What

[Nightshape]

I found this and I thought I would share it as it mirror's alot of what I've been banging on about when talking about the future of the games industry and distribution methods etc...

 

Anyways

 

 

 

Discuss..

[Volourn]

I clicked on the link and the title read 'Video Games Are dead', rolled my eyes nearly killing myself, and exited out it. Anything with that title is plainly bullcrap to be laughed at and ridiculed not to be takens eriously. In fact, even posting in this thread is too much effort in the face of such a laughable premise.

[Purkake]

The situation:

 

[Nightshape]

I clicked on the link and the title read 'Video Games Are dead', rolled my eyes nearly killing myself, and exited out it. Anything with that title is plainly bullcrap to be laughed at and ridiculed not to be takens eriously. In fact, even posting in this thread is too much effort in the face of such a laughable premise.

 

[kirottu]

Picture insults are too old. Please stop using them.

 

Edit: if you want to insult someone, try to come up something witty and insulting instead of posting a pic of someone else being witty five years ago.

Edited August 3, 2010 by kirottu

[Purkake]

I hope no one missed the highly metaphoric meaning of my two gifs. The HD consoles are in a downward spiral of ever-increasing budgets while Nintendo makes money hand over fist with low budget games by concentrating on a larger and less petty audience.

[Orogun01]

Seems like most of the comments where spot on.

[Nightshape]

Picture insults are too old. Please stop using them.

 

Edit: if you want to insult someone, try to come up something witty and insulting instead of posting a pic of someone else being witty five years ago.

 

 

Okay... Point taken, you're Finnish, so I'll stop doing it.

 

Honestly though, Volo isn't worth more than a google search for a picture.

 

So, I post a link to a bunch of interviews with industry professionals etc... Detailing their thoughts on the industry, everyone comes back and says "This is retarded".

 

*sigh* I give up. Let ignorance run amok.

 

FML

[Purkake]

Welcome to the internet.

 

Enjoy your stay!

 

 

I'm sure GAF already has a 30 page thread on these videos

 

[Tigranes]

I'll have a listen then comment. Just need to wait 36 years for my internet to load youtube.

 

edit: Seems to confirm a lot of things i've read elsewhere and suspected. Just a thought though - and bear with me, because this is not gonna come out the way I mean it: I think a lot of times when we have industry people coming in and talking about the future like this, they end up giving fairly abstracted theories that are derived from a mix of their personal philosophies/grievances/etc, specific situations they're in or they've seen, and such. I'm not saying they're blindsided or raging or anything like that, but my point is when they tell me, essentially, things are ****ed up right now and they're bound to change soon, I can't really commit to that.

 

Rather, my suspicions are - things are screwed up right now, but there's a good chance they'll just chug along like that for a good while longer. A few things will change - we might see some changes in the DRM landscape or the various pricing models, or even the way the next-gen hardware are designed & the infrastructure around them, but maybe not, say, the way publisher-developer relationships work, the way they fund certain games and certain styles, the bloated way the marketing is going, the employee treatment. I think in particular, the types of games that get funded, hyped, reviewed well and sell well, the blockbuster process, is very very set in stone at the moment and may not change for decades. The technological fetishism may slow down significantly (Wii isn't really proof, but a precursor) as the core demographics gradually shift out of the computer-literate, but with shifts to more persistent models of production & revenue pumping the investment of people and $ required may not downgrade overmuch.

 

Make no mistake, I recognise that there are some major changes happening to the landscape of the products available, we're getting some good infrastructure set up for handhelds, download games, DLCs, etc., and it changes things. But... well, yeah, the whole "is the industry dying / going for a massive fundamental rehaul" bit is probably a little bit of sensationalism on the part of the video makers.

 

I do think one of the areas in which gaming could change that is very hard to predict is its current embracement of social media. Gaming's already built up its own, very vibrant, very complex, social infrastructure for those who wanted to talk about their games, mod games, play together, etc. That's not the type of change you're getting here. In what way is gaming going to accommodate the social media stuff it's sticking on to itself?

[vault_overseer]

OH god, what a load of sensationalist crap. Was it co-produced by Fox News? Shocking articles on the background, porn grade music, fast cutting between interviewees. This is bad journalism.

[Thorton_AP]

I'm curious why the named it "Video games are dead" though.

[vault_overseer]

sensationalism, just look at the video description

[Thorton_AP]

I had no issues with the actual content of the video, though, which you seem to have.

 

 

What's overly sensationalist about it? Since the general premise of the video is that video games weren't recession proof (which is what was believed) and that the industry is finding new ways to evolve and grow.

[LadyCrimson]

I'm not sure what what the videos are, at root, really trying to say. That the video game industry is changing? That recession impacts them? Well, yeah. Nothing stays the same forever. Is this a surprise or something? Combined with all the new tech/global networking, which opens up areas that didn't exist when video games started, things will fluctuate/alter as companies try to figure out what works/sells.

 

The video gaming market (imo) has been trying to turn into/maintain a major worldwide culture aspect (like movies, fiction books, fashion)...unfortunately, that costs a lot of money (humanity en masse has a relatively short attention span), which over time alters the way the industry is run. And like any such, it'll have ups & downs in terms of market value & infrastructure. I highly doubt the industry is dying/dead, however. That's complete hyperbole for the sake of attention-grabbing headline.

 

I may personally dislike the way it's going - don't like the trends of book publishing either - but it ain't dead.

Edited August 3, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Nightshape]

It's merely a comment on the direction the industry is heading.

[Volourn]

It's crap. They know, you know it, I know it, everyone knows. Video games are not dying. That's bull. To try to spin like that makes the video/news article garbage and anyone associated with it scumbag liars who despite their 'experience' in the industry ar eobviously ignorant.

 

Starcraft 2 just sold 1.5mil in 2 two days. the industry isn't die and to say so is to lie.

[greylord]

It's crap. They know, you know it, I know it, everyone knows. Video games are not dying. That's bull. To try to spin like that makes the video/news article garbage and anyone associated with it scumbag liars who despite their 'experience' in the industry ar eobviously ignorant.

 

Starcraft 2 just sold 1.5mil in 2 two days. the industry isn't die and to say so is to lie.

 

 

It's absolutely true the PC gaming industry is dying. Starcraft sold 1.5 mil...that's an okay sale's figure for a Console game...many times if a console game sells less than half a mil it's considered an abysmal failure, but in the PC business...currently it's seen as passable. 1.5 mil is nothing overall, and I'd imagine that's worldwide sales? Didn't Diablo 2 sell 2.75 mil in US sales alone during the first little while?

 

Look at the shelves, you'll see PC games have a LOT of diminished space from even 5 years ago. What happened? I am still loading up the videos, but even without seeing them I can tell you what happened.

 

#1 was already killing video games a slow death. PC game makers wanted to push the boundaries of gaming. You would need the biggest, baddest, best rig in order to play their games...anything else and it didn't run that well. That's key for a niche market right there as most people would have to play at less then stellar performance, OR simply not play the game period. However, that didn't kill the industry...it was still going on nicely even though that practice went on for 10 years or more. It IS the reason Blizzard games sold so well, because they made their games to be run on anything, up to a machine from five years prior even. If you had a machine, even if it were old, you could depend on Blizzard to make a game that would run it. At the Time WOW came out it was criticized for it's graphics, it's game specs, and other items...but everyone got it. Everyone could run it...it only needed an 8mb card at the time.

 

#2 - So what really happened to really kill it. PC producers killed the industry. They argued everyone was pirating their games, and that they had to protect their games. They became HOSTILE to their customer. Instead of making things FOR their customers, the customers became the enemy. When you do that...you don't really foster support. STEAM came about, and you lost 50% of the gaming audience. Of course you make better profits via STEAM then you do retail, since you cut out the middle man, you can make a 50% cut instead of a 10% cut...so even as they were bleeding off customers, they could make better money. Now instead of needing 200,000 units just to break even, on STEAM you could sell 40,000 d/l's to gullible people, and break even. DRM became more intrusive, and yet killed MORE PC gaming. They fled the scene in DROVES. In two years PC sales has gone down drastically. We're talking sales are 1/3 of what they used to be. That means that 1 in every 3 PC gamers have fled the scene. You have a 33% of the audience. Of course...that means that if you sell direct d/l's you still are making MORE MONEY than by the old route of retailers...even if there are a LOT less buyers.

 

So where did all the other players go? Did they suddenly lose interest in gaming. Not at all. They are like me. Console games sales have SHOT THE HECK UP over the past decade. The big seller of the 80s, the Nintendo can't touch the sales of today. The big game system of the 90s, the Playstation, doesn't even come close to the number of sales of even the WORST console sales on the market, it's newer cousin the PS3 (which has actually sold MORE units and games than the original PS by some economists record). Consoles are HOT business. Why? Because you don't have to worry whether the game will run on your rig (see reason #1) and you don't have to deal with intrusive DRM (yet).

 

That's what really killed the market. Producers so scared about their Piracy which was a fallacy to begin with, that they created such draconian protection measures that finally they simply drove their customers away. As long as they make a buck...what do they care? It won't REALLY hit them until finally, they start losing enough (remember, that will have to be the magical number of less than 20% of their old crowd) to actually FEEL the burn...but by then...it will be too late...the gaming industry really WILL be dead and people will have found other ways to find their kicks.

 

I'll watch the videos now and put an edit below if they sway me in any other way.

 

EDIT: Many of those people who they discuss things with are IDIOTS. As I stated, Console games are selling MORE than ever in the past 5 years, even the past 10 years. Many of the Console game companies are doing EXTREMELY well (we're talking about many that solely make console games, not the console makers specifically, though Nintendo is bigger then ever before). The guys talking about facebook games have it right as well, that's another area games have advanced, along with cell phones (like Iphone applications) are taking off big time. Min-market games are doing well (those $10 games at Walmart). Funny story, they release Star Trek DAC with Steam...it bombed on the Walmart market, but Age of Empires WITHOUT the DRM has done extremely well. That should say something BIG and CLEAR about the effect of DRM. Games aren't dying at all, they are doing better then ever...PC gaming on the other hand is just about dead...DRM has killed it...pretty darn dead. You'll have a blip or two where a game sells okay...but it's day is over. Final Fantasy XIII which has not been really considered that great, and perhaps one of the worst FF games (1.6 million in the US by the end of it's release month), had sold 5.5 million (worldwide) after a month and a half. That's where the gamers have gone...to consoles...even with the toned down, tunnel vision games like FFXIII.

Edited August 3, 2010 by greylord

[Volourn]

"It's absolutely true the PC gaming industry is dying."

 

No, no it isn't. But, hey, let's all pretend that games like WOW don't exist on the PC. LMAO

[Purkake]

Look at the shelves, you'll see PC games have a LOT of diminished space from even 5 years ago. What happened?

Steam and DD happened.

 

Also, would be nice if you actually posted some sources for all your "facts".

Edited August 3, 2010 by Purkake

[LadyCrimson]

PC gaming as it was 10-15 years ago has changed into something different, imo, in both infrastructure as well as style - I'd agree with that concept. But dying as an industry? Nah.

[greylord]

Look at the shelves, you'll see PC games have a LOT of diminished space from even 5 years ago. What happened?

Steam and DD happened.

 

Also, would be nice if you actually posted some sources for all your "facts".

 

Various business quarterly journals. Bloomberg I believe also had a report on sales in the US of PC games specifically in the past few months. A LOT of rabid hardcore niche fans don't see what's happening to the PC industry, but there's a REASON less PC games are actually being made in relation to how many used to be produced. Sales and numbers buying is a HUGE reason (actually really the numbers buying is the only reason...there aren't any anymore). Why make a PC game when I can make an Xbox 360 game, and even if it's a bad game I can still pass 250,000 units...and if it's good exceed 10 million units? Overall, 62 million (rounded up) nintendo units were sold, which is more albeit than Xbox360 or PS3...but at that time Nintendo was almost uncontested until 1989 when you see an transfer of some people migrating to Sega (it's big competitor until around 1996 when the PS started getting really big). All next gen consoles in relation to that are around 107 million currently, NOT including handhelds OR the PS2. PS2 outsold every console ever made, having around 143 million (rounded up) sold. But then that's in the past decade of sales where it basically stands, or during the rise of the console. Console games are big business currently, THAT's where the gamers are...and unfortunately for PC game makers, where a LOT of the sales are found as well. You have them attacked on all angles via the Console market, you have the retailers outselling anything with the PC overall in games...then you have downloads with Xbox live, and PS network, and even the Wii...except you don't really have to continually authenticate their games (and you don't have to with PC games with most, but there is the game occasionally that requires reauthentication or continually connections such as AC2) either.

 

Who cares though, this is just a thread...but it IS the DRM that really killed the PC market...not the overpriced portion of producing games like some of those people think on that little youtube video. That's why their businesses are losing money...they don't know how to spend a lot to produce a game that will SELL a LOT in order to recoup it. And THAT is the real reason the PC game business is dying. The people don't know how to budget enough to make a game that will sell enough copies to make up that budget and then more in order to produce a profit. Console makers are doing it, PC makers could too...but they are too busy trying to blame their customers and install DRM and other costly "anti-piracy" motives which do nothing to stop pirates, but DO cost them money and customers instead...and hence they can't figure out why they are bleeding money and not making enough of it back.

 

It's an easy thing...simply make QUALITY games that will sell regardless of whether it is protected, or completely NOT protected. If SCII does extremely well, it's because its a quality game...despite ANY draconian protections it has...though if they didn't have the draconian protections I could almost guarantee they would sell MORE copies. People need to spend MORE time on making quality, and less time about punishing their customers...if they do that...then and only then will you see PC games make a comeback in the market place and on store shelves.

[Purkake]

I'm not even saying you're wrong, but please post an actual link to the source when quoting any kind of numbers, thanks.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Purkake

[Gorth]

Who cares though, this is just a thread...but it IS the DRM that really killed the PC market...not the overpriced portion of producing games like some of those people think on that little youtube video. That's why their businesses are losing money...they don't know how to spend a lot to produce a game that will SELL a LOT in order to recoup it.

It would be a bit of a stretch blaming DRM for killing the PC market, especially since it is a reaction, not an action. By your logic, rampant piracy killed PC gaming. Since we are all coming up with our personal theories (I haven't watched the videos since the company firewall blocks things like youtube and facebook), my favourite one is that the market has changed and casual games for people with little time and short attention spans shall inherit the earth.

 

Heck, even yesterday I noticed that Space Empires V (a turnbased 4x game) is coming as a browsergame for facebook. The gaming industry like so many others will seek towards the path of least resistance, as in the most return for the least investment. That means find a large market for small games.

[Purkake]

It's pretty obvious that there isn't one single cause to the shift in marketshare.

 

Also, PC gaming is changing, spreading out in many different experimental directions. The AAA titles are mainly the console's territory now, but that isn't the be all and end all of gaming any more, not even from a financial perspective.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Purkake