The beginning of the end of specialist retailers?

[Nightshape]

If I happen to find out some legitimate reason... It may just be over-pricing, which sucks.

[Volourn]

"I really do hate it when people are so adverse to change, especially when they appear to be reasonable people. "

 

You do realize that change isn't always good right? Only unreasoanble think that all chanbge is inherently great. Just ask Detroiters if the changes they've witnessed in their once great city is awesome.

[Thorton_AP]

As the degradation of Detroit been a result of people resisting the changes to their city and not adapting to them appropriately?

[Zoraptor]

It is just gouging, plain and simple. I can import games from the UK one at a time via courier and it'd still cost only 2/3 the price I'd pay here and we're far better off the the Australians are by the sounds of it. Another reason why I loathe Steamworks since Steam is more than happy to shaft people with ludicrous regional pricing whereas I can still go to Gamersgate and buy Bioshock 2 (2k; CiV) and Fallout 3 (Beth; FONV) for exactly the same price as an American can.

 

The Kiwis are worse off and just had a GST hike.

Gotta make sure those horrible poor people get suitably punished for buying frivolities like food and clothing.

 

We did get an income tax cut as well, though it's only any use if you already had disposable income.

[Majek]

How much do servers for DD cost?

[Thorton_AP]

Gotta make sure those horrible poor people get suitably punished for buying frivolities like food and clothing.

 

We did get an income tax cut as well, though it's only any use if you already had disposable income.

 

 

That sucks. GST in Canada doesn't apply to food (and I think some clothing but I'm not 100% sure) unless you're at a restaurant.

[Zoraptor]

It's basically the same in the UK and Aus so far as food is concerned. Apparently it's too hard to do here because we're unique snowflakes.

[Humodour]

What are sales like in Australia? This is the type of thing where the costs will go down only when those people decide to stop buying the games at their released price.

 

What's taxation like in Australia?

 

Most of Europe gets a 15-25% price hike just from VAT, though. Not saying we aren't shafted, but that's a part of the equation, too...

 

As others have already covered, GST is 10%, excluding basic food commodities. It's a horrible regressive tax system introduced by Australia's most conservative government in a long time.

 

The highest income tax bracket here is over $180,000 which is about $54,000 tax (30%) plus 45% of every dollar over $180,000. Not many people pay much over 30% tax.

 

There's also the universal healthcare levy which is 1.5% of income, or 2.5% if you earn over $70,000 and have no private healthcare.

 

Edit: That steamprice site is awesome.

 

There's a few reasons Steam is more expensive in Australia, and I think unfortunately the most prominent one is simply Australians can afford it. Publishers can hike the prices without risk of decreased sales here. Altogether fees, shipping, and GST account for maybe a 20% price increase. Not 50% to 100%. ****.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Krezack

[Humodour]

WHAT THE ****.

 

Fallout: NV just increased to $90 AUD ($87 USD) on Steam. Nope, **** that ****, I'm not buying it. Tell your publisher to **** off, Obisidan.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Krezack

[Nightshape]

Honestly, that's ridiculious.

[Monte Carlo]

Like I was saying, Steam is evil, all of you this-is-the-future moonbats.

[Humodour]

Like I was saying, Steam is evil, all of you this-is-the-future moonbats.

 

It's not Steam that does it. It's individual publishers.

[Nepenthe]

Like I was saying, Steam is evil, all of you this-is-the-future moonbats.

 

It's not Steam that does it. It's individual publishers.

 

... If Steam doesn't have control over how the products are priced, then they are already at a serious disadvantage when compared to other retailers.

 

Looks like Steam is locked to MSRP in most, if not all cases.

[Gorgon]

WHAT THE ****.

 

Fallout: NV just increased to $90 AUD ($87 USD) on Steam. Nope, **** that ****, I'm not buying it. Tell your publisher to **** off, Obisidan.

Well prices on steam don't reflect those in stores for various nefarious reasons already mentioned. Just wait for the CDs, they will cost the same as everything else. It's the same reason DVD and Blue Ray region coding exists, so they can charge more where they can get away with it. Only with steam they can actually effectively deny parallel imports.

 

If it wasn't the private sector doing it people would be calling it a Socialist conspiracy.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Gorgon

[Nepenthe]

Well prices on steam don't reflect those in stores for various nefarious reasons already mentioned. Just wait for the CDs, they will cost the same as everything else. It's the same reason DVD and Blue Ray region coding exists, so they can charge more where they can get away with it. Only with steam they can actually effectively deny parallel imports.

 

In fairness, the studios have been a lot more liberal with blu-ray region coding (or the lack of it) than with DVD. I have 100+ BD movies, and probably less than 5* of those are region locked (ok - I admit, some of the ~95 multiregion ones might just be A+B). You mostly see it with indie movies, where the distribution rights are actually geographically divided. Sure, some studios lock titles just for the hell of it, but the studios are apparently seeing the wisdom of giving hardcore hobbyists (which is what BD buyers essentially are) an option to get the product legally...

 

 

 

*I can only think of three off the top of my head: Casino Royale, Boondock Saints and U-571.

[Thorton_AP]

Like I was saying, Steam is evil, all of you this-is-the-future moonbats.

 

It's not Steam that does it. It's individual publishers.

 

... If Steam doesn't have control over how the products are priced, then they are already at a serious disadvantage when compared to other retailers.

 

Looks like Steam is locked to MSRP in most, if not all cases.

 

 

Steam is a distribution service. Online is very different than brick and mortar. The thing about Steam is that publishers can sell the game for what they want, and Steam takes a cut of it. I think it'd be very bad if Steam did not allow individual publishers to have this type of control over their pricing.

[Tale]

In general, prices on Steam have to be in-line (if not more expensive) than brick and mortar. It kind of depends on how much influence the brick and mortar can exert. Gamestop, for example, is still responsible for over half the TV ads for video games in the US. If you piss them off, ouch.

 

Did you ever see a Mass Effect 2 TV ad that wasn't about the Gamestop pre-order bonus? The Halo Reach Gamestop ad showed more often than the Microsoft ones. New Call of Duty Black Ops commercials, I've seen the Gamestop pre-order advertisement at least 5 times. "This is Tier 1" non-affiliated ad I've seen once.

 

The Fable 3 Gamestop ads are making their rounds, now. I know more about that blasted sword than I do the rest of the game.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Tale

[Zoraptor]

Steam is a distribution service. Online is very different than brick and mortar. The thing about Steam is that publishers can sell the game for what they want, and Steam takes a cut of it. I think it'd be very bad if Steam did not allow individual publishers to have this type of control over their pricing.

I'm not so convinced it's entirely the fault of eeeevvviilll publishers, personally- I suspect Steam makes a good deal of extra cash from the arrangement.

 

As I posted previously:

 

Fallout 3 (Bethesda) purchaseable for 50USD. FONV (Bethesda, Steamworks) purchaseable for 90USD

Bioshock 2 (2k) purchaseable for 50USD. CiV (2k, Steamworks) purchaseable for 80USD.

 

I'm pretty sure the same transition happened with THQ (certainly there is from Stalker: SoC to now but I don't know what their first Steamworked game- SR2, iirc- was sold for initially as it didn't interest me) as well but don't have a direct way to check

 

It certainly could be coincidence that the Steamworks -> Ludicrous Localised Pricing transition happened at the same time but it certainly seems that Steam is at the least happy to and complicit in putting the prices that high. Kind of like a drug dealer blaming the Taleban for the price of heroin, if a somewhat extreme parallel is permitted.

[Tale]

Steam is a distribution service. Online is very different than brick and mortar. The thing about Steam is that publishers can sell the game for what they want, and Steam takes a cut of it. I think it'd be very bad if Steam did not allow individual publishers to have this type of control over their pricing.

I'm not so convinced it's entirely the fault of eeeevvviilll publishers, personally- I suspect Steam makes a good deal of extra cash from the arrangement.

 

As I posted previously:

 

Fallout 3 (Bethesda) purchaseable for 50USD. FONV (Bethesda, Steamworks) purchaseable for 90USD

Bioshock 2 (2k) purchaseable for 50USD. CiV (2k, Steamworks) purchaseable for 80USD.

 

I'm pretty sure the same transition happened with THQ (certainly there is from Stalker: SoC to now but I don't know what their first Steamworked game- SR2, iirc- was sold for initially as it didn't interest me) as well but don't have a direct way to check

 

It certainly could be coincidence that the Steamworks -> Ludicrous Localised Pricing transition happened at the same time but it certainly seems that Steam is at the least happy to and complicit in putting the prices that high. Kind of like a drug dealer blaming the Taleban for the price of heroin, if a somewhat extreme parallel is permitted.

 

[Zoraptor]

I hate the Correlation != Causation canard as it's just about the most abused bon mots on the internet, which is really saying something. Because the fact that in some cases correlation == causation if the absolute foundation of observational science.

 

Also, you are not Purkake.

[Thorton_AP]

Steam is a distribution service. Online is very different than brick and mortar. The thing about Steam is that publishers can sell the game for what they want, and Steam takes a cut of it. I think it'd be very bad if Steam did not allow individual publishers to have this type of control over their pricing.

I'm not so convinced it's entirely the fault of eeeevvviilll publishers, personally- I suspect Steam makes a good deal of extra cash from the arrangement.

 

 

 

Given that it's probably a % cut, I'm sure Steam doesn't mind a whole lot either. I'd just be very surprised if publishers were giving games to Steam and the Steam decides to price them at uncompetitive prices.

 

I'm a fanboi though so take that what you will.

 

 

I hate the Correlation != Causation canard as it's just about the most abused bon mots on the internet, which is really saying something. Because the fact that in some cases correlation == causation if the absolute foundation of observational science.

 

Causation is just a correlation controlled for all other variables enough to conclude causation (i.e. I agree with you haha)

Edited October 4, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[Purkake]

Like I was saying, Steam is evil, all of you this-is-the-future moonbats.

Keep the Mi-Go out of this.

[HoonDing]

I forgot how much I hate xkcd.

 

But do carry on.

[Tale]

I hate the Correlation != Causation canard as it's just about the most abused bon mots on the internet, which is really saying something. Because the fact that in some cases correlation == causation if the absolute foundation of observational science.

For complex observational sciences like astronomy or the like, they work on robust theoretical and predictive frameworks that include numerous observations and experiments where possible. Well better than "I saw these two things" which is simply ludicrous to draw conclusions from.

 

Trying to conclude that Steamworks causes increased prices because it happened to two games released around the same time is not Astronomy.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Tale

[Zoraptor]

If I had been arguing it as some sort of scientifically verifiable proof you might have a point, possibly, and if were not for the fact that those two companies represent a third of the large publishers in existence, half if you include THQ. Which is by any measure a significant proportion albeit in a small sample size, and also represents 100% of those publishers which have switched to Steamworks exclusively. So yeah, not really equivalent to Lack_of_Pirates_causes_Global_Warming.jpg in the woolly thinking stakes.

 

(Scientifically speaking that's nothing like astronomy, though most of it's early advances came form people just looking at correlations and most of the theory followed from their interpretation, but is statistically based science.)

 

But still, it's irrelevant as it was never presented as any sort of proof of anything other than that Steam probably isn't wailing and gnashing their teeth about the horrible injustice of it all as they stand to make money from the increased costs.