Here is what America is like in 2021

[Enoch]

One of the most consistent things throughout human history has been that the majority of people at any given point in time in any given society think that the world is on the road to hell, and that things were much more pure, virtuous, righteous, etc., a few generations ago.

 

I do think that the world is in for a tough decade, economically speaking. But the U.S. is better equipped to deal with it than most of the rest of the world.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Bah, generations ago the world was hellish just as it is today as it will be tomorrow and years to come.

[Darth InSidious]

With all of his nuttiness, one of the nations I can see rising from the US divided corpse would be a heavily socialistic nation.

There will never be a "US divided corpse," we are one people and one nation. We might lose Alaska and Hawai'i simply to geo-political concerns, but the lower 48 will be forever united. There are many ethnic groups within our nation, but we are all Americans.

... And Queen Elizabeth I was the seventh trumpet from the Book of Revelation.

 

Srsly.

[Hurlshort]

America can't possibly afford something every other tiny country has no trouble with. Why? Because it's the greatest country in the world.

 

 

Engage your brain. It much easier to pay for something for 30 million people who have the highest taxes in the world then it is to pay for 300 million people with one of the lowest taxes in the free world.

 

I mentioned earlier that my financial guy said taxes were at a 30 year low, which surprised me. I'm guessing the taxes will go up a decent clip and everything will turn out a-ok.

[Gfted1]

I'm guessing the taxes will go up a decent clip...

 

Sure, what was the projection, something like 13%?

 

...and everything will turn out a-ok.

 

A-ok for who? Oh yeah, those that contribute the least. Awesome!

[Gfted1]

Well that didnt take long:

 

13 attorneys general sue over health care overhaul

 

Mar 23, 2:13 PM (ET)

 

By BRENDAN FARRINGTON

 

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - Attorneys general from 13 states sued the federal government Tuesday, claiming the landmark health care overhaul is unconstitutional just seven minutes after President Barack Obama signed it into law.

 

The lawsuit was filed in Pensacola after the Democratic president signed the 10-year, $938 billion bill the House passed Sunday night.

 

"The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate, either directly or under threat of penalty, that all citizens and legal residents have qualifying health care coverage," the lawsuit says.

 

Legal experts say it has little chance of succeeding because, under the Constitution, federal laws trump state laws.

 

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum is taking the lead and is joined by attorneys general from South Carolina, Nebraska, Texas, Michigan, Utah, Pennsylvania, Alabama, South Dakota, Idaho, Washington, Colorado and Louisiana. All are Republicans except James "Buddy" Caldwell of Louisiana, a Democrat.

 

Some states are considering separate lawsuits - Virginia filed its own Tuesday - and still others may join the multistate suit. In Michigan, the Thomas More Law Center of Ann Arbor, a Christian legal advocacy group, sued on behalf of itself and four people it says don't have private health insurance and object to being told they have to purchase it.

 

McCollum, who is running for governor, argues the bill will cause "substantial harm and financial burden" to the states.

 

The lawsuit claims the bill violates the 10th Amendment, which says the federal government has no authority beyond the powers granted to it under the Constitution, by forcing the states to carry out its provisions but not reimbursing them for the costs.

 

"No public policy goal - no matter how important or well-intentioned - can be allowed to trample the protections and rights guaranteed by our Constitution," Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said in a statement.

 

The lawsuit also says the states can't afford the new law. Using Florida as an example, the lawsuit says the overhaul will add almost 1.3 million people to the state's Medicaid rolls and cost the state an additional $150 million in 2014, growing to $1 billion a year by 2019.

 

"We simply cannot afford to do the things in this bill that we're mandated to do," McCollum said at a press conference after filing the suit. He said the Medicaid expansion in Florida will cost $1.6 billion.

 

"That's not possible or practical to do in our state," he said. "It's not realistic, it's not right, and it's very, very wrong."

 

South Carolina Attorney General Henry McMaster, who is also running for governor, said the lawsuit was necessary to protect his state's sovereignty.

 

"A legal challenge by the states appears to be the only hope of protecting the American people from this unprecedented attack on our system of government," he said.

 

But Lawrence Friedman, a professor who teaches constitutional law at the New England School of Law in Boston, said before the suit was filed that it has little chance of success. He said he can't imagine a scenario where a judge would stop implementation of the health care bill.

 

Still, McCollum said he expects the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually decide if the overhaul is constitutional.

 

"This is not lawful," he said. "It may have passed Congress, but there are three branches of government."

 

Some states are looking at other ways to avoid participating. Virginia and Idaho have passed legislation aimed at blocking requirements in the bill, and the Republican-led Legislature in Florida is trying to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot to ask voters to exempt the state from the federal law's requirements. At least 60 percent of voters would have to approve.

 

Under the bill, starting in six months, health insurance companies would be required to keep young adults as beneficiaries on their parents' plans until they turn 26, and companies would no longer be allowed to deny coverage to sick children.

 

Other changes would not kick in until 2014.

 

That's when most Americans will for the first time be required to carry health insurance - either through an employer or government program or by buying it themselves. Those who refuse will face tax penalties.

 

"This is the first time in American history where American citizens will be forced to buy a particular good or service," said Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning, who is also president of the National Association of Attorneys General, explaining why his state joined the lawsuit.

 

Tax credits to help pay for premiums also will start flowing to middle-class working families with incomes up to $88,000 a year, and Medicaid will be expanded to cover more low-income people.

 

No Republicans in the U.S. House or Senate voted for the bill.

[lord of flies]

We are divided by irreconcilable ideological differences on many issues. Equal rights for Homosexuals, Abortion, Immigration Reform, Health care, issues on education, and so forth and so on. These schisms will tear our country apart. Civil war will not come because of ethnicity or by a cluttering of states, but due to our ideological differences that swarms in every population.

America is purple. The problem is the politicians.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Well, at least I live in the state that filed the lawsuit... and, now that I'm in the right thread, :

Skipping the entire thread... What LoF originally posted was just Marxist fan-fic, so here's some capitalist stuff:

 

 

Except Rand makes rather more intelligent arguments...

[Rosbjerg]

a socialist heaven is all well and good.. but we all know what America will be like in 2021..

 

[Walsingham]

a socialist heaven is all well and good.. but we all know what America will be like in 2021..

 

 

Survive the zombie apocalypse: build castles.

[Amentep]

Survive the zombie apocalypse: build castles.

 

Zombies in your moat is tr

[Walsingham]

Survive the zombie apocalypse: build castles.

 

Zombies in your moat is tr

[lord of flies]

Well, at least I live in the state that filed the lawsuit... and, now that I'm in the right thread, :

Skipping the entire thread... What LoF originally posted was just Marxist fan-fic, so here's some capitalist stuff:

 

 

Except Rand makes rather more intelligent arguments...

Yeah, no. Rand's political viewpoints are awful and nonsensical. Whereas the United States is starting up military operations in Yemen and Somalia, it is facing up against the very real possibility of long-term economic stagnation, and its debts are increasing without stopping or slowing down.

[Gfted1]

...and its debts are increasing without stopping or slowing down.

 

 

This. As we speak every man, woman and child in this country is on the hook for $41,000.00 in debt. Now toss on another TRILLION so 90% of the country can pay for the 10% that dont have insurance and its easy to see this is an unsustainable model. Hurlshot bemoaned "how could anyone be expected to pay off an $80,000.00 hospital bill" when in fact weve mortgaged our childrens futures to an amount that cant be realistically paid off, all so we can have a circle jerk and congratulate ourselves on funding a program that only 10% of our citizens needed. Talk about poor return on an investment...

[I want teh kotor 3]

Interstingly enough, LoF, Rand's viewpoints would pretty much take care of those issues, or at least stop them from worsening... Commiedom, on the oither hand, just kills people...

[Rostere]

The US seems to me today like the guy everyone knows who is nice to hang out with but keeps borrowing stuff and money from others. While American culture does not seem to be on the decline, as we speak (write? lol) the economic situation looks more and more dire, with higher debts, decreasing number of people with master's degrees (mostly due to a lot of people retiring. I don't know about the number of newly educated), and no one wanting to pay the taxes. Personally I don't understand why you keep voting for these people. It seems that in the US, the only real choice is between borrow & spend and tax & borrow & spend even more.

 

It is however true that the US has an undeveloped social programme. It could be that it is unwise to spend money on it now, when there are perhaps more pressing matters at hand.

 

But yeah, let's instead look at countries without the issues of the US and what they managed to do right. I'm sure we will come to more conclusions that way.

[Amentep]

Survive the zombie apocalypse: build castles.

 

Zombies in your moat is tr

[lord of flies]

Interstingly enough, LoF, Rand's viewpoints would pretty much take care of those issues, or at least stop them from worsening... Commiedom, on the oither hand, just kills people...

Yeah, no. A Randian society would just ruin its international relations, whine about everybody else having a more functional government, and eventually get literally bought by China.

[Killian Kalthorne]

...and its debts are increasing without stopping or slowing down.

 

 

This. As we speak every man, woman and child in this country is on the hook for $41,000.00 in debt. Now toss on another TRILLION so 90% of the country can pay for the 10% that dont have insurance and its easy to see this is an unsustainable model. Hurlshot bemoaned "how could anyone be expected to pay off an $80,000.00 hospital bill" when in fact weve mortgaged our childrens futures to an amount that cant be realistically paid off, all so we can have a circle jerk and congratulate ourselves on funding a program that only 10% of our citizens needed. Talk about poor return on an investment...

 

You do know that it will also effect current insurance rates and how small and medium businesses provide insurance for their workers. It just doesn't help those at or below the poverty line, but also strengthens the middle class.

[Walsingham]

...and its debts are increasing without stopping or slowing down.

 

 

This. As we speak every man, woman and child in this country is on the hook for $41,000.00 in debt. Now toss on another TRILLION so 90% of the country can pay for the 10% that dont have insurance and its easy to see this is an unsustainable model. Hurlshot bemoaned "how could anyone be expected to pay off an $80,000.00 hospital bill" when in fact weve mortgaged our childrens futures to an amount that cant be realistically paid off, all so we can have a circle jerk and congratulate ourselves on funding a program that only 10% of our citizens needed. Talk about poor return on an investment...

 

I apologise if you've already covered this elsewhere, but surely the whole point of the proposal is the assumption that there is some feedback benefit in paying for those 10%? I mean purely looking at it from your opponents' perspective?

[Gfted1]

You do know that it will also effect current insurance rates and how small and medium businesses provide insurance for their workers. It just doesn't help those at or below the poverty line, but also strengthens the middle class.

 

We both know the meat-and-potatoes of this bill is "to insure Americas 32 million uninsured".

 

I apologise if you've already covered this elsewhere, but surely the whole point of the proposal is the assumption that there is some feedback benefit in paying for those 10%? I mean purely looking at it from your opponents' perspective?

 

Well, the party line is that it will save us 200 billion or so over ten years. In reality, Uncle Sam cant scratch his nuts without going 200 billion over budget. Ill go so far as to say that within seven years of being fully implemented this will be close to a TRILLION over budget. I hope Im wrong but Im not.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Gfted1

[Killian Kalthorne]

You don't know what is going to happen in 7 years. No one does. No one knows what things are going to be like in 1 year.

 

Predictions and speculation does not equal hard facts.

[213374U]

You don't know what is going to happen in 7 years. No one does. No one knows what things are going to be like in 1 year.

 

Predictions and speculation does not equal hard facts.

 

Uh-huh.

 

 

Civil war is coming.

This is just the beginning stirrings. I am betting within 5 to 15 years we will have home grown terrorists that will make what McVeigh did seem like a Fourth of July celebration.

 

At least one good thing will come out of this healthcare bill thing -- from now on Hades will have no excuse not to have his medication upped.

[Killian Kalthorne]

QUIET YOU!

 

People expect wild speculations and melodrama from me, and damn I will provide!

[I want teh kotor 3]

Interstingly enough, LoF, Rand's viewpoints would pretty much take care of those issues, or at least stop them from worsening... Commiedom, on the oither hand, just kills people...

Yeah, no. A Randian society would just ruin its international relations, whine about everybody else having a more functional government, and eventually get literally bought by China.

 

Yeah, no. A Randian society would just cut government to the extent that we could finally start baying off some of that ****. Rand was pretty opposed to war as well, so there's your military problem.