Namutree Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 To the original poster- Iraq is no joke. It was a poorly made strategic decision by an out-of-control government that has betrayed it's founding ideals in favor of foreign entanglements. Things like this happen when the US doesn't just mind it's own business. 1 "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Things like that happen even when the US does. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Things like that happen even when the US does. But isn't the US responsible for all bad in the world? 1 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Things like that happen even when the US does. But isn't the US responsible for all bad in the world? According to the majority of my exes, it's the USA and me. 2 "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/world/meast/iraq-mosul-dam/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 if true, is incredibly good news. am amazed at just how little press the mosul dam(n) situation has received given that we are talking o' potential biblical scope harm resulting from simple negligence in maintaining the facility, much less intentional destruction. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/world/meast/iraq-mosul-dam/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 if true, is incredibly good news. am amazed at just how little press the mosul dam(n) situation has received given that we are talking o' potential biblical scope harm resulting from simple negligence in maintaining the facility, much less intentional destruction. HA! Good Fun! it's not surprising really. ISIS was doomed from it's inception. The only question for me is how long until they go into hiding like the powerless vermin they are. Edited August 18, 2014 by Namutree "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. 1 "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. Winston Churchill had at one point said: You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. I am however kind of concerned that IS will wind up chaining women and children to artillery pieces in an effort to put a stop to the "death from above." Edited August 19, 2014 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. I've also maintained this sentiment, the West can be the "heroes " in various conflicts if it avoids boots on the ground ( in other words get the opposing rebel force to do the ground fighting ), tries to minimize civilian casualties ( sometimes this can't be avoided ) and mustn't been seen as an occupying force once the conflict is over. This is the best way to implement regime change or when the West feels the need to intervene in a particular crisis 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. Your impression that we are heroes now is merely an illusion. Obama's foreign policy isn't very different from any of the previous administrations. There have been tactical shifts, but the overall objectives are the same as ever. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I am however kind of concerned that IS will wind up chaining women and children to artillery pieces in an effort to put a stop to the "death from above." They won't do that. Sunni radicals tend to be pretty bold on a battlefield. They'll hold their ground for a short while, and once beaten they'll try to withdraw. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 ISIS does represent something very important for the Middle East. Once ISIS is defeated (Which will be soon) it will be a symbol for the futility of attempting to restore the Islamic caliphate. Thankfully for the world; ISIS managed to get a lot of naive Islamist to come out of hiding and show themselves. It will make their defeat quicker, easier, and more definitive. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I am however kind of concerned that IS will wind up chaining women and children to artillery pieces in an effort to put a stop to the "death from above." I hope they are not reading these forums then, let's not give them any ideas! Your impression that we are heroes now is merely an illusion. Obama's foreign policy isn't very different from any of the previous administrations. There have been tactical shifts, but the overall objectives are the same as ever. Still, it's actions that matters, not "real objectives". I'm sure there are powerful lobby groups sitting in DC, gnawing their fingernails in frustration that the public won't support their latest inane plot to squander public funds for their gain. Let's just keep this current political climate up, and let's not forget how awful things can be. Of course Obama is not a genius or a saint, but he is a lot better on foreign politics than many alternatives. "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Only good thing about ISIS: they're draining the West off some extremist sleeper scum. Edited August 19, 2014 by HoonDing 2 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. Your impression that we are heroes now is merely an illusion. Obama's foreign policy isn't very different from any of the previous administrations. There have been tactical shifts, but the overall objectives are the same as ever. Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. Your impression that we are heroes now is merely an illusion. Obama's foreign policy isn't very different from any of the previous administrations. There have been tactical shifts, but the overall objectives are the same as ever. It amazes me that people think that the Obama foreign policy has been the same as his predecessors, especially around military intervention. Obama despite the accusations is not a warmonger, in fact he has been very diligent in ensuring that the USA does not get involved in complicated and protracted wars. A couple of points to support this He got USA troops out if Iraq and has set deadline for Afghanistan He avoided bombing or going to war with Iran despite internal pressure from within the congress and Israel He avoided having to attack Syria despite the fact Assad "crossed the line by using chemical weapons" He has used drones in regions like Pakistan and Yemen where certain punitive military steps had to be taken but he didn't send special forces in He has adhered to the votes by the UN security council around vetoes, his predecessor ignored the vetoes by the UN security council and acted militarily He has sent numerous groups of military advisors to various countries that requested USA military intervention. This is not the same as sending in ground troops, examples of this include Nigeria and current situation in Iraq Obama has taken a far less belligerent approach for the USA and its previous view of " if you aren't with us you are against us" He should get some credit and recognition for this "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 He got USA troops out if Iraq and has set deadline for Afghanistan The date in which the troops in Iraq left was a date negotiated by the Bush administration. Not that leaving Iraq at that point meant much as most of our troops had already left. As for Afghanistan; Obama escalated the war there. Also, setting a timeline for leaving isn't truly meaningful. He avoided bombing or going to war with Iran despite internal pressure from within the congress and Israel There was no united effort from congress pushing for war with Iran. Considering all previous administrations have managed to not go to war with Iran makes Obama exactly the same as his predecessors in this regard. If it's any consolation; Obama did levy sanctions against Iran which is an act of war. I could go on and counter each point, but it would be too much effort. Suffice to say that in truth; the biggest difference between Obama and Bush is presentation. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. You think the US is popular in the world now? You must be watching different news sources than I am. I'm getting the distinct impression most other nations think us weak and indecisive. So we went from being overbearing and a bully to weak and indecisive. The former is really bad and the latter is not an improvement. Personally I think North and South America should draw a line down the Atlantic east of Brazil and west of Guam and tell the rest of the world this is our side, that is yours. But since I'm not in charge of anything I'd settle to a Pre-WW2 stance of non-interventionism. 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Personally I think North and South America should draw a line down the Atlantic east of Brazil and west of Guam and tell the rest of the world this is our side, that is yours. But since I'm not in charge of anything I'd settle to a Pre-WW2 stance of non-interventionism. It is kind of interesting how our policy in WW1/WW2 worked super well for us, and then we never did it again. Oh well. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Personally I think North and South America should draw a line down the Atlantic east of Brazil and west of Guam and tell the rest of the world this is our side, that is yours. But since I'm not in charge of anything I'd settle to a Pre-WW2 stance of non-interventionism. No, just keep bombing, guys. So we don't have to. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Personally I think North and South America should draw a line down the Atlantic east of Brazil and west of Guam and tell the rest of the world this is our side, that is yours. But since I'm not in charge of anything I'd settle to a Pre-WW2 stance of non-interventionism. It is kind of interesting how our policy in WW1/WW2 worked super well for us, and then we never did it again. Oh well. That has more to do with the shift in philosophy brought on by FDR than any change in attitude in the US. The moment the US government became a partner in businesses is the moment it had a stake in the future success of a business. With a few exceptions all of our post WW2 foreign entanglements have been more about money than the stated goals. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 You think the US is popular in the world now? You must be watching different news sources than I am. I'm getting the distinct impression most other nations think us weak and indecisive. So we went from being overbearing and a bully to weak and indecisive. The former is really bad and the latter is not an improvement. It's because those are American news sources, and likely conservative ones as well. Of course they are saying that America is "weak and indecisive". Of course they give air time whenever they can find a foreigner who thinks that. You know, I know for sure I've been hearing that all the time from Americans themselves, and never from anybody else. In reality, you have gone from overbearing to pretty much ideally concerned, considering the circumstances. But people never say anything when all is good. People are only interested in complaining when things are bad. Personally I think North and South America should draw a line down the Atlantic east of Brazil and west of Guam and tell the rest of the world this is our side, that is yours. But since I'm not in charge of anything I'd settle to a Pre-WW2 stance of non-interventionism. The entire world is interconnected, you know. For good or bad. If the US had not entered or taken a stance in WW2 they would likely have been left in a situation where Nazi Germany had nukes, but not the US, an entire Europe occupied by Nazism and Fascism, Russia a puppet state or a no-man's land, and a similar mess in Asia. This would not mean a bright future for a liberal US, I can tell you that. It's better to amputate before you get gangrene, better to put the fire out when it's small. It's all about finding the right balance. Balance in all things, like they say. It's not about being a "isolationist" or an "interventionist", it's about finding the right balance between the two, considering the current circumstances. 1 "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 If the US had not entered or taken a stance in WW2 they would likely have been left in a situation where Nazi Germany had nukes, but not the US, an entire Europe occupied by Nazism and Fascism, Russia a puppet state or a no-man's land, and a similar mess in Asia. This would not mean a bright future for a liberal US, I can tell you that. It's better to amputate before you get gangrene, better to put the fire out when it's small. It's all about finding the right balance. Balance in all things, like they say. It's not about being a "isolationist" or an "interventionist", it's about finding the right balance between the two, considering the current circumstances. We could debate that, but we'd need a new thread. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) It's all about finding the right balance. Balance in all things, like they say. It's not about being a "isolationist" or an "interventionist", it's about finding the right balance between the two, considering the current circumstances. The US would also most certainly feel it if Iran decided to close the Strait of Hormuz and if pirates and rogue state navies ran rampant, causing insurance rates on merchant shipping to skyrocket and drive up the costs of goods, to name just two good examples of how the US suddenly seceding from the rest of the world would be counter-productive to American interests. Edited August 19, 2014 by Agiel 1 Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 It's all about finding the right balance. Balance in all things, like they say. It's not about being a "isolationist" or an "interventionist", it's about finding the right balance between the two, considering the current circumstances. The US would also most certainly feel it if Iran decided to close the Strait of Hormuz and if pirates and rogue state navies ran rampant, causing insurance rates on merchant shipping to skyrocket and drive up the costs of goods, to name just two good examples of how the US suddenly seceding from the rest of the world would be counter-productive to American interests. I'm not advocating a "See ya later losers!" without a moments notice. If we were to just leave the world stage on a whim it would cause more than a little chaos. I'd rather we simply not make any future commitment while still honoring the commitments we've made. Let the world get acclimated to our declining presence. While it is true that our interventionist policy has some perks; it comes with many severe costs that outweigh them. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Finally under Obama America has gone back to being heroes, well, it was long overdue. 50 or 60 years of mostly idiotic interventions had to lead to somewhere. I guess they felt the need to spend that WW2 karma capital somewhere. In order to keep things that way: Stick to drones and airstrikes and military advisers. Don't ever target populated areas. Keep it that way and I'm sure you can ride this wave of popularity to the end. You think the US is popular in the world now? You must be watching different news sources than I am. I'm getting the distinct impression most other nations think us weak and indecisive. So we went from being overbearing and a bully to weak and indecisive. The former is really bad and the latter is not an improvement. Personally I think North and South America should draw a line down the Atlantic east of Brazil and west of Guam and tell the rest of the world this is our side, that is yours. But since I'm not in charge of anything I'd settle to a Pre-WW2 stance of non-interventionism. You see this is where I think there is a misperception from people who live in America and how the world sees the USA now under Obama and how they viewed the USA under Bush, there is a vast and more positive difference Firstly there will always USA haters, no matter what the USA does this perception won't change. I am not talking about them. But you can ask any member on these forums about what most of the world thought about the USA and its foreign policy decisions during the Bush era, it was generally bad. Some of this criticism was justified and some wasn't but for the majority of people outside the USA they considered the USA a country that just wanted to bomb and invade any country that it had any disagreement with. Plus there was the whole Iraq invasion and the false reasons we were given to justify that invasion I will maintain that Obama has done loads to improve the perception around the world for the USA and the role that the USA can play in military intervention. Has he been perfect? Of course not but what president is "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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