North Korea attacks and sinks South Korean ship, killing 46 people

[heathen]

Edit: Besides, did he ever dispute that the Soviet Union was nationalist socialist? A totalitarian system is a totalitarian system, be it based on communism, fascism, or rainbows and pink unicorns.

 

Maybe to someone who doesn't know much about politics, or doesn't care and is stuck with an us vs. them attitude. The Cold War is over man, get on with the times.

[Walsingham]

Edit: Besides, did he ever dispute that the Soviet Union was nationalist socialist? A totalitarian system is a totalitarian system, be it based on communism, fascism, or rainbows and pink unicorns.

 

Maybe to someone who doesn't know much about politics, or doesn't care and is stuck with an us vs. them attitude. The Cold War is over man, get on with the times.

 

I don't normally side with WoD, but you're being unreasonable. The point isn't what name it has. The point is the foundation of both states: repressive authoritarian violence. In fascism it's because the leader and 'science' tell you do what you're told. In communism it's because 'science' and the leader tell you to do as you're told. Potato/Pohtahto.

 

The Cold War may be over, but millions of people are still suffering due to the failed experiment of communism. It's bad enough that we have the remnant to sort out, without the possibilty that a complacent attitude could lead to it happening somewhere new.

[Cycloneman]

I don't normally side with WoD, but you're being unreasonable. The point isn't what name it has. The point is the foundation of both states: repressive authoritarian violence. In fascism it's because the leader and 'science' tell you do what you're told. In communism it's because 'science' and the leader tell you to do as you're told. Potato/Pohtahto.

Fascism and communism are not the same, please don't conflate them. Fascism = communism is ridiculous and insulting to all the communists who have died helping to save the world from fascism. This sort of conflation results in some bizarro scenario where figures like Oliver Law and Harry Haywood are just as bad as Franco's bunch, where Red Army = White Army, where leftism = rightism. It's absurd, it's insulting, and it's far too simple an analysis.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yeah, sorry to insult your murdering communist heroes. You should've said so earlier, puts all your posts in a new perspective. Have you met LoF yet?

[Cycloneman]

Yeah, sorry to insult your murdering communist heroes. You should've said so earlier, puts all your posts in a new perspective. Have you met LoF yet?

Oh, so you would like to go out and insult the communist veterans of the International Brigades for their political viewpoints? The communist veterans of the French Resistance? They worked far harder, and put themselves at far more risk, in defense of human rights than you ever will.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Defense of communism you mean, since when do communists believe in human rights? Do you also give credit to nazis for standing up to the communists?

[Gorgon]

The Commies were there to infiltrate and agitate using cell based organization, it's not surprising that they happened to make good resistance fighters.

[Cycloneman]

Defense of communism you mean, since when do communists believe in human rights?

It was not until sometime later that I was able to fully grasp the implications of Trotsky

[Zoraptor]

Not a winning argument that one, the communist involvement in Spain was definitively not a high point. Unless you're a particular fan of Animal Farm which probably would not have existed without it.

[Cycloneman]

Not a winning argument that one, the communist involvement in Spain was definitively not a high point. Unless you're a particular fan of Animal Farm which probably would not have existed without it.

AFAIK, the International Brigades were not involved in that kind of suppression.

[Humodour]

Defense of communism you mean, since when do communists believe in human rights? Do you also give credit to nazis for standing up to the communists?

 

You are truly ignorant.

 

Simply because the overall leaders of communism were despotic totalitarians doesn't mean the average communist (especially prior to the end of WW2) had anything to do with such. They tended to in fact be progressive.

 

Even to this day you have communists and socialists all over Europe who happily coexist with democracy and are staunch champions of human rights.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Krezack

[Zoraptor]

Not a winning argument that one, the communist involvement in Spain was definitively not a high point. Unless you're a particular fan of Animal Farm which probably would not have existed without it.

AFAIK, the International Brigades were not involved in that kind of suppression.

The International Brigades weren't particularly, but you've picked a rather poor quote given that one of the major problems on the Republican side of the war was the power mongering and ideological obsessions of the communists with people on their own side. Certainly Orwell would have disagreed with your quoted passage very strongly.

[Walsingham]

Defense of communism you mean, since when do communists believe in human rights? Do you also give credit to nazis for standing up to the communists?

 

You are truly ignorant.

 

Simply because the overall leaders of communism were despotic totalitarians doesn't mean the average communist (especially prior to the end of WW2) had anything to do with such. They tended to in fact be progressive.

 

Even to this day you have communists and socialists all over Europe who happily coexist with democracy and are staunch champions of human rights.

 

 

You also have far right parties like the BNP and National Front 'happily coexisting'. Honestly, Krez? The only reason eitehr sort of extremist can coexist is because they aren't allowed to enact their planned system.

[Gorgon]

That's an exaggeration. I think the communist party in the Ukraine is reasonably popular, there is one in Japan as well, I'm sure the list goes on.

 

They are not traditional Communists though, they don't expect to overthrow the government and replace it with a dictatorship of the elite.

[213374U]

Filthy revisionist, bourgeois reactionaries disguised as Marxists all of them, I tell you! Communists in name only!

[Cycloneman]

The International Brigades weren't particularly, but you've picked a rather poor quote given that one of the major problems on the Republican side of the war was the power mongering and ideological obsessions of the communists with people on their own side. Certainly Orwell would have disagreed with your quoted passage very strongly.

Well if I could have found a Haywood quote about serving in the Merchant Marines during WW2, I would have posted that.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Good thing Comrade Stalin made sure that filthy contra Trotsky got his.

[Cycloneman]

Good thing Comrade Stalin made sure that filthy contra Trotsky got his.

Weren't you just arguing that all communists are the same and equivalent to fascists? So isn't it actually a good thing from your perspective when communists get killed?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Didn't I say it was a good thing? Anyway, I don't believe in killing anyone unless it's after a trial or in self defense.

[Calax]

Didn't I say it was a good thing? Anyway, I don't believe in killing anyone unless it's after a trial or in self defense.

So, then you're against the war in iraq.

[Thorton_AP]

And okay with enabling the government with killing people

[Wrath of Dagon]

Self defense is a broad concept.

[Calax]

Self defense is a broad concept.

Does self defense include beating the living tar out of a guy 60 lbs lighter with a baseball bat while wearing armor because he said "I'm gonna get ya!"?

 

Because that is basically the war in iraq in a nutshell... militarily they would do better with harsh language.

[Orogun01]

Self defense is a broad concept.

Does self defense include beating the living tar out of a guy 60 lbs lighter with a baseball bat while wearing armor because he said "I'm gonna get ya!"?

 

Because that is basically the war in iraq in a nutshell... militarily they would do better with harsh language.

Aesop The Frog and the Lion. "either less noise or more size" Self preservation should tell one when to shut up.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Orogun01

[Calax]

But he said killing was ok in self defense, Iraq was hardly self defense given that they couldn't even touch us, and weren't close to those WMD's that they kept telling us were gonna jump out of the closet.