Fallout: New Vegas

[LostStraw]

BTW, wasn't there a game where you could die from overencumbrance?

I believe this would happen in the first Diablo game if the character's strength dropped below what was required for the equipped armor.

 

Be careful when removing items with bonuses

[Undecaf]

To the inventory issue: I think F:NV could (should?) go with something like what STALKER did. Modified to support the stengthbased carryweight capacity, of course. Like, limited space inventory (could be expandable), item stacks only for ones at the same CND and limited item stackability according to size (like 1-2 minigunsized items/stack, 2-4 assault rifles, 5-7 pistols etc, for example). It would balance out the "get rich fast" aspect, lessen the gearhoarding and, to a degree, make barter skill more usefull again when one doesn't carry the whole wasteland with him and create some tension in choosing items to pick up and drop. Just a thought.

[Nemo0071]

I think it must have been mentioned a thousand times before, but it can't be stressed enough:

 

Something needs to be done about the crashes in FO3.

 

It's a sad fact that one of my favorite games also holds my all-time crash record (gamer for about 15 years now, that's telling something), with a blue screen and a couple of reboots thrown in to the mix. They practically became part of the gameplay for me. Honestly, I'm waiting for a self-destruct next.

 

Did they mention they will adress this issue (with the graphics engine)? Sorry I haven't done my homework.

 

Don't know if it helps / is relevant but I had the same problem on two different rigs, both with 200 series nvidia GPUs. Also the crashes almost always happen in interiors with a lot of yellow tinted textures. Just saying.

[Wombat]

To the inventory issue: I think F:NV could (should?) go with something like what STALKER did.

If you are talking of hardcore mode, I, personally, think it may shift to something like S.T.A.L.K.E.R, too. However, different from the shooter, there must be some problems related with a less forgiving inventory system and character development system. Personally, I picture something like below.

 

A Combat Boy could deal with the tightened weight limitation by carrying durable weapons with other demerits which can be overcome by the combat specialists as I mentioned in this post of mine. A Charisma Boy would be able to assign loads to his "pack mule" NPCs although they will need extra water and foods for themselves. A Science Boy would be able to apart items into pieces in a blink or, at least, in a short time, and carry only wearing/important/rare parts.

 

In theory, this should work but there are other ways to address the tightened weight limit issue. Also,

- Having an idea for a game is worth far less than the strength to implement it. No game company is at a loss for game ideas, they're usually more interested in people who can make it happen.

from this blog entry. This is why they are pro but we may rely on armature or mod community as well.

[Undecaf]

To the inventory issue: I think F:NV could (should?) go with something like what STALKER did.

If you are talking of hardcore mode, I, personally, think it may shift to something like S.T.A.L.K.E.R, too. However, different from the shooter, there must be some problems related with a less forgiving inventory system and character development system. Personally, I picture something like below.

 

A Combat Boy could deal with the tightened weight limitation by carrying durable weapons with other demerits which can be overcome by the combat specialists as I mentioned in this post of mine. A Charisma Boy would be able to assign loads to his "pack mule" NPCs although they will need extra water and foods for themselves. A Science Boy would be able to apart items into pieces in a blink or, at least, in a short time, and carry only wearing/important/rare parts.

 

In theory, this should work but there are other ways to address the tightened weight limit issue. Also,

- Having an idea for a game is worth far less than the strength to implement it. No game company is at a loss for game ideas, they're usually more interested in people who can make it happen.

from this blog entry. This is why they are pro but we may rely on armature or mod community as well.

 

The combat/science/charismaboy system could work, sounds good anyway.

 

The tightened weightlimit caught my eye, though. What I meant (and sould've probably said too) was a gridspaced system made so that strength would still determine how much one could carry, but the inventory would determine how many, so to speak. Could be 2 miniguns and 3 sets of different armor weighing 200 units of total of 250 units and eating up all space. Or could be 2 miniguns and a set of powerarmor weighing 250 of 250 and eating up only half of the space. Stuff like that.

 

As for the quote you put, it is true, but aren't our "unpro" suggestion put here to show somewhat along which lines we, as "fans" and "customers" would like to see the game to be made - at least that's the way I understand it.

[Nemo0071]

The tightened weightlimit caught my eye, though. What I meant (and sould've probably said too) was a gridspaced system made so that strength would still determine how much one could carry, but the inventory would determine how many, so to speak. Could be 2 miniguns and 3 sets of different armor weighing 200 units of total of 250 units and eating up all space. Or could be 2 miniguns and a set of powerarmor weighing 250 of 250 and eating up only half of the space. Stuff like that.

I would also like to see a combination of space limit and weight limit myself. Though I don't know if it would be practical, in terms of development, if they're just going to use the inventory system in FO3 (or a slightly modified version of it); because it was text-based, and so, didn't support any kind of space limit.

 

Also, balancing could become an issue now because the "Strength" stat (apart from Strong Back and such) won't be the only thing determining how much you can carry. Remember none of the Fallout games so far had a "space" limit so it would be a big change for the franchise.

 

But now that I think about it, it could be countered with a perk like "Deep Pockets" or something, expanding your inventory space...

 

As for the quote you put, it is true, but aren't our "unpro" suggestion put here to show somewhat along which lines we, as "fans" and "customers" would like to see the game to be made - at least that's the way I understand it.

I feel the same way. What I put in here is simply what I'd like to see in the game.

 

Well, I mean, we're giving ideas away for free after all... If they need 'em, they're here. If not, no harm done imo.

[Wombat]

The tightened weightlimit caught my eye, though. What I meant (and sould've probably said too) was a gridspaced system made so that strength would still determine how much one could carry, but the inventory would determine how many, so to speak. Could be 2 miniguns and 3 sets of different armor weighing 200 units of total of 250 units and eating up all space. Or could be 2 miniguns and a set of powerarmor weighing 250 of 250 and eating up only half of the space. Stuff like that.

Do you mean, while keeping the weight limit, adding another limitation, where bulkiness is expressed through limited space of grid inventory*? If so, I remotely remember I suggested something like that about NWN...but the problem here is that I cannot imagine how the traditional grid inventory "Tetris" would work in mouse-less systems, or, console versions...

 

As for the quote you put, it is true, but aren't our "unpro" suggestion put here to show somewhat along which lines we, as "fans" and "customers" would like to see the game to be made - at least that's the way I understand it.

As far as suggestions as players go, I agree that it's one of the purpose of the boards, I guess. What I meant is just that the final decisions, of course, depend on the "game masters" or the designers.

 

* If I remember correctly, I didn't find such additional limitation in the grid inventory of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I can remember only the weight limit.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Well, I mean, we're giving ideas away for free after all... If they need 'em, they're here. If not, no harm done imo.

 

that's it...i'm gonna start charging, dammit.

[Undecaf]

The tightened weightlimit caught my eye, though. What I meant (and sould've probably said too) was a gridspaced system made so that strength would still determine how much one could carry, but the inventory would determine how many, so to speak. Could be 2 miniguns and 3 sets of different armor weighing 200 units of total of 250 units and eating up all space. Or could be 2 miniguns and a set of powerarmor weighing 250 of 250 and eating up only half of the space. Stuff like that.

 

Do you mean, while keeping the weight limit, adding another limitation, where bulkiness is expressed through limited space of grid inventory*? If so, I remotely remember I suggested something like that about NWN...but the problem here is that I cannot imagine how the traditional grid inventory "Tetris" would work in mouse-less systems, or, console versions...

 

* If I remember correctly, I didn't find such additional limitation in the grid inventory of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I can remember only the weight limit.

 

That's about it. With strength and perks the carryweight goes up (and down) and the inventory has a spacelimit, which could be upgradable somehow (perks, merchants selling bigger backpacs etc).

 

The problem, with the consoles, could be solved via "arrange" key like what Arcanum (just remembered that it might've been much better example than STALKER) had.

 

There are of course better and easier solutions around, but the basic thing I'm trying to get at, is to give some tension and ineterest in the gearhoarding and to balance it out somewhat. So, which ever way it is solved (if it is solved) I'll be happy.

 

What I meant is just that the final decisions, of course, depend on the "game masters" or the designers.

 

That's a given, yes.

[Nemo0071]

BTW the reason I'm getting into an annoying level of detail while discussing hardcore mode or gameplay in general is because I think these details are the things that should be "reminded" to the devs. Otherwise, they can simply look up popular mods (as mentioned above) to get a general idea what the players want in the game, and obviously they did, with the weapon mods and hardcore and whatnot...

[TwinkieGorilla]

BTW the reason I'm getting into an annoying level of detail while discussing hardcore mode or gameplay in general is because I think these details are the things that should be "reminded" to the devs. Otherwise, they can simply look up popular mods (as mentioned above) to get a general idea what the players want in the game, and obviously they did, with the weapon mods and hardcore and whatnot...

 

Yeah, good point. I know I've seen Sawyer mention having poked around at Nexus...and I suppose if one was to take anything away from that site (other than that there are many, many sad and lonely dudes out there) it's that people wanted a more challenging and diverse game. Fallout Wasteland Explorer mod and Marts Mutant Mod are two great examples of the modding community doing a much better job than the developers did in this area. Obviously, when you're catering to the Xbox...it's such a broad and generally casual crowd...you can't release the vanilla game this way, unless you include the word "ZOMFG! OPTIONAL HARDCORE MODE MUTHA****A!" on the box detailing how there's actually a challenging game inside, just in case you wanted one.

 

My hope though, is that "hardcore mode" (is just so ****ing stupid sounding, btw) has more to it than what has been advertised. Can't wait 'til we get to hear a little more. Btw, FFS...when will that be?

[Wombat]

There are of course better and easier solutions around, but the basic thing I'm trying to get at, is to give some tension and ineterest in the gearhoarding and to balance it out somewhat. So, which ever way it is solved (if it is solved) I'll be happy.

Agreed. The point would be to realize the survival feel without sacrificing game-plays of players' choice too much. The designers must have various solutions in their sleeves.

 

That said, in any format, I personally think 2-3 main weapons and a spare armor would be a reasonable limit to keep the tension or survival feel, although this depends on how the real game-play goes, too. For, I think S.T.A.L.K.E.R. kept the tension by limiting the amount of load rather than available resources, since the latter option is risky especially in sandbox games. Also, considering the possible variety of the actual game-plays of FPS systems, I think three weapons of players' choice should be enough for each character build: Rather, it must be hard for the designers to characterize weapons in a way which the players feel their choices are meaningful in the given game-play format. As for armor, although there will be light and heavy armor*, the choice of appropriate armor tends to be dependent on the stats of characters who wear it: Even though there will be light/heavy armor, probably, the character-build will play the defining role in which type of armor the character should wear. So, I think a spare armor would be enough. Further personalization of these core equipments would be possible by mods and/or smaller gadgets.

 

* The threshold system seems to be coming back, which is not a surprise, since J.E. Sawyer, the lead designer, is not a great fan of armor class system. I agree that it wastes the differentiation of ability scores such as agile characters focusing on their mobility while tough fighters relying on their power.

[jero cvmi]

FFS...when will that be?

I would wildly and uninformedly guess that would not be before Alpha Protocol's release.

[Enoch]

FFS...when will that be?

I would wildly and uninformedly guess that would not be before Alpha Protocol's release.

I doubt AP plays into the F:NV hype campaign much. Different publishers-- Bethsoft is handling the PR for Fallout, and they're not going to care particularly about Sega's release of AP. Plus, as we've been told that AP is 'pretty much done' at Obsidian, it's not as if all the Obsids devs will be tied up in crunch time and unavailable to do F:NV press.

[jero cvmi]

FFS...when will that be?

I would wildly and uninformedly guess that would not be before Alpha Protocol's release.

I doubt AP plays into the F:NV hype campaign much. Different publishers-- Bethsoft is handling the PR for Fallout, and they're not going to care particularly about Sega's release of AP. Plus, as we've been told that AP is 'pretty much done' at Obsidian, it's not as if all the Obsids devs will be tied up in crunch time and unavailable to do F:NV press.

Well, judging from the news in the AP forums the Obsids are doing a lot of AP interviews and the like, and as for the Bethsoft folk, I am already convinced it's going to be a good game and i doubt they will say anything more informative than that. In the couple of months that followed fallout 3's teaser, all we got was some concept art and some interviews from Bethsoft heads repeating how cool and fun fallout 3 would be and how we should trust them.

[Nemo0071]

Obviously, when you're catering to the Xbox...it's such a broad and generally casual crowd...you can't release the vanilla game this way, unless you include the word "ZOMFG! OPTIONAL HARDCORE MODE MUTHA****A!" on the box detailing how there's actually a challenging game inside, just in case you wanted one.

I for one would like to see as much optional diversity as possible (not just hardcore mode, btw), in the given time / budget for development, because I'd like to be able to tweak the hell out of my (vanilla) game, and everyone else to be able to do the same (or not tweak it at all). And yeah, it is a broad crowd (and I'm not just talking about Xbox), which is why I hope obs devs can find the "middle ground" on this...

 

I think it all comes down to multi-tasking on programmers' account, and a fully customizable "gameplay options" menu. That would be heaven.

[Slowtrain]

Hardcore concepts are interesting, but really I'll just be happy if Obs can upgrade the quality of the writing/characters/story/npcs and change the reapir system into somethign less time consuming and annoying.

 

I mean, what's wrong with just carrrying a toolkit in your inventory and clicking on it to repair things. It achieves the same result and is much less annoying.

[Nemo0071]

I think people were talking about the toilets in FO3 a while ago, but don't know if someone mentioned this:

 

They could (and should) be usable (I'm talking about actually using them of course, not drinking out of them like in FO3 ) simply by initiating a fade-to-black-mini-cutscene thingy, much like the ones you see when you are treated by a doctor.

 

And the best part is?

 

The action should flush some of the radiation out of your system. Radaway could greatly increase this amount, etc.

 

It would subtly but perfectly fit in with the whole realism / survival-in-the-wasteland theme.

[Slowtrain]

Drinking from toilets seems a petty way to spend development time though. No offense meant.

 

I'd rather see the time spent on larger gameplay issues.

[Nemo0071]

Drinking from toilets seems a petty way to spend development time though. No offense meant.

I'd say simply using the same sequence that was used for other water sources (which is what Bethsoft did) was the opposite of "spending development time". I would even call it..... lazyness. No offense.

 

Btw drinking from water hydrants didn't make much sense either, but I'll let that one slip...

[Slowtrain]

Drinking from toilets seems a petty way to spend development time though. No offense meant.

I'd say simply using the same sequence that was used for other water sources (which is what Bethsoft did) was the opposite of "spending development time". I would even call it..... lazyness. No offense.

 

Btw drinking from water hydrants didn't make much sense either, but I'll let that one slip...

 

 

lol.

 

In my desire to be brief I failed to be clear. Typical of me.

 

What I actually meant was that for Obs to spend addtitional time beyond what Bethesda has already done working or reworking the gameplay useages of toilets seems to be a less than optimal use of a limited development cycle.

 

I enjoyed Fallout 3, but it has a lot of fairly significant issues that need (or hopefully will) be addressed. The whole toilet/sink, etc implementation doesn't seem a large or important enough issue to warrant further developer time. It works OK. Best for the developers to leave it be and address other issues.

 

imo.

[Amentep]

I think if they can't go under a pound that certain items with a weight well under a pound should be weightless rather than a pound personally.

 

Picking up a 1lb pencil and having it make you encumbered is just weird.

The engine supports weights down to the ten thousandths place in data but it only displays weights to the tenths.

 

You know I could have sworn I'd actually seen a 1lb pencil in the game but it appears I was mistaken. Its listed as 0lbs (which I guess means a fraction, as opposed to -- meaning no weight).

[Nemo0071]

I enjoyed Fallout 3, but it has a lot of fairly significant issues that need (or hopefully will) be addressed. The whole toilet/sink, etc implementation doesn't seem a large or important enough issue to warrant further developer time. It works OK. Best for the developers to leave it be and address other issues.

 

imo.

I couldn't have said it better. I'm simply pointing out all those little things that bugged me in FO3, in case they want to address them AND have the time to do so. If they have to prioritize the issues because of time/budget restrictions, I'm confident, as gamers themselves, they'll have no problem selecting the more important ones first.

 

Like the CRASHES..!

 

God, they made me hate the engine...

[Amentep]

Yeah the crashes are pretty wild. I'd forgotten how many times the game just died, but upon replaying there's nothing more frustrating than that (particularly when one hasn't been liberal with the saves).

 

Of course there are other bugs - the flying protectrons, the stretched figures and whatever happened to me in Shalebridge (after which the game stopped recognizing ramps so I couldn't go to the second floor of anything and had to reload a save game from a day prior) that hopefully won't be present in FO:NV (since they never appear to be addressed in FO3).

[Slowtrain]

Like the CRASHES..!

 

 

Yeah, for me, both Oblivion and Fallout 3 crashed with annoying regularity. They are the only 2 games I've played in quite a while that hardlocked the entire system sometimes when they crash. I hate having to power cycle the pc when its still running; it's a sure way to mess up the OS, if you're just a bit unlucky.