the native Australians, all involved with Eugenics. But we digress as I doubt that America's past exploitation of the south was racially motivated.

The Tuskegee experiments on the other hand...

[WDeranged]

Very sickening. But, still silly for the US gov't of today to apoloigize for something they had no part in.

 

I do agree with that, the modern trend of politicians earning bleeding heart brownie points for empty apologies is sickening, it borders on profiting from the original events.

[Hurlshort]

The Surgeon General of the US received regular reports on this whole thing when it was happening, so I would say the US government was involved and and apology was in order.

[Volourn]

The SG and the US gov't from decades ago. Unless youa re accusing Predisent Obama of being part of it?

 

It's like the ridiculousness of demanding the US president of today to apologize for slavery from centuries ago. LMAO

[Guard Dog]

The United States as an institution has existed continuously since 1776. While Volo is correct, the politicians of today are not culpable for the crimes of predecessors they should be aware that evil done in the name of the US still must be atoned for even if it was done by those long gone. I am disgusted by this story, I don't know how I missed but I had never heard it before. An apology and acknowledgement is the least of what is appropriate here. Every survivor and their affected decendants should be compensated.

 

The history of the US is not snow white and clean. No nation state on earth can be said not to have done evil in it's own interests at some point. Remember, the US did not go out and kidnap these people, they were sold as lab rats by their own government. As black as our crime is, theirs is as bad or worse.

[Orogun01]

The history of the US is not snow white and clean. No nation state on earth can be said not to have done evil in it's own interests at some point. Remember, the US did not go out and kidnap these people, they were sold as lab rats by their own government. As black as our crime is, theirs is as bad or worse.

I would put the story of Saint George and the dragon as a parable to this situation. They were sold by their governments but can you say without doubt that they weren't coerced into it?

[Guard Dog]

The history of the US is not snow white and clean. No nation state on earth can be said not to have done evil in it's own interests at some point. Remember, the US did not go out and kidnap these people, they were sold as lab rats by their own government. As black as our crime is, theirs is as bad or worse.

I would put the story of Saint George and the dragon as a parable to this situation. They were sold by their governments but can you say without doubt that they weren't coerced into it?

You of all people have in idea of what life is like in a place where people have no rights and suffer the predations and whims of their government. I don't know who is more despicable, the Guatemalan official who accepted the deal, of the US official who arranged it. Actually I could say the same thing about slavery in pre-civil war America. Who was worse, the slavers who captured and sold the slaves or the country that allowed them to be purchased and worked to death? I could not say.

[Orogun01]

You of all people have in idea of what life is like in a place where people have no rights and suffer the predations and whims of their government. I don't know who is more despicable, the Guatemalan official who accepted the deal, of the US official who arranged it. Actually I could say the same thing about slavery in pre-civil war America. Who was worse, the slavers who captured and sold the slaves or the country that allowed them to be purchased and worked to death? I could not say.

And because of that I know that they could had refused, which tells me that they were either complicit or threatened. Although considering the situation in Guatemala it would be the former. Although I wouldn't be so quick to to draw analogies to slavery, since at the time of these experiments people weren't considered property and they were well aware that what they were doing was immoral.

 

What's worse to me isn't just their willingness to infect humans with lethal diseases but the amount that they infected.

[Walsingham]

I hope this willl make it pretty clear.

 

I am not required to apologise for anything my dad has done.

 

I am not required to apologise for anything my grandfather did.

 

Why should I be required to apologise for something someone older than my grandfather, who I have almost no blood connection to, did?

[Gorgon]

I would say it's pretty straight forward that the US is worse than the Guatemalan goverment for creating a demand for human subjects. It's also beside the point, they are both wrong, and have no exuse for their actions whatsoever.

 

This is really about how bad the military industrial complex can get out of hand. it's a story that is repeated on neuclear test sites and base locations across asia where the populace was displaced, basically kicked out of their homes with no compensation, or deliberately conned into signing their rights away because the US needed the space.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Gorgon