Experience systems being used

[Slowtrain]

Slowtrain, games aren't about eating your quarters anymore, they are about having an enjoyable experience.

 

I, for one, don't find a 20h grind session that has only been added to pad out the 4h of actual content the game has, enjoyable.

 

 

I'm not sure what you are talking about. If you own a game is doesn't cost anymore to play than you already spent when you bought it.

 

 

Anyway, no one, especailly me is saying you have to spend 20 hours suffering. If you just want to play for the experience of the story or world or whatever that's fine. Just turn the difficulty down. That's what it's for.

[Purkake]

I don't want an easier game, I want a game with more content an less filler.

 

I'd rather play an awesome 5h game like Portal than a 20h sludgefest of random encounters and dungeon crawling.

[Enoch]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. If you own a game is doesn't cost anymore to play than you already spent when you bought it.

That assumes that the financial cost of one's gaming habit is more significant than the time commitment cost.

 

 

On scaling, I think that developers need to ensure that their games offer a satisfying level of challenge to the player throughout his/her experience with the game. In a CRPG with some 'open world' qualities (e.g., anything that allows the player to take on obstacles in the order of their chosing, or to accumulate xp/loot/whatever with optional sidequests), scaling is one tool that they can use to do so, and if used well it can improve the users' experience.

[Slowtrain]

I don't want an easier game, I want a game with more content an less filler.

 

I'd rather play an awesome 5h game like Portal than a 20h sludgefest of random encounters and dungeon crawling.

 

 

*shrug*

 

OK, that's fine. So that's either a game balance issue or a type-of-game preference issue. There are other ways to deal with either than turning the whole game into a level-scaling fest.

 

I'm not saying that some games don't have problems with grinding and difficulty. I'm saying that level-scaling is a crappy, cop-out solution to the problem.

[Slowtrain]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. If you own a game is doesn't cost anymore to play than you already spent when you bought it.

That assumes that the financial cost of one's gaming habit is more significant than the time commitment cost.

 

 

time = money?

 

That's a good point.

 

My recommended solution to wanting an easier, less intense game is still the same though.

 

Difficulty = easy.

[Purkake]

Level scaling is just a cheap way to hide your incompetence when designing a game. I don't support it or infinite respawn.

[Hurlshort]

Bethesda really does have a bizarre idea of level scaling though. I mean they are just horrible at it.

 

I don't think you should need to change your difficulty level to get by a boss either. I just think the game should be balanced correctly so that when you get to the big boss, you are powerful enough to stand a decent chance of victory. Maybe scaling is the 'cheap and easy' way to make that happen, but to me it is way better than the alternative of grinding out another couple levels.

[Purkake]

I agree with Hurlie, better game design, less crappy shortcuts.

[Oner]

People use all sort of metagaming gimmicks to do weird things with games. I find it highly unlikely that a first time player with no meta-knowledge could beat either game at level 1. Generally speaking, if you want to make it to the end game of either, you have to do some work in character development, both stats and gear.

A first time player wouldn't stay level 1 in the first place.

[Darth Drabek]

My two cents:

 

In open-world games that allow you to go anywhere right away, scaling is bad news. If the game allows me to storm the Big Bad's castle at level 2, that's fine. My little adventuring party should get totally eviscerated, though, to let us know just how much better we're going to have to get to succeed.

 

Most games circumvent this by giving the player a not-so-subtle push toward quests/assignments more suited for their level, i.e. "Oh no, my basement! There are rats everywhere!"

 

Would you rather have a system in which if you skipped that particular quest and came back at level 20, and those rats were able to give you a hell of a fight? That does not make sense!

 

In a more linear game, however, when the designers have more control over the types of enemies the player faces and when they face them, scaling can make for more balanced gameplay. I'm cool with that.

[HoonDing]

Bethesda really does have a bizarre idea of level scaling though. I mean they are just horrible at it.

Morrowind did it alright. Until around level 10 when one suddenly became invincible (which made sense, considering the story).

 

Still Oblivion has some areas with set leveled creatures & NPCs. You won't kill guards or Umbra at level 1 without meta-gaming knowledge.

[Slowtrain]

I agree with Hurlie, better game design, less crappy shortcuts.

 

 

I agree with both of you.

 

People use all sort of metagaming gimmicks to do weird things with games. I find it highly unlikely that a first time player with no meta-knowledge could beat either game at level 1. Generally speaking, if you want to make it to the end game of either, you have to do some work in character development, both stats and gear.

A first time player wouldn't stay level 1 in the first place.

 

 

hmmm. I see that point.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Slowtrain

[Slowtrain]

In a more linear game, however, when the designers have more control over the types of enemies the player faces and when they face them, scaling can make for more balanced gameplay. I'm cool with that.

 

 

Linear games have less need of level-scaling though since it is easier for the developers to control the player characters development.

 

As Purk says level scaling is more of a way to hide incompetent game design than anything else. It's an easy out for developers who can't be bothered to balance their games properly.

[Slowtrain]

Bethesda really does have a bizarre idea of level scaling though. I mean they are just horrible at it.

 

 

The crazy thing about Bethesda is that with their open-world approach to gaming, they shoudl be pushing the unpredicatable and dynamic nature of their worlds so that the world stays interesting.

 

 

One of the big problems with open world games is that they tend to become boring and predictable if things don't change within the world. Level scaling just intensifies the predictability of the open world experience, which would seem to be something open world developers would want to go out of their way to avoid.