The Conspiracy Against Alpha Protocol

[Hassat Hunter]

Today we expect more polished products? AP is a multiplatform game and has been treated as such?

Seriously? Games are released buggier and unfinished these days than back then. Even consoles fall to "bugplagues" as they are now online and thus able to be patched, so they don't have to be as polished as they should have been in the past days.

Add the rise of DLC which would allow whole chunks to be cut from games to be sold later, and we you notice we have entered the age of most unfinished releases EVER.

And gamers happily swallow it it seems, except for AP... yup, makes sense.

In the end, I guess it comes down to preferences, but I can see the game becoming a cult classic now.

Hell, it almost already is, if some people are to be believed it's a PS1 game (yeah, the PS2 argument became too stale I guess 0_0)

[WorstUsernameEver]

Today we expect more polished products? AP is a multiplatform game and has been treated as such?

Seriously? Games are released buggier and unfinished these days than back then. Even consoles fall to "bugplagues" as they are now online and thus able to be patched, so they don't have to be as polished as they should have been in the past days.

Add the rise of DLC which would allow whole chunks to be cut from games to be sold later, and we you notice we have entered the age of most unfinished releases EVER.

 

I don't know myself, I was just throwing ideas at the reason. It's true though that the industry standard of polish is higher than Alpha Protocol.. then again, I'm not sure if a game like Fallout 3 met it either

 

And gamers happily swallow it it seems, except for AP... yup, makes sense.

In the end, I guess it comes down to preferences, but I can see the game becoming a cult classic now.

Hell, it almost already is, if some people are to be believed it's a PS1 game (yeah, the PS2 argument became too stale I guess 0_0)

 

Uh? Anyway, becoming a cult classic is not necessarily a bad thing, though it could be from a financial point of view.

Personally I'm just happy I've enjoyed the game (and I'm still enjoying it since I'm starting my second playthrough ) and that I've enjoyed it far more than almost all the other RPG experiences this year.

[Hassat Hunter]

4th playthrough now. Should say something .

 

Especially since most recent RPG's like Drakensang or the ME's I didn't feel worth replaying just once.

[ozzybob]

I just started my fifth. Either I need therapy(very possible lol) or this game is better than it's made out to be.

[Amentep]

I'm still working on my 1st...

[Hassat Hunter]

I just started my fifth. Either I need therapy(very possible lol) or this game is better than it's made out to be.

Or both!

[unskilled-]

Not too many RPG's out there have a high replayability. The simple fact is that after the story is told, all the secrets are out there and nothing will surprise you the second or 3rd time through. Aside from playing a different style of character, whether good or evil, the story unfolds the same regardless. This is what separates AP from the other games. The story is still unclear even after the first playthrough, and even second playthrough if your not overly careful and meticulous. Hell, the story changes because of the decisions you've made. Any other game in the past 20 years that gave you that much control over the story? Nope (at least from what I remember). That is what makes this game an instant classic in my books, regardless of how many flaws are with the game.

 

Games should be recognized for their groundbreaking achievements, and AP is certainly a groundbreaking achievement in providing the player with incredible choice in determining the story. Even with its numerous flaws (my opinion!) regarding its gameplay and execution, it should still be weight equally against positives and negatives. Let people come to their own conclusions naturally as to what positive or negative is the deal breaker for them.

 

Now for some ramblings (cause I feel this is a cool idea and dont want to forget it!)

 

Now, even if the AP franchise is killed after its first game (who knows?), the conversation system itself and the overall idea behind a player driven story essentially opens up new styles of game and gameplay to be explored. I'm currently interested in a cthulu-style horror story (dark corners of the earth, anyone?) completed with AP's conversation system!

[Thorton_AP]

I just started my 4th playthrough.

[Nepenthe]

Considering the amount of game "journalists" raving about Bulletstorm after yestedays E3 demo, I can only surmise that they indeed represent a different target demographic than myself.

[Libertarian]

Considering the amount of game "journalists" raving about Bulletstorm after yestedays E3 demo, I can only surmise that they indeed represent a different target demographic than myself.

 

I don't know, Nepenthe, but Bulletstorm looks dumb and fun. And since it's from the Painkiller devs (People Can Fly), it's totally expected.

[MarteenDee]

Considering the amount of game "journalists" raving about Bulletstorm after yestedays E3 demo, I can only surmise that they indeed represent a different target demographic than myself.

 

I don't know, Nepenthe, but Bulletstorm looks dumb and fun. And since it's from the Painkiller devs (People Can Fly), it's totally expected.

 

Agree. What's more - dumb games are needed to draw idiots away from complaining on intelligent games forums.

 

[unskilled-]

I dunno, I'd rather play a "dumb" game thats well made, fun and engrossing than an "intelligent" game that lacks any of the former.

[Libertarian]

I dunno, I'd rather play a "dumb" game thats well made, fun and engrossing than an "intelligent" game that lacks any of the former.

 

I was once like that, but after playing so-called "AAA" shooters for 10+ years , I'm so done with that crap.

 

I'll take a gem with some rough spots over a polished been there, done that game. However, Bulletstorm looks like a somewhat fresh shooter. A mixture of Painkiller and The Club.

[unskilled-]

I dunno, I'd rather play a "dumb" game thats well made, fun and engrossing than an "intelligent" game that lacks any of the former.

 

I was once like that, but after playing so-called "AAA" shooters for 10+ years , I'm so done with that crap.

 

I'll take a gem with some rough spots over a polished been there, done that game. However, Bulletstorm looks like a somewhat fresh shooter. A mixture of Painkiller and The Club.

 

I completely agree, I would rather play innovative games with rough edges than vanilla games that offer no originality. That being said, there is something to the "dumb" games that offers a satisfying feel. That would be skill. Some of these "dumb" games require hand-eye coordination and reflexes to be better than someone else (or even the AI), not how much time you've spent grabbing gear and what have you. Unfortunately there are no games like that being made, not since regenerating health and armor started to become the norm (pussies!), but whatever.

[Orchomene]

Not too many RPG's out there have a high replayability. The simple fact is that after the story is told, all the secrets are out there and nothing will surprise you the second or 3rd time through. Aside from playing a different style of character, whether good or evil, the story unfolds the same regardless. This is what separates AP from the other games. The story is still unclear even after the first playthrough, and even second playthrough if your not overly careful and meticulous. Hell, the story changes because of the decisions you've made. Any other game in the past 20 years that gave you that much control over the story? Nope (at least from what I remember). That is what makes this game an instant classic in my books, regardless of how many flaws are with the game.

 

What is appreciable in game is the impossibility to see all the game in one playthrough. It happened a lot in RPGs before and is rarer nowadays. That's what gives importance to the choices.

Of course, from a design point of view, having to develop a game that will play in 40 hours and offers only 50% of the game in one playthrough will necessit to develop a 80 hours story. So, some editors would think that such a mechanic is a waste of time.

[Thorton_AP]

I think it's mostly because most people will only play a game only once (if they finish at all).

[Fallen Ghost]

At first glance AP looks like it doesn't deserve all the low ratings but the more you play and the more you experiment around with the different skills and mechanics the more you see what a broken game it is once you start making bad skill development decisions....an experienced RPG player will test around a bit at the beginning and use prior knowledge from other RPGs to get through the game without noticing the broken parts....I almost completed a whole playthrough when the game decided it was a good idea to make me absolutely 100% need a skill I never needed before in order to advance the game 2 missions before the endgame.

 

After that experimentation and testing with the less than optimal skill development choices combined with the poor bordering on broken way they behaved led me to fully understand and simpathize with some of the harsher reviews of the game. The problems can be avoided for the most part by sticking one of a very few working combos and the really branching story is really enjoyable....this is about the only saving feature of the game. Then there are a few plot holes and balance issues that don't deal with skill development such as the ponce repellent wallpaper known only to mr. thorton.

 

Ultimately most bad decisions can be painfully manage with though it makes the game literally become very unenjoyable while some extremely few bugs can literally leave you in impossible spots such as all of a sudden 80% through the game having to do a 12 node bypass in 20 seconds with a console controller(360 or PS3)....you can't click around at will and the only way to switch selected circuits is by cycling through each and every one manually which really eats up a lot of seconds when you are trying to navigate 12 heavily scrambled nodes in under 20 seconds. This wouldn't be nearly as bad if the game was clear about the skill requirement for EMPs after the tutorial and if they actually were common rather than only seeing them on a few irrelevant doors you have alternate routes to work around before all of a sudden having one block your ability to continue the game right near the very end.

 

In the end there are some horribly bad game design decisions and some painfully broken features and plot holes.....great story overall and playable mostly without issues if you know what you're doing right off the bat but can still run into game breaking shortfalls though far fewer than someone unused to RPGs. Once you get to really learn the game inside out the game can be played without issues or problems if you know where all the bad parts are and take appropriate preemptive action but you can be left with a sore resent if your play style isn't properly functional or just too much of a pain to bother with. So yeah this game deserves its 65, 66 and 73 metacritic scores just like it deserves its lowest individual reviewer scores.

[ckhound]

Personally i seen no bugs or any gameplay killing aspects that fallout 3 didnt have worse. Seriously that game cant even be played unless your willing to reload about 20 times per play session, but it got 10s and game of the year honors. Seriously this is a huge angry slap at obsidian and sega because the developers where wondering why they couldnt shoot within one second of aiming. People whine about that alot when in real life you actually have to take a second or two to get a accurate shot downrange. I mean seriously these same reviewers also gave MW2 10s and/or 9s when you can run around and blast 5 barret rounds downrange while standing upright and have about 2 cm kickback on aim, really. This is proof that when you dont have a huge marketing campaign with all the reviewers you get burned. 1up.com actually gave the game i think a b or b- which is pretty good imo and i think it at least deserves that.

[Orchomene]

At first glance AP looks like it doesn't deserve all the low ratings but the more you play and the more you experiment around with the different skills and mechanics the more you see what a broken game it is once you start making bad skill development decisions....an experienced RPG player will test around a bit at the beginning and use prior knowledge from other RPGs to get through the game without noticing the broken parts....I almost completed a whole playthrough when the game decided it was a good idea to make me absolutely 100% need a skill I never needed before in order to advance the game 2 missions before the endgame.

 

After that experimentation and testing with the less than optimal skill development choices combined with the poor bordering on broken way they behaved led me to fully understand and simpathize with some of the harsher reviews of the game. The problems can be avoided for the most part by sticking one of a very few working combos and the really branching story is really enjoyable....this is about the only saving feature of the game. Then there are a few plot holes and balance issues that don't deal with skill development such as the ponce repellent wallpaper known only to mr. thorton.

 

Ultimately most bad decisions can be painfully manage with though it makes the game literally become very unenjoyable while some extremely few bugs can literally leave you in impossible spots such as all of a sudden 80% through the game having to do a 12 node bypass in 20 seconds with a console controller(360 or PS3)....you can't click around at will and the only way to switch selected circuits is by cycling through each and every one manually which really eats up a lot of seconds when you are trying to navigate 12 heavily scrambled nodes in under 20 seconds. This wouldn't be nearly as bad if the game was clear about the skill requirement for EMPs after the tutorial and if they actually were common rather than only seeing them on a few irrelevant doors you have alternate routes to work around before all of a sudden having one block your ability to continue the game right near the very end.

 

In the end there are some horribly bad game design decisions and some painfully broken features and plot holes.....great story overall and playable mostly without issues if you know what you're doing right off the bat but can still run into game breaking shortfalls though far fewer than someone unused to RPGs. Once you get to really learn the game inside out the game can be played without issues or problems if you know where all the bad parts are and take appropriate preemptive action but you can be left with a sore resent if your play style isn't properly functional or just too much of a pain to bother with. So yeah this game deserves its 65, 66 and 73 metacritic scores just like it deserves its lowest individual reviewer scores.

 

Well, you know, there is something called "easy mode" if someone doesn't know how to play a RPG.

Do you really think that because a game is a bit difficult it is bad ? It's a matter of taste, of course, but it seems to me natural that if you plan poorly your character you will have some difficulties playing the game. It's the same in all RPGs, even action RPGs.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Orchomene

[Thorton_AP]

I wouldn't pay much attention.

 

For as unenjoyable the game is, he has played it through to completion 10 times apparently.

[Fallen Ghost]

Well, you know, there is something called "easy mode" if someone doesn't know how to play a RPG.

Do you really think that because a game is a bit difficult it is bad ? It's a matter of taste, of course, but it seems to me natural that if you plan poorly your character you will have some difficulties playing the game. It's the same in all RPGs, even action RPGs.

 

I wasn't talking about difficulties....I was talking about game stopping and game ruining experiences. I've played RPGs for years and have played nearly every major RPG released since KotOR in 2003.....no RPG ever had a broken tutorial an no RPG drastically increased the difficulty of a critical to mission advancement minigame, all of a sudden and for absolutely no apparent reason 80% through the game....doing 12 nodes in 20 seconds cannot be done with a controller because you need to cycle through all the nodes between the one elected and the one you need to cut.....shifting from the left/right to the center takes well over a second and spotting the next number also takes a bit as they are all badly scrambled. Not to mention the plot holes, misleading achievement descriptions where doing what the a achievement says is literally going to guarantee you won't get it(Judge Jury and Executioner just to name one). This game deserves and owns its lowers scores.....no RPG I ever played had quite as many broken parts.

[Hassat Hunter]

Cheating can break games.

 

Geeh, there's a new one [/sarcasm]

 

There is no "broken tutorial" unless you deliberately **** it up...

[Fallen Ghost]

Cheating can break games.

 

Geeh, there's a new one [/sarcasm]

 

There is no "broken tutorial" unless you deliberately **** it up...

 

WRONG: in the tutorial you can use EMP grenades with exactly 0 points in Sabotage.....to EVER use an EMP grenade again you NEED at least a poing in Sabotage which I only found out 80% through my first playthrough when I ran into an impossible minigame and I NEVER cheated or modded or exploited anything at all. The game just randomly decided to put a 12 node bypass in the way of my mission objective and give me 20 seconds to complete it....it IS impossible with a console controller.

 

I ONLY started modding after my 4th playthrough and it NEVER influenced minigame difficulty in my playthroughs but this is irrelevant to my point....the game's tutorial IS bad....this all happened with NO modding/cheating/exploiting of ANY kind. That is a FACT.

[Oner]

It's also a fact that you didn't bother reading up on the skills.

[Fallen Ghost]

It's also a fact that you didn't bother reading up on the skills.

 

 

Why would I look into a skill I don't care about when the tutorial clearly said I can use EMPs to disable electronic devices without further requirement and when I didn't even need to think about EMPs for 80% of the game? I read over all the skill enabled activated powers but had no reason to look into passive powers when I had no real problems.

 

Your logic is ONLY amounting to one simple argument: It's my fault for not assuming the game's tutorial was broken and not assuming the game would inadvertently and for no apparent reason put an impossible obstacle in my way really late in the game because I all of a sudden need a skill the tutorial clearly spelled out that I'd never need.

 

Your argument would be valid if there was a warning on the box somewhere reading: "Assume all features are broken" but if it did I wouldn't have bought it to begin with.