Legalise marijuana

[Gromnir]

"But I don't believe that because a (possibly) small percentage of weed users may be irresponsible parents/irresponsible in general, we should say no one at all can smoke weed."

 

why not? 'cause you thinks you has Right to get high? assuming you is correct and the number o' children injured is small, if a legislator has to choose between the rights of a handful of innocents compared to a multitude o' stoners, which way do you think he is gonna choose... particularly if we is talking moral high ground stuff, eh?

 

really, if anybody is arguing just to argue...

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Well, there goes alcohol too! You don't want to be a hypocrite, do you gromnir? Wait, of course you do.

 

buckethead is really living up to his moniker today. first o' all, we has said we is in favor o' legalization, but you keep missing that point. second, we has noted that alcohol and tobacco is legalized In Spite o' their obvious societal costs. various state, fed, and local actors has tried, at one time or another, to ban alcohol and tobacco because o' the harm they cause to voluntary abusers and innocent bystanders alike. virtual every such attempt has been a failure. 'course somehow krez equates such failures as a rational for legalizing any arguably less dangerous activity?

 

HA!

 

am hoping that it is the pot that makes you soooooo slow.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah yeah, I'm going to bed. Had to feed the cat, then of course I checked here again. Forums are so addictive sometimes.

 

oddly enough, you already pointed out the silliness o' depending on such.

I don't remember saying anything of the sort?

 

I'm amused you engaged him in the first place. Surely you've known him long enough to know what he is like?

Yeah, but I've been bored & sometimes that pulls me into things. And I do find his kind of thought-style interesting for brief interludes. I've done it myself, here and there over the years.

 

Also, I'm often away from here for a few months or more etc...I tend to forget stuff...

[Gromnir]

Yeah yeah, I'm going to bed. Had to feed the cat, then of course I checked here again. Forums are so addictive sometimes.

 

oddly enough, you already pointed out the silliness o' depending on such.

I don't remember saying anything of the sort?

 

 

 

probably the pot screwing with your stm.

 

"Yes, punishment after the fact is not a perfect/awesome solution since then it's "too late" & there can be "miscarriages of justice". Anyone who deals with domestic violence (and other such) cases can speak to that enormous frustration."

 

clearly you understate for effect, but even you recognized and identified the problem. but hey, Gromnir is here to help, no?

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 11, 2010 by Gromnir

[LadyCrimson]

Ah, I see. I'd disagree with the interpretation that what I wrote=me believing it's silly to depend (or use) on them, or something, but thank you for the explanation of your opinion.

[Gromnir]

Ah, I see. I'd disagree with the interpretation that what I wrote=me believing it's silly to depend (or use) on them, or something, but thank you for the explanation of your opinion.

 

 

we noted that you "pointed out" the silliness... not that you believed the silliness. is more amusing that you recognized the problem without realizing how silly/stoopid reliance 'pon after-the-fact punishment would be.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[~Di]

am thinking that Di is a bit overly optimistic concerning the lack o' a downside. first, just 'cause mj use would be illegal for minors does not mean that weed use amongst minors will stay at current rates. given increased availability and relaxed social contempt, we expect a rise in teen and pre-teen usage... am just not certain if the increase will be significant. also, do not believe for a moment that legalization will put drug lords out of business. weed use will be taxed, and taxed heavily. vices is invariably taxed heavily. the more heavily a good/service is taxed, the more attractive you makes illegal proliferation and distribution.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You could be right. However, when Prohibition ended the mobs controlling black-market booze ended as well. (Yes, yes, they found other criminal activities in which to indulge... probably drugs! ) Despite the fact that liquor is and always has been taxed up the ying-yang, there still is not a significant black-market booze crime syndicate working the streets. So I'm ready to see if legalizing weed will end up with the same benefits. Couldn't hurt to try, and if things go downhill fast, what is legal can be made illegal again in a jiffy.

[Gromnir]

am thinking that Di is a bit overly optimistic concerning the lack o' a downside. first, just 'cause mj use would be illegal for minors does not mean that weed use amongst minors will stay at current rates. given increased availability and relaxed social contempt, we expect a rise in teen and pre-teen usage... am just not certain if the increase will be significant. also, do not believe for a moment that legalization will put drug lords out of business. weed use will be taxed, and taxed heavily. vices is invariably taxed heavily. the more heavily a good/service is taxed, the more attractive you makes illegal proliferation and distribution.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You could be right. However, when Prohibition ended the mobs controlling black-market booze ended as well. (Yes, yes, they found other criminal activities in which to indulge... probably drugs! ) Despite the fact that liquor is and always has been taxed up the ying-yang, there still is not a significant black-market booze crime syndicate working the streets. So I'm ready to see if legalizing weed will end up with the same benefits. Couldn't hurt to try, and if things go downhill fast, what is legal can be made illegal again in a jiffy.

 

 

it is true that rampant lawlessness and corruption decreased following the repeal o' prohibition, but don't think for a moment that the mobs sudden disappeared. it is maybe worth doing a search regarding the ATF and its forerunners... specifically take a looksee at the origins, activities, and failures of the ATU.

 

also, am not certain it is so easy to put the genie back into the bottle. booze production and consumption had a long history in this nation before the Volstead; prohibition did not change American culture. drink at weddings, parties, feasts, and even mass. Volstead is one o' the many examples o' why paternalism, even with the best intentions, is a doomed approach in a democratic society (or at least that is Gromnir's pov.) regardless, it is very difficult to draw cultural parallels 'tween booze and mj as booze were, even pre-prohibition, far more accepted and acceptable than weed has ever been. Americans simply don't have enough positive history with weed. course, once you make legit... *shrug* once kids sees positive and neutral images o' their favorite actors and athletes getting wasted, we suspect weed will very rapidly become accepted by the younger generations... particularly if the activity is made to look kewl (as 'posed to the way it is currently portrayed in media as sorta a ridiculous habit for unwashed losers.)

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

it is true that rampant lawlessness and corruption decreased following the repeal o' prohibition, but don't think for a moment that the mobs sudden disappeared. it is maybe worth doing a search regarding the ATF and its forerunners... specifically take a looksee at the origins, activities, and failures of the ATU.

 

also, am not certain it is so easy to put the genie back into the bottle. booze production and consumption had a long history in this nation before the Volstead; prohibition did not change American culture. drink at weddings, parties, feasts, and even mass. Volstead is one o' the many examples o' why paternalism, even with the best intentions, is a doomed approach in a democratic society (or at least that is Gromnir's pov.) regardless, it is very difficult to draw cultural parallels 'tween booze and mj as booze were, even pre-prohibition, far more accepted and acceptable than weed has ever been. Americans simply don't have enough positive history with weed. course, once you make legit... *shrug* once kids sees positive and neutral images o' their favorite actors and athletes getting wasted, we suspect weed will very rapidly become accepted by the younger generations... particularly if the activity is made to look kewl (as 'posed to the way it is currently portrayed in media as sorta a ridiculous habit for unwashed losers.)

 

HA! Good Fun!

I'd like to add that alcohol was still consumed on the rest of the world, the opening of the American market was filled by legal producers and gave rise to new ones. Legalizing marijuana is just going to empower illegal drug dealers that will continue to peddle at an international level. On the other hand I disagree that legalization is a solution to the modern drug problem since drugs continue to evolve and cause mass epidemics: first it was opium, then coke, then crack and today it seems to be meth.

There is a whole culture built around the consumption of these substance that is something that won't fade by simply making it mainstream. I also think that you underestimate the level to which mj has become culturally relevant, with their own celebrities, magazines and political parties; which have garnered enough support to become a strong contender despite it's platform. A few years back it was a matter of time before this would become a strong issue and seeing as support has not subsided I will say that is only a matter of time before it becomes legal.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Orogun01

[Walsingham]

 

it is true that rampant lawlessness and corruption decreased following the repeal o' prohibition, but don't think for a moment that the mobs sudden disappeared. it is maybe worth doing a search regarding the ATF and its forerunners... specifically take a looksee at the origins, activities, and failures of the ATU.

 

 

Of course the gangs didn't all go away. They looked for alternative outlets, just as the anti-prohibition agencies did. Both found narcotics. But keeping prohibition longer would not have made things better, and that is the point.

 

This is not an issue we can dodge for much longer. The head of the probation service in the Uk has suggested that murderers and other violent criminals may have to be released after a minimum sentence in order to cope with the prison populations that we have.

 

Legalising marijuana may not solve the problem entirely but it will ease pressure on the system. If it was coupled with a paroled amnesty for those with existing convictions it would vacate hundreds if not thousands of places for people who really deserve to be in jail, and who we need to be protected from.

[Gromnir]

 

it is true that rampant lawlessness and corruption decreased following the repeal o' prohibition, but don't think for a moment that the mobs sudden disappeared. it is maybe worth doing a search regarding the ATF and its forerunners... specifically take a looksee at the origins, activities, and failures of the ATU.

 

 

 

Of course the gangs didn't all go away. They looked for alternative outlets, just as the anti-prohibition agencies did. Both found narcotics.

 

well, no. see, the point o' our bringing up atu is that it were little more than a department and name change. prohibition ends, but the same folks is still making and distributing illegal liquor, and the same law enforcement personnel were trying to apprehend. liquor were no longer illegal, but smuggling and brewing to avoid taxes resulted in sorta a business-as-usual for folks on both sides o' the legal/criminal fence. without the tacit public support for the criminals, the open and rampant lawlessness decreased, but the mobs were able to continue making money doing the same stuff they had been doing during prohibition.

 

again, Gromnir is in favor o' legalizing, but is not a clear no-lose situation as some suggest, and it won't result in some kinda sudden disappearance o' all (most) weed related crime and prosecutions.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

Thread pruned a bit. Just a reminder that, while the subject is the legalisation of marijuana (and related substances), it is still illegal in most parts of the world. As such, posting links, recommendations, recipes etc. is considered bad form. If anybody has a problem with that, feel free to PM me.

[Humodour]

Thread pruned a bit. Just a reminder that, while the subject is the legalisation of marijuana (and related substances), it is still illegal in most parts of the world. As such, posting links, recommendations, recipes etc. is considered bad form. If anybody has a problem with that, feel free to PM me.

 

I don't know what was deleted (seems like the stuff about hash). Is linking to Wikipedia is acceptable?

 

On the topic of hash - one of the reasons I'd rejoice in legalisation is that marijuana extracts would be legal to buy (they're difficult to make and consume large amounts of expensive material). With marijuana extracts oral consumption becomes readily available, rather than smoking, which obviously has clear benefits to one's lungs.

 

Oral consumption of drugs also tends to be kinder on the brain, and less addictive (psychologically in this case) due to lasting longer and thus less redosing.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Krezack

[Gorgon]

There was a back and forth about a particular kind of hash, and the pictures. I get why Obsidian can't have that on it's official site. It's not a problem.

[Walsingham]

This is a company owned website, and I'm sure none of us would want to see Obs get shafted because we went too far.

[Gorgon]

Oral consumption of drugs also tends to be kinder on the brain, and less addictive (psychologically in this case) due to lasting longer and thus less redosing.

 

You may want to leave off doing that with the turd - hash.

 

 

Can't really explain to those who didn't get it.