Wikileaks founder framed for rape?

[Walsingham]

Don't blame me, I didn't do it.

 

 

I personally think it's a mistake to confuse the Talibs with the mujahideen. Just for staretrs, many of the Talibs today weren't even alive when the Soviets left.

 

No, but the infra (training camps, operations manual) was built with Operation Cyclone.*

 

Kind of like Saddam's forces were built with the U.S. aid during the Iraq-Iran war.

 

 

The big difference being that the US didn't arm Saddam. Russia, China and France armed Saddam. A point I've belaboured numerous times. But which I think is relevant to this discussion because it illustrates exactly how responsibly members of our democracy treat their opinions.

[Nepenthe]

The big difference being that the US didn't arm Saddam. Russia, China and France armed Saddam. A point I've belaboured numerous times. But which I think is relevant to this discussion because it illustrates exactly how responsibly members of our democracy treat their opinions.

I know it's only wikipedia, but this article actually seems well-documented enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...2%80%93Iraq_war

 

The British article is a lot less... informative.

[Nepenthe]

I guess by that logic we shouldn't have helped the Soviets against the nazis either.

 

No, you shouldn't have - we were the ones who got the collateral damage from that op.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I guess by that logic we shouldn't have helped the Soviets against the nazis either.

 

No, you shouldn't have - we were the ones who got the collateral damage from that op.

You pick your bed and you sleep in it.

[Humodour]

I'm not sure if that last dig was at me, since I don't work in PR, I'm not in Washington, and I hate latte. I only suspect it was pointed at me because you called me a cretin.

 

I'm also not sure if you understood my point about the information being freely known in Afghanistan. My point was that any journalist in country would know about the civilian casualties. Something you can tell for yourself by looking at any big newsfeed and checking to see how many stories about astray missiles, convoys getting hit etc you see.

 

The real story regarding civilian casualties is that insurgents cause the vast majority. Nearly 75%, according to the UN, and rising. Where the **** is that story?

 

In any case, I'd love to hear your actual rejoinder on the direct victims of this leak - the persons and families who are fighting the Taliban in Afghan.

 

SOMETIMES WEB ADDRESS EXPIRE

[Nepenthe]

I guess by that logic we shouldn't have helped the Soviets against the nazis either.

 

No, you shouldn't have - we were the ones who got the collateral damage from that op.

You pick your bed and you sleep in it.

 

... what?

[Wrath of Dagon]

You reap what you sow.

[Nepenthe]

You reap what you sow.

 

I understand the metaphor, it's just that your comment doesn't really make sense in the context. But I don't really have the time (or, in your particular case the inclination) to educate you on the finer details of WWII in the Nordic countries. Let's just say that there was very little choice involved.

[Gorth]

You reap what you sow.

 

I understand the metaphor, it's just that your comment doesn't really make sense in the context. But I don't really have the time (or, in your particular case the inclination) to educate you on the finer details of WWII in the Nordic countries. Let's just say that there was very little choice involved.

I think he is trying to say it's your own fault for not surrendering unconditionally to the commies, because that is what a good american like himself would have done?

[Wrath of Dagon]

You reap what you sow.

 

I understand the metaphor, it's just that your comment doesn't really make sense in the context. But I don't really have the time (or, in your particular case the inclination) to educate you on the finer details of WWII in the Nordic countries. Let's just say that there was very little choice involved.

So you're saying Finland had no choice but to ally with the Germans? Then why didn't they advance beyond their own territory? I'd say you guys helped the Soviets as much as the allies.

 

or, in your particular case the inclination

Just can't do without the insults, huh?

[Thorton_AP]

You reap what you sow.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Explain. Did I insult him in any way?

[Humodour]

Perhaps you insulted his intelligence by getting him to read your posts.

[Wrath of Dagon]

What a prick you are, Krezack.

[Humodour]

Haha. I have my moments.

[lord of flies]

It was one thing for Finland to defend itself against the Soviet Union in the Winter War. It was another thing to align itself with fascism and invade the Soviet Union, thus tacitly supporting the mass slaughters of the Germans. Don't try to equivocate the two just because you have to rewrite history so that your nation always did the right thing. Every single time a nation attempted to make a deal with the fascists, they got ****ed. Do you think you should get special compensation for the consequences of your behavior just because you're Nordic?

[Nepenthe]

It was one thing for Finland to defend itself against the Soviet Union in the Winter War. It was another thing to align itself with fascism and invade the Soviet Union, thus tacitly supporting the mass slaughters of the Germans. Don't try to equivocate the two just because you have to rewrite history so that your nation always did the right thing. Every single time a nation attempted to make a deal with the fascists, they got ****ed. Do you think you should get special compensation for the consequences of your behavior just because you're Nordic?

 

No. Everybody else got special compensation (Marshall aid). We didn't.

 

Even with the perfect vision of hindsight, I can't really say if there was an alternative to the post-Moscow Peace Treaty alliance with the Germans that still would have allowed us to maintain our independence. There were no good alternatives, and I believe most people were aware of it already back then.

 

And re: insults. Read it the way you want, my assessment is that our opinions would continue to differ no matter how much effort I put into the discussion, so I won't put any.

[Meshugger]

It was one thing for Finland to defend itself against the Soviet Union in the Winter War. It was another thing to align itself with fascism and invade the Soviet Union, thus tacitly supporting the mass slaughters of the Germans. Don't try to equivocate the two just because you have to rewrite history so that your nation always did the right thing. Every single time a nation attempted to make a deal with the fascists, they got ****ed. Do you think you should get special compensation for the consequences of your behavior just because you're Nordic?

 

No talked about doing the "right" thing. It was a desperate move the ensure sovereignity of the finnish state. It has never been celebrated in any way in Finland.

[Maria Caliban]

There was a recent Finnish statistic, according to which 20 % of rape charges were proven to be made up by the putative victims. And this is based on those that can be proven to be false, there's always the middle ground where you don't have the evidence either way... Sick.

 

If it makes you feel better, the reason that false rape accusations are so high is because actual rape is very low in Finland. That's not the case in the US or Canada where sexual assult is far more common.

[Wrath of Dagon]

No talked about doing the "right" thing. It was a desperate move the ensure sovereignity of the finnish state. It has never been celebrated in any way in Finland.

How so? Was Germany about to invade Finland? Was there any indication the Soviets would break the peace treaty?

 

The Soviet Union didn't get any Marshall aid either. Neither did any East European country. Obviously Finland had no choice but to sign the friendship treaty with SU after the war, but at that point the West no longer considered it an ally, that's just the reality of it.

 

Edit: Also Marshall aid wasn't "compensation". US certainly didn't owe anything to anyone. It was an attempt to rebuild Western Europe, because that was considered to be in US interest.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[Nepenthe]

The Soviet Union didn't get any Marshall aid either. Neither did any East European country. Obviously Finland had no choice but to sign the friendship treaty with SU after the war, but at that point the West no longer considered it an ally, that's just the reality of it.

 

They did get our war reparations. All of them. Nobody else paid theirs.

[Walsingham]

Never let it be said that I am afraid of being wrong (although it's still only one view)

 

From BBC today:

 

A former British commander in Afghanistan, Colonel Richard Kemp, told the Today programme on BBC Radio 4: "We sometimes underestimate the Taliban's sophistication (and) intelligence-collection capability, and they are very, very good at it."

 

The Taliban had "sources in many places", he said, including within the Afghan security forces and "even in military bases".

 

EDIT: Thanks for the link about the US support on Wiki. It's not a daft case, but I believe it can be substantially attacked. Just not on a Friday night when I'm overdue down the pub.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Walsingham

[Wrath of Dagon]

Don't forget our ally Pakistan's ISI, the best resource of all.

[Thorton_AP]

Explain. Did I insult him in any way?

 

If you really want to know I can PM you.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

The case was reopened.