A game influenced by the ideas of Nietzsche

[Meshugger]

Well, not just one game. But a trilogy of them:

 

Xenosaga I: Der Wille zur Macht (The Will to Power)

Xenosaga II: Jenseits von Gut und B

[Meshugger]

 

I think it the first time a single song has got me interested in a game.

[Irrelevant]

I played a bit of the first one but I can not recomend it, it is not explained what attacks/skills do what, which is fine for the attacks if you want to take time to figure them out, but its harder for skills since you get items which increase your skills and if you do not use them by the late game you will be in trouble.

If I remenber correctly the games were kind of rushed because they did not sell well.

I can recommend Xenogears for the Playstation, it is part of the same series and shares some of the plot elements.

 

I like the name "nub"

Edited May 13, 2010 by Irrelevant

[J.E. Sawyer]

I have never heard/seen anything about these games beyond the titles that would lead me to believe they have anything to do with Nietzschean philosophy. To quote the man himself, "Die mystischen Erkl

[Orogun01]

This is a JRPG, if you are okay with that then this is a unique experience within the genre. The writing is certainly unique, the characters memorable, if you are the kind of person that enjoys Japanese games and their archetypal structures. I will say this the battle system is a little hard to get into and the game has as much of Nietzsche as Too Human.

I still don't understand why people think that the "Will zur Macht" translates into video games.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Orogun01

[Nemo0071]

while surfing on youtube for different RPG-soundtracks, i stumbled upon this marvellous diamond. Simply one the best tracks that i have heard in a videogame. A game with a soundtrack like this? Consider me intruiged!

 

Damn! Now you got me interested too!

 

That "marvellous diamond" you mentioned is a Yuki Kajiura song (also listen to this one if you haven't). A composer that made me hunt for some anime & related manga that I wouldn't be aware of otherwise. Shame she isn't well-known outside the anime world. I saw the list on youtube, some songs (maybe all?) are definitely her work.

 

Guys, MOAR INFO on the game(s). Pretty please?

 

 

p.s.: Both songs are from the 2nd disc of Xenosaga III soundtrack.

[Atom523]

Alright, i have played through all three games.

 

Alright first and foremost you have to like JRPGs to enjoy these games, they are all designed as old school JRPGs with the slight difference (not really slight) of having massively long cut scenes where the storyline is progressed. Some cut scenes last a minute or two, some can clock in at 45 minutes to an hour. You need plenty of free time if you plan on playing these games. The characters are interesting many characters are well written and the voice work is i believe above average, not the best but you won't want to stick a knife through your ears when it comes to most of the characters. The plot can be a bit convoluted at times (more and more as the series goes on) but has enough twists and turns to make things interesting. Characters drive the storyline, and the game has a well made group of antagonists that shouldn't bore you.

If you can take the massive amount of cut scenes there is a interesting story with like i mentioned well made characters.

 

Xenosaga is the spiritual successor to Xenogears. It isn't the same universe nor is it part of the same series. Copyright to Xenogears is with Square Enix so Monolith tried to make it as similar as possible without breaking the law (Xenosaga was made by former Squaresoft employees who had made Xenogears)

 

Now on to the gameplay, turn based combat, several attacks per character with various special moves...in the first game i mean. The First game has a fluid on foot combat system which personally i found to be a joy to play. Combat is fast paced enough to be interesting while still giving you the time needed to make decisions and enough choices to keep things from becoming boring. If there is any fault in the combat system i believe is that later on in the game when you have massive special moves which all have little sequences there is no way t skip them but that is minor. There are times when you control a giant mecha in combat, though those battles feel tacked on and not that impressive.

 

The second game.....the combat system is pure crap, they took everything that made the combat good in the first game and tossed it out and replaced it with a system where you build up AP for several turns before you can do anything even remotely effective. Battles take forever to finish and the random battles feel more like a chore then anything else. Storyline and characters are still very interesting and the exploration into the past of several characters is very interesting. It is almost worth the bad gameplay but not quite. This game is the poster child for things like Action Replay or Gameshark, cheating to make the combat simple so you can see the storyline is something i encourage. The one thing that this game does well is the mecha combat which is far superior to how it was done in the first game. The machines feel necessary and powerful as opposed to how weak and pathetic they were in the first game.

 

The third game reintroduces several elements of the first game's combat back into the game. It creates a hybrid of both combat systems which not as good as the first game is still far better then the second one. The issue with the third game is the plot. You see Xenosaga was suppose to be a 6 game series, the second game was so bad that they had to cancel several of the games and condense the rest of the plot into one game. So you will be bum rushed with info and the plot will make several massive jumps which seem confusing and ill placed. Character design is still good, and the characters are still the driving force but things seem very rushed in this game. The plot becomes very convoluted and downright silly near the end. Mecha combat is similar to number 2 so it is still well done.

 

Religious symbolism is rampant in each game (first and third having the most) it can get tiring unless you do have some interest in judeo christian mysticism.

 

I overall would recommend this series, though the second game is a chore to get through, but if you can plow through that one you might find a good fun game/movie :-P

 

Now if you hate the idea of frequent 20-30 minute cut scenes then the game isn't for you. If you don't mind it then there is a very good game series here.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Atom523

[Nemo0071]

@ Atom523

 

First, thanks for taking the time to write all this, seriously.

 

Second, "45-60 minutes long" cutscenes? Like, one, uninterrupted cutscene?

That doesn't bother me at all but it's definitely something new to me (yeah, I haven't really played the FF series ).

 

Having read through your post, I'll definitely have to check these games out. I wonder if a "Trilogy Pack" is available... Will check it out and write about it.

 

 

Edit:

 

O.K. there's no Trilogy pack or anything, but that wasn't the painful part for me. Typical of me to not even think that a JRPG would be PS exclusive. Goes to show how much of a h4rdc0r3 PC gamer I am; not that it actually does any good for me.

 

Maybe it's time I started digging around for some console emulators. I used DOSBox, how hard could the others be?

Edited May 14, 2010 by Nemo0071

[Meshugger]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Some of my fears seems have been true though, even partially so. I can live with superficial references to philosophy as long as they are not silly, same with judeochristian mysticism.

 

But a 45-60 minute cutscene, in one sitting? Yikes!

 

How intertwined are the games with each other? Is it a direct story line that continues like a red line, or are they simply three separate games that only share the same mythos or universe?

[Irrelevant]

Mostly the same characters, story throughout all three games; Reading that really long post about cutscene reminded me of how the first game was mentioned in the game media for giving you the ability to save during the middle of one of those really long cutscenes.

 

Again I recommend Xenogears.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Irrelevant

[Atom523]

Yeah, sorry for not mentioning it, Playstation 2 exclusive games.

Yeah, emulators is a way to go though i am not familiar with the availabilty of the games through emulators. If you cannot find any to be honest finding a used PS2 can be very cheap.

 

It has been a while since i played the games, i know you can pause the cutscenes and yes for a few of the super long ones aka the 40 to 60 minute ones they will give you the option of saving the game.

 

They use the same characters each game, though they do add one character during the second game. Each game has a specific quest and plot line but they are all interwoven together for an ultimate climax at the end.

The games are all pretty linear with minimal side quests. A few here and there to get a few special equipment, i believe in the first game you can unlock a power rangers type robot.

 

I was quite saddened by how the third game took the religious symbolism and changed it to a hammer smashing it into your head, the first two games were thick with it but compared to the third game they are very subtle. If you have some knowledge of judeo christian mysticism you will enjoy the game more as you will recognize more of the terms they use. There is a system database where they explain the terms but generally that is after they are used in conversation and cutscenes so if you don't know anything about the subject you will be quite confused until you go on a database hunt to find out what the hell they were talking about.

 

I love the games (except the second one) though i cannot deny that there are a lot of flaws which make it harder for strangers to the genre to enjoy it. I am very much part of the target audience, i love JRPGs, i like slightly convoluted storylines and sometimes cheesey dialog. I am a big fan of mysticism and find it interesting, plus i am a big sci fi fan.

 

Oh, and the first game goes with a very animeish animation, while the second and third game alter it to be a bit more realistically proportions, personally i liked the first animation style better but that is just me.

 

I do greatly agree with Irrelevant, Xenogears is one of the best JRPGs ever made. Even in its unfinished state its combat system, mecha combat, characters and storyline are amazing in my opinion. If you play them both you will understand why so many people believe they are part of the same series, the team of Xenosaga took great pains to cater to the Xenogears fans. Though in my humble opinion Xenogears is better.

 

(heh heh after writing this i am not sure if gave a very positive message about the game heh heh, i do love the games that were good and do recommend it but i feel it is my responsibility to warn you about potential things you might not like so if you do pay anything for it you don't feel like i tricked you if you do not like it)

[Orogun01]

Atom, there is the PCSX2 emulator that run commercial games and it's freeware. I recommend the r1888 build, is the best I have seen.

[Nemo0071]

How intertwined are the games with each other? Is it a direct story line that continues like a red line, or are they simply three separate games that only share the same mythos or universe?

From what I read on the net, you should definitely play all of them if you play one, because the plot / story aspect is the true strenght of this series (along with the soundtrack ), and because yes, they are heavily intertwined if not a "direct continuation" of each other.

 

Yeah, emulators is a way to go though i am not familiar with the availabilty of the games through emulators. If you cannot find any to be honest finding a used PS2 can be very cheap.

Thanks for the reminder, it might even be free in my case. I can borrow my friend's PS2, good to know they're all PS2.

 

But I have a decent rig, so I'll go the emulator way if I can. Now I need to actually find the games and buy them...

 

Atom, there is the PCSX2 emulator that run commercial games and it's freeware. I recommend the r1888 build, is the best I have seen.

Thanks for this as well. Emulation for beginners.

[Amentep]

I didn't like Xenosaga 1. Had a few okay moments, but overall didn't feel like it was strong enough to warrant wasting time on two more games (IIRC they planned 8? 9?)

 

Which was a pity because Xenogears is one of my favorite games of all time.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Amentep

[Orogun01]

Thanks for the reminder, it might even be free in my case. I can borrow my friend's PS2, good to know they're all PS2.

 

But I have a decent rig, so I'll go the emulator way if I can. Now I need to actually find the games and buy them...

Don't see why you can't do both.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Orogun01

[Nemo0071]

Thanks for the reminder, it might even be free in my case. I can borrow my friend's PS2, good to know they're all PS2.

 

But I have a decent rig, so I'll go the emulator way if I can. Now I need to actually find the games and buy them...

Don't see why you can't do both.

Well you see, I'm not exactly a console guy. I haven't owned one in a longer time than I care to remember. I would be lost in the basics instead of playing the game.

 

But I might give it a try if I buy these games. After all like I said it'll be free in my case.

[Orogun01]

Well you see, I'm not exactly a console guy. I haven't owned one in a longer time than I care to remember. I would be lost in the basics instead of playing the game.

 

But I might give it a try if I buy these games. After all like I said it'll be free in my case.

I would recommend that you get a PS2/USB adapter and a controller if you are planning to go the emulator way. It makes things much easier, although regular gamepads work as well.

[Nemo0071]

Well you see, I'm not exactly a console guy. I haven't owned one in a longer time than I care to remember. I would be lost in the basics instead of playing the game.

 

But I might give it a try if I buy these games. After all like I said it'll be free in my case.

I would recommend that you get a PS2/USB adapter and a controller if you are planning to go the emulator way. It makes things much easier, although regular gamepads work as well.

Gamepads / controllers are a big part of what I meant by "basics". I'll be an epic n00b with it, but still...

 

Hm, maybe I'll just borrow one controller from my friend and give it a shot. Whatever... Again, thanks.

[Nemo0071]

Back on topic, I'll definitely check out this "Xenogears". I found out that Xenosaga is not only a spiritual successor, but also a prequel (not officially, of course) to Xenogears. And almost everything I read about it was positive.

 

I didn't like Xenosaga 1. Had a few okay moments, but overall didn't feel like it was strong enough to warrant wasting time on two more games (IIRC they planned 8? 9?)

 

Which was a pity because Xenogears is one of my favorite games of all time.

See, like this one.

 

Seriously though, I quoted your post to say that they originally planned 6 games..........

And then I remembered where I read that:

You see Xenosaga was suppose to be a 6 game series, the second game was so bad that they had to cancel several of the games and condense the rest of the plot into one game. So you will be bum rushed with info and the plot will make several massive jumps which seem confusing and ill placed.

...

The internet is a scary place.

[Amentep]

Yeah I missed that in that post. My board-fu is weak.

[Nemo0071]

Yeah I missed that in that post. My board-fu is weak.

I read it, and forgot where I read it.

 

Not sure which one is worse...

[Atom523]

Yeah Xenosaga is an acquired taste

 

All this talk has inspired me to play Xenogears again, as I cannot find my copy of Final Fantasy Tactics.

 

Console games aren't that complicated, though, i do prefer the older console games, like original Nintendo, super nintendo, up to the first playstation. The newest consoles don't inspire the same amount of excitement as the old ones did for me.

[Orogun01]

Yeah Xenosaga is an acquired taste

 

All this talk has inspired me to play Xenogears again, as I cannot find my copy of Final Fantasy Tactics.

 

Console games aren't that complicated, though, i do prefer the older console games, like original Nintendo, super nintendo, up to the first playstation. The newest consoles don't inspire the same amount of excitement as the old ones did for me.

Now the sentiment, that's why I load on emulators. Have all the good old RPGs right on my PC, the comfort of it is indescribable.

[Nemo0071]

Have all the good old RPGs right on my PC, the comfort of it is indescribable.

This.