Healthcare in America

[Humodour]

Democrats: "We need health care reform"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Give us a majority and we'll do it better"

Democrats: "Done, you have majority of both houses"

 

12 years later, health care is irrefutably worse in every respect for every single person in the United States

 

Democrats: "We need health care reform"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Americans are tired of partisan politics!"

Democrats: "OK, let's compromise"

Republicans: "OK, get rid of half your ideas"

Democrats: "Done"

Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"

Democrats: "Done"

Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"

Democrats: "Done"

Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"

Democrats: "Done"

Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"

Democrats: "Done. Time to end debate"

Republicans: "Too liberal, we need more debate, we will filibuster to prevent you from voting"

Democrats: "OK, we'll vote--sorry guys, debate is ended. It's time to vote on the bill"

Republicans: "Too liberal, we vote no"

Democrats: "OK, it passed anyway--sorry guys."

 

One month later

 

Republicans: "Wait--wait, OK, we have less of a minority now so we can filibuster forever."

Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"

Republicans: "But we have enough to filibuster"

Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You haven't listened to our ideas! You've shut us out of this whole process!"

Democrats: "Sorry, show us your proposal"

Republicans: "Smaller government"

Democrats: "That's not very specific"

Republicans: "OK, here's our detailed proposal--It's our common-sense ideas we spent 12 years not enacting"

Democrats: "OK, we'll add a bunch more of your ideas"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You included all these back-room deals"

Democrats: "OK, we'll get rid of the back-room deals"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're using obscure procedural tricks to eliminate the back-room deals!"

Democrats: "No, we're using reconciliation, which both parties have used dozens of times for much larger bills"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're pressuring Congressmen to vote for your bill! Scandal!"

Democrats: "It's called 'whipping', it's been done since 1789"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Can't you see the American people don't want this?"

Democrats: "This bill is mildly unpopular (40-50%), doing nothing (your proposal) is extraordinarily unpopular (4-6%)"

Republicans: "We need to start over! We need to start over!"

Democrats: "We should really consider voting--"

Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Start over! Clean slate! Common-sense! America!"

Democrats: "OK, suit yourselves, here it comes"

 

EDIT: Stolen from Slashdot which stole it from Digg

Edited March 22, 2010 by Krezack

[Gfted1]

Its a sad day for my country:

 

House sends health care overhaul bill to Obama

 

Mar 22, 7:09 AM (ET)

 

By ERICA WERNER

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - A transformative health care bill is headed to President Barack Obama for his signature as Congress takes the final steps in Democrats' improbable and history-making push for near-universal medical coverage.

 

On the cusp of succeeding where numerous past congresses and administrations have failed, jubilant House Democrats voted 219-212 late Sunday to send legislation to Obama that would extend coverage to 32 million uninsured Americans, reduce deficits and ban insurance company practices such as denying coverage to people with pre-existing medical conditions.

 

"This is what change looks like," Obama said later in televised remarks that stirred memories of his 2008 campaign promise of "change we can believe in."

 

"We proved that this government - a government of the people and by the people - still works for the people."

 

Obama will travel outside Washington on Thursday as he now turns to seeing a companion bill through the Senate and selling the health care overhaul's benefits on behalf of House lawmakers who cast risky votes. It is most likely that he will sign the bill on Tuesday, but the plans are not yet final, said a senior administration official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss as-yet unannounced strategy.

 

Obama's young presidency received a much needed boost from passage of the legislation, which would touch the lives of nearly every American. The battle for the future of the health insurance system - affecting one-sixth of the economy - galvanized Republicans and conservative activists looking ahead to November's midterm elections.

 

A companion package making a series of changes sought by House Democrats to the larger bill, which already passed the Senate, was approved 220-211. The fix-it bill will now go to the Senate, where debate is expected to begin as early as Tuesday. Senate Democrats hope to approve it unchanged and send it directly to Obama, though Republicans intend to attempt parliamentary objections that could change the bill and require it to go back to the House.

 

Sen. John McCain said Monday morning that Democrats have not heard the last of the health care debate, and said he was repulsed by "all this euphoria going on."

 

Appearing on ABC's "Good Morning America," McCain, who was Obama's GOP rival in the 2008 presidential campaign, said that "outside the Beltway, the American people are very angry. They don't like it, and we're going to repeal this."

 

McCain, who is in a tough Republican primary fight in his home state, said the GOP "will challenge it every place we can," and said there will be reprisals at the polls, in Congress and in the courts.

 

The complicated two-step approval process was made necessary because Senate Democrats lost their filibuster-proof supermajority in a special election in January, a setback that caused even some Democratic lawmakers to pronounce the yearlong health care effort dead. Under the relentless prodding of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, in particular, it was gradually revived, and the fix-it bill will be considered under fast-track Senate rules that don't allow minority party filibusters.

 

"We will be joining those who established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans," said Pelosi, D-Calif., partner to Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in the grueling campaign to pass the legislation.

 

"This is the civil rights act of the 21st century," added Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the top-ranking black member of the House.

 

GOP lawmakers attacked the legislation as everything from a government takeover to the beginning of totalitarianism, and none voted in favor. "Hell no!" Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, shouted in a fiery speech opposing the legislation. "We have failed to listen to America and we have failed to reflect the will of our constituents."

 

Thirty-four Democrats also voted "no" on the Senate-passed bill.

 

Sunday night's votes capped an unpredictable and raucous weekend at the capitol, with Democratic leaders negotiating around the clock for the final votes as hundreds of protesters paraded outside, their shouts of "Kill the Bill! Kill the Bill!" audible within the Capitol.

 

A last-minute deal with a critical group of anti-abortion lawmakers Sunday afternoon sealed Democrats' victory. The leader of the anti-abortion bloc, Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., didn't get to add stricter anti-abortion language to the underlying bill, but was satisfied by an executive order signed by Obama affirming current law and provisions in the legislation that ban federal funding for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or danger to the life of the mother.

 

Republican abortion foes said Obama's proposed order was insufficient, and when Stupak sought to counter them, a shout of "baby killer" was heard coming from the Republican side of the chamber.

 

Far beyond the political ramifications - a concern the president repeatedly insisted he paid no mind - were the sweeping changes the bill held in store for Americans, insured or not, as well as the insurance industry and health care providers.

 

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said the legislation awaiting the president's approval would cut deficits by an estimated $138 billion over a decade. For the first time, most Americans would be required to purchase insurance, and face penalties if they refused. Much of the money in the bill would be devoted to subsidies to help families at incomes of up to $88,000 a year pay their premiums.

 

The second measure, which House Democrats demanded before agreeing to approve the first, included enough money to close a gap in the Medicare prescription drug coverage over the next decade, starting with an election-season rebate of $250 later this year for seniors facing high costs.

 

It also included sweeping changes in the student loan program, an administration priority that has been stalled in the Senate for months.

 

For the president, the events capped an 18-day stretch in which he traveled to four states and lobbied more than 60 wavering lawmakers in person or by phone to secure passage of his signature domestic issue. He also postponed an overseas trip to remain in Washington and push for the bill.

 

Obama watched the vote in the White House's Roosevelt Room with Vice President Joe Biden and dozens of aides, exchanged high fives with Rahm Emanuel, his chief of staff, and then telephoned Pelosi with congratulations.

 

Now Obama will have to sell the bill to the public, and a White House aide said he was likely to take at least one trip this weekend to emphasize the legislation's benefits.

 

The measure would also usher in a significant expansion of Medicaid, the federal-state health care program for the poor. The insurance industry, which spent millions on advertising trying to block the bill, would come under new federal regulation. Parents would be able to keep children up to age 26 on their family insurance plans.

 

To pay for the changes, the legislation includes more than $400 billion in higher taxes over a decade and cuts more than $500 billion from planned payments to hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and other providers that treat Medicare patients.

[Humodour]

Its a sad day for my country

 

Such a sad, sad, day. Now you still don't have proper healthcare, but you're slightly closer to having a system as effective as every other Western country's. Woe is you.

[HoonDing]

[Walsingham]

1. I just realised that the seal of the united states is that of an eagle proudly flaunting its crotch.

 

2. Despite all the efforts in this forum I still don't understand why this bill has provoked such terrifying partisan furore.

 

I apologise if this is me being thick. Figures I find realistic suggest that you chaps spend far more on healthcare overall yet receive a system which is at best equivalent to that of most european nations. But more importantly, the notion that socialised healthcare leads inexorably to a communist state are belied by the FACT that none of the European nations who have such a system are communist.

 

Given this, it still seems to me that the case against has been paid for and benefits the insurance companies. The mere argument that the companies are within their rights to do this does not remove the right of ordinary citizens to try and stop them. Not by flying planes into buildings, or getting locked up in jail, or dying in any way, but by demanding change from their elected representatives. Which is surely far more emblematic of the spirit of our brave colony than raw capitalism!

[Humodour]

1. I just realised that the seal of the united states is that of an eagle proudly flaunting its crotch.

 

2. Despite all the efforts in this forum I still don't understand why this bill has provoked such terrifying partisan furore.

 

I apologise if this is me being thick. Figures I find realistic suggest that you chaps spend far more on healthcare overall yet receive a system which is at best equivalent to that of most european nations. But more importantly, the notion that socialised healthcare leads inexorably to a communist state are belied by the FACT that none of the European nations who have such a system are communist.

 

Given this, it still seems to me that the case against has been paid for and benefits the insurance companies. The mere argument that the companies are within their rights to do this does not remove the right of ordinary citizens to try and stop them. Not by flying planes into buildings, or getting locked up in jail, or dying in any way, but by demanding change from their elected representatives. Which is surely far more emblematic of the spirit of our brave colony than raw capitalism!

 

What he said and stuff.

[Gfted1]

Its a sad day for my country

 

Such a sad, sad, day. Now you still don't have proper healthcare, but you're slightly closer to having a system as effective as every other Western country's. Woe is you.

 

 

Yes, at the cost of 1,000,000,000,000.00 in taxes. And of course this wont become a gigantic boondoggle which spirals into three times that cost because my government has such an excellent history of managing giant finacial projects such as Social Security, which btw, will be bankrupt before I ever get the chance to collect a penny of it. All so I can have the privlege of supporting someone else at the detriment of my own standard of living. YAY USA!

[Killian Kalthorne]

I haven't been this happy with politicians and government since they ban on gay marriage was deemed unconstitutional in my state.

 

WOOHOO! GO GO HEALTHCARE!

[Humodour]

And of course this wont become a gigantic boondoggle which spirals into three times that cost because my government has such an excellent history of managing giant finacial projects such as Social Security, which btw, will be bankrupt before I ever get the chance to collect a penny of it.

 

The only valid argument to come out of the Republican side during this whole schamoozle. The problem is the Republicans are 50% to blame. WHAT TO DO.

 

All so I can have the privlege of supporting someone else at the detriment of my own standard of living. YAY USA!

 

The poor should wither and die. YAY USA!

 

Also, you spelt privilege incorrectly.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Republicans only care about spending billions in other countries.

Democrats only care about spending billions in our own nation.

 

Just imagine if all that money and resources that was spent in that useless war and occupation of Iraq was solely spent on healthcare. Just imagine...

[Gfted1]

The only valid argument to come out of the Republican side during this whole schamoozle. The problem is the Republicans are 50% to blame. WHAT TO DO.

 

Ah, I see, you think Im Republican and therefore object for that reason. Thats not the case, I hate stupid ideas no matter who generates them. And fyi, 100% of the Republicas voted against this bill.

 

The poor should wither and die. YAY USA!

 

Also, you spelt privilege incorrectly.

 

Whatever, thats their problem, not mine.

[Humodour]

The only valid argument to come out of the Republican side during this whole schamoozle. The problem is the Republicans are 50% to blame. WHAT TO DO.

 

Ah, I see, you think Im Republican and therefore object for that reason. Thats not the case, I hate stupid ideas no matter who generates them. And fyi, 100% of the Republicas voted against this bill.

 

100% of the Republicans voted against the bill because a) it was healthcare (not because of spending - they're quite happy to spend BIG, in fact history indicates more so than Democrats), b) it was a Democrat bill.

 

The poor should wither and die. YAY USA!

 

Whatever, thats their problem, not mine.

 

OK, what would you do for all the people not currently covered by insurance because they're too poor?

 

EDIT: Sorry, I misread. You don't want to do anything for the poor. You're happy for them to wither and die as long as you don't get taxed more. My bad.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Krezack

[Pidesco]

The only valid argument to come out of the Republican side during this whole schamoozle. The problem is the Republicans are 50% to blame. WHAT TO DO.

 

Ah, I see, you think Im Republican and therefore object for that reason. Thats not the case, I hate stupid ideas no matter who generates them. And fyi, 100% of the Republicas voted against this bill.

 

100% of the Republicans voted against the bill because a) it was healthcare (not because of spending - they're quite happy to spend BIG, in fact history indicates more so than Democrats), b) it was a Democrat bill.

 

As far as I know that's how the opposition works in every single democratic government: They vote against whatever the government wants, and they vote as a bloc on any issue they deem fundamental.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Well, you can't have fun or mental without being fundamental!

 

HA!

[Gfted1]

EDIT: Sorry, I misread. You don't want to do anything for the poor. You're happy for them to wither and die as long as you don't get taxed more. My bad.

 

Its like you and Killian share a brain or something. For the thousanth time, nobody withers and dies due to lack of healthcare. It is illegal to refuse healthcare to anyone who shows up at any public hospital in the country. What people want to avoid is the bill for those services. "Pay for resources I consumed!?!? F-that! Someone else should pay it for me! IM ENTITLED!"

[Trenitay]

You do know that's not how people think right?

[Gorgon]

Its a sad day for my country:

Hey the good guys have to win once in a while.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Yet it has happened many many many times. And that is only for emergency care, Gifted1. If you can't pay you can be denied a medical check up or any non-emergency preventative care.

[Gfted1]

Yet it has happened many many many times.

 

Trotting out your examples of people dying in the ER again? Yes, sometimes stuff happens, but thats the exception not the norm.

 

And that is only for emergency care, Gifted1.

 

Whoa whoa, hold up, so you will not if fact wither and die in the street?

 

If you can't pay you can be denied a medical check up or any non-emergency preventative care.

 

So it seems we've finally narrowed this down to the point. People dont want to pay for their own elective medical services and that should somehow become societies burden.

[vault_overseer]

Yet it has happened many many many times.

 

Trotting out your examples of people dying in the ER again? Yes, sometimes stuff happens, but thats the exception not the norm.

 

And that is only for emergency care, Gifted1.

 

Whoa whoa, hold up, so you will not if fact wither and die in the street?

 

If you can't pay you can be denied a medical check up or any non-emergency preventative care.

 

So it seems we've finally narrowed this down to the point. People dont want to pay for their own elective medical services and that should somehow become societies burden.

 

Suddenly you remind me of another Chicagoan I knew on the webs a while back... You're not an immigrant, are you?

[Enoch]

I'm lukewarm on how the bill turned out, but it looks to me like it should lead to a situation that is better than the status quo. My biggest concern is that the U.S. is spending 16% of its GDP on healthcare expenses. Societies gain in wealth and influence by devoting their resources to the endeavors that offer the best real return on investment. Most healthcare expenses are analogous to overhead cost in this-- a certain level is necessary to keep everything else moving, but beyond a certain point they're wasteful. The bill doesn't do much about costs, but it does do something (mostly in providing a path to preventative care for the currently-uninsured who depend on expensive ER services), and the status quo is unsustainable. And extending health insurance to more of the population is, I think, a moral good.

 

The legal challenges will be interesting. My bet is that the SCOTUS, as currently composed, won't think that the 'individual mandate' provision is within Congress' power. The Commerce Clause has never been used to mandate that individuals purchase a good or service before. Anthony Kennedy is generally the 'swing vote' on the politically sensitive cases. He has a pretty conservative record on Commerce Clause cases, although he also has a history of reading into public opinion and holding back from issuing decisions that would make the Court a bigger political target than it already is.

 

The political fallout will be interesting, too. Everybody is talking about how the Dems are going to get hammered in the midterms. That is likely, but the longer-term outlook might well favor them. The GOP has bet very very heavily against this. It is only of middling popularity now, but that's largely the nature of legislation that promises a major overhaul. (I recall a line from Macchiavelli on this-- something about having the steadfast opposition of those who profited from the old rules, while only having lukewarm support from those who would profit from the new rules.) Republicans are quick to talk about repeal, but it's not going to happen while Obama holds the veto pen. And, by the time 2012 rolls around, if the sky hasn't fallen in like the GOP has promised us, and if the new law generally works as promised and people discover that they like many aspects of it, the record of Republican opposition could cripple the party for a long time. It's one thing to lose the rhetorical war of talking points-- it's another thing entirely to have one's over-the-top talking points proven wrong by actual evidence.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Enoch

[I want teh kotor 3]

Good thing I just saw this now, and not last night- I think I would have overloaded the language filter in my rage. This is the single greatest failure of legislation in American history; never before has Congress so blatantly and happily flaunted their ignorance of the Constitution. Not since we joined the UN have common sense and reason been thrown out so fragrantly... This is a mockery!

 

1. I just realised that the seal of the united states is that of an eagle proudly flaunting its crotch.

 

2. Despite all the efforts in this forum I still don't understand why this bill has provoked such terrifying partisan furore.

It has caused such anger because it is the beginning of the end of American capitalism. It is just a sign of more terrifying things to come. If Obama had his way, he would, through taxation, force the rich to provide everything for the poor, and he would do so not because the people support it (his plummeting approval ratings show they do not) but because he believes that it is beneficial. It is a serious misuse of legislative authority -- to say nothing of the fact that its just plain damn wrong, both morally and logically.

 

 

 

The poor should wither and die. YAY USA!

 

Whatever, thats their problem, not mine.

 

This.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Here's a summary of what's in the bill: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/A-look-at-th...set=&ccode=

 

The legal challenges will be interesting. My bet is that the SCOTUS, as currently composed, won't think that the 'individual mandate' provision is within Congress' power. The Commerce Clause has never been used to mandate that individuals purchase a good or service before. Anthony Kennedy is generally the 'swing vote' on the politically sensitive cases. He has a pretty conservative record on Commerce Clause cases, although he also has a history of reading into public opinion and holding back from issuing decisions that would make the Court a bigger political target than it already is.

How is that different from requiring everyone to participate in Social Security? Federalism has been dead since FDR. Edited March 22, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[Gfted1]

Suddenly you remind me of another Chicagoan I knew on the webs a while back... You're not an immigrant, are you?

 

 

Nope. Born and raised here to a lower middle class single working mother with no healthcare. Unbelieveably, I didnt wither and die in the street.

[mkreku]

Congratulations, USA. Huge step forward.