Fallout 3's Writing issues

[Guest Slinky]

Those games were great. In 1994.

 

You must have noticed that they have little trouble making actual content in games? Corridors = check. Monsters = check. Some other content to keep the player interested? Ummmmmmm...

[Purkake]

Those games are still great, damn it! (No really, go try it. There's something liberating about just blowing demons away and not having to worry about things like plot or boring cut scenes. It's just you, your double-barreled shotgun and a horde of demons.)

 

Sure Doom III and Quake IV sucked, but Rage seems to have less corridors and more buggy racing...

Edited January 14, 2010 by Purkake

[Nepenthe]

Those games are still great, damn it! (No really, go try it. There's something liberating about just blowing demons away and not having to worry about things like plot or boring cut scenes. It's just you, your double-barreled shotgun and a horde of demons.)

 

Double standards ftw.

[Purkake]

I expect different things from different games.

 

If that is wrong then I don't want to be right.

[Guest Slinky]

Those games are still great, damn it! (No really, go try it. There's something liberating about just blowing demons away and not having to worry about things like plot or boring cut scenes. It's just you, your double-barreled shotgun and a horde of demons.)

Doom and Doom 2 are both on my all time favourites list, so no objection from here.

 

But yeah, what made them great in early 1990 doesn't work today. I wish somebody would tell that to id.

[Purkake]

I wasn't saying that I want anyone to make games like Doom today. Obviously the times and standards have changed. My point is that id is trying to change their "formula" with Rage.

[WriteGuard]

Id made Wolfenstein 3d, Doom and Quake which is are still some of the most fun games to play. Just because their later games sucked, doesn't mean that they couldn't make a good one again.

 

I played doom last night. 15 years later, and entertaining.

[Slowtrain]

I think Beth would be well served to drop the pretensions of making a crpg and aim for a more straightforward action exploration game along the lines of Farcry.

 

 

Then the lack of writing skilz wouldn't even matter and they could make a fun though utterly insubstantial game, which seems to be their overall goal.

 

 

edit: That's not an insult. I think Farcry is a pretty fun game.

 

But they aren't very good at FPSes either...

 

 

I think one of Bethie's problems is focus. They try to cover too much ground in their games and end up without a focused game design. FO3 isn't a very good crpg, but it's not a very good FPS action game either. Because they were trying to work on both sides of the fence and as a reult ended up with a unsatisfying mishmash of rpg/shooter

 

 

I think if they dropped the crpg stuff and just focused on shooter/exploration with some minimal amount of dialogue, they could make a great game. It seems to be where their strengths as designers lie at this time, anyway.

[TwinkieGorilla]

I think one of Bethie's problems is focus. They try to cover too much ground in their games and end up without a focused game design. FO3 isn't a very good crpg, but it's not a very good FPS action game either. Because they were trying to work on both sides of the fence and as a reult ended up with a unsatisfying mishmash of rpg/shooter

 

Back in the day at the Bethesda boards (before the game was out) we simplified this idea with one word:

 

SPORK.

[Oner]

SPORK? What's a SPORK?

[Purkake]

A portmanteau of the words "spoon" and "fork".

[Oner]

Ungh.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Spork.

 

something which functions neither very well as a spoon or a fork.

[Purkake]

When you're creating the ultimate utensil, you'll have to make some compromises.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Purkake

[Oner]

Swiss army knife disagrees?

[TwinkieGorilla]

When you're creating the ultimate utensil, you'll have to make some compromises.

 

Did you just call sporks the "ultimate utensil"? Furthermore, are you insinuating Fallout 3 is the "ultimate" game?

[Purkake]

When you're creating the ultimate utensil, you'll have to make some compromises.

 

Did you just call sporks the "ultimate utensil"? Furthermore, are you insinuating Fallout 3 is the "ultimate" game?

Lies and slander! They were trying to create the ultimate utensil, but because of all the compromises it was just adequate, which is kind of an apt metaphor for FO3 actually.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Lies and slander! They were trying to create the ultimate utensil, but because of all the compromises it was just adequate, which is kind of an apt metaphor for FO3 actually.

 

Well, yes. That's the whole point.

[Talonfire]

Bethesda is very capable of creating a decent first person RPG. Daggerfall and Morrowind are good examples. Unfortunately they opted for more of an action game approach with Oblivion and Fallout 3. I think one of the big problems Bethesda has always struggled with is that they are incapable of creating games with good and diverse detail because they try to cram in too much content, and most (if not all) of it ends up coming out mediocre at best. Even Morrowind (which I consider Bethesda's best game) came across as bland and lifeless most of the time with uninspired quests, interactions and dungeons. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are no different.

 

The writing in Fallout 3 is an obvious improvement over Oblivion at the very least, but it's also little more than a mashing together of previous plots in the series. Even with the "advantage" of using other people's work Bethesda still managed to litter the game with plot holes, inconsistencies, and illogical design decisions. I'm not even going to mention the oft horrendous dialogue. Fallout 3 is okay for what it is, but it's a horrible sequel and I can't help but feel that Bethesda is incompetent every time I play it due to its banal world and quest design, and uncreative, lackluster writing.

[TwinkieGorilla]

I think one of the big problems Bethesda has always struggled with is that they are incapable of creating games with good and diverse detail because they try to cram in too much content

 

Ah, yes. "Cool sh!t" I believe is what Todd calls it.

 

The writing in Fallout 3 is an obvious improvement over Oblivion at the very least, but it's also little more than a mashing together of previous plots in the series. Even with the "advantage" of using other people's work Bethesda still managed to litter the game with plot holes, inconsistencies, and illogical design decisions. I'm not even going to mention the oft horrendous dialogue. Fallout 3 is okay for what it is, but it's a horrible sequel and I can't help but feel that Bethesda is incompetent every time I play it due to its banal world and quest design, and uncreative, lackluster writing.

 

Yep.

Edited January 14, 2010 by TwinkieGorilla

[WriteGuard]

A portmanteau of the words "spoon" and "fork".

 

First of all, congrats on portmanteau. So people articulate their knowledge of Portmanteaus. Very Jeopardy savvy of you. Love that word.

 

Second, I want to see FO4 or any subsequent FO proginy be more of a brilliantly conceived multipurpose tool, a la Gerber or Leatherman. That'd sumtin'!

[Mikhailian]

A portmanteau of the words "spoon" and "fork".

Let's not forget the word "foon".

[entrerix]

i want FO 4 to be a turn-based isometric rpg

 

but i'll settle for a great game of another type.

 

hey i know, since the only important thing about fallout was the setting, lets make FO4 a puzzle game! set in a wacky 50'sretrofuturewasteland!

 

 

 

*disclaimer* I like fallout 3

[bhlaab]

Id made Wolfenstein 3d, Doom and Quake which is are still some of the most fun games to play. Just because their later games sucked, doesn't mean that they couldn't make a good one again.

 

I don't think anybody who actually worked on those games besides john carmack are still there, and he's a programmer.

 

The problem with id is that they AREN'T doing what made those old games fun.

Edited January 14, 2010 by bhlaab

[J.E. Sawyer]

First of all, congrats on portmanteau. So people articulate their knowledge of Portmanteaus. Very Jeopardy savvy of you. Love that word.

My favorite internet username is probably Natalie Portmanteau.