Fallout

[Oner]

Personally, I hate the Star Wars universe. The best thing to come out of Star Wars was KotOR 2.

And the "apology accepted captain Needa" scene.

[Nepenthe]

Its a western rpg simplified and dumbed down for the consoles so that every fat kid with room temperature IQ could play it, without such taxing things as a game over screen or text to read.

 

We must have played a different game. I encountered the game over screen and more than a little text during my numerous playthroughs. Perhaps these are changes made to reach the average Serbian gamer?

[RPGmasterBoo]

Its a western rpg simplified and dumbed down for the consoles so that every fat kid with room temperature IQ could play it, without such taxing things as a game over screen or text to read.

 

We must have played a different game. I encountered the game over screen and more than a little text during my numerous playthroughs. Perhaps these are changes made to reach the average Serbian gamer?

 

The first must have something to do with your gaming skills. I don't recall being killed more than once or twice during the entire playthrough at whatever was the standard difficulty. The game was a pushover.

 

The only text the game has is the uninspired fiction in the log that tries to cover the fact that the entire setting is made up of a dozen character models and a handful locations. What I was actually referring to however was the stupid, stunted dialogue system made for people that are too lazy to read. Though, considering what the characters actually spoke perhaps this was for the best.

 

I can't forgive Bioware for sacrificing everything to make a tech demo for the console crowd "ooooo look at what my new XBOX360 can do", and including a merely functional game in the background. If they spent as much time on the story, gameplay, quests and characters as they did on the graphical design, it would have been twice as good.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Personally, I hate the Star Wars universe.

 

*mumbling*

 

so he's a Bears fan, Fallout 3 fan, and hates Star Wars, eh...i don't even want to find out where else he's gone terribly wrong.

 

*scratches Killian's name onto the 'do not invite over for dinner' list*

[Guest Slinky]

*scratches Killian's name onto the 'do not invite over for dinner' list*

What do they serve in the looney bin anyway, Twinkie?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Slinky

[TwinkieGorilla]

What do they serve in the looney bin anyway, Twinkie?

 

happiness.

[Oner]

Personally, I hate the Star Wars universe.

 

*mumbling*

 

so he's a Bears fan, Fallout 3 fan, and hates Star Wars, eh...i don't even want to find out where else he's gone terribly wrong.

 

*scratches Killian's name onto the 'do not invite over for dinner' list*

Star Wars isn't hard to hate nowadays with all the goddamn SW special episodes and shout outs and jokes and merchandise every-****ing-where.

 

 

What do they serve in the looney bin anyway, Twinkie?

 

happiness.

Welcome to the Funny Farm

Where life is beautiful all the time

They have come to take me away

HAHA HIHI HAHA

[Volourn]

"Its a western rpg simplified and dumbed down for the consoles so that every fat kid with room temperature IQ could play it, without such taxing things as a game over screen or text to read.

 

It would be a step above the gameplay horror that was the Jade Empire if the latter didn't have writing and a story that at least demand attention.

 

BTW its also an excellent argument against the "21st century of gaming". "

 

 

Compared to BG, ME and JE are symbgols of extreme depth. BG is the very definion of shallow and dumbed down.

 

Then again, your favorite character ever in a video game is a friggin' rodent so...hard to take you seriously. LOL

[GreasyDogMeat]

Compared to BG, ME and JE are symbgols of extreme depth. BG is the very definion of shallow and dumbed down.

Wait, Jade Empire, with 3 skills and a simple rock. paper, scissors fighting mechanic makes Baldur's Gate look shallow and dumbed down!?

 

I'll leave Mass Effect be, as I actually enjoyed it. I actually agree with Boo on a number of his problems with ME, but I was able to overlook them and find a good game.

Edited January 12, 2010 by GreasyDogMeat

[RPGmasterBoo]

Compared to BG, ME and JE are symbgols of extreme depth. BG is the very definion of shallow and dumbed down.

Wait, Jade Empire, with 3 skills and a simple rock. paper, scissors fighting mechanic makes Baldur's Gate look shallow and dumbed down!?

 

I'll leave Mass Effect be, as I actually enjoyed it. I actually agree with Boo on a number of his problems with ME, but I was able to overlook them and find a good game.

 

Notice I never said it wasn't fun. Bioware games manage to suspend bitching about their flaws until the credits roll, which is a quality of sorts. I felt cheated afterwards, (the same happened with KOTOR and Jade Empire) but not while I was playing.

 

That said I wouldn't go through KOTOR, Jade or ME (NWN OC ) again at gunpoint but I wouldn't for a great many games so... That's the primary reason I won't play Dragons Age, I suppose.

Edited January 12, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Nepenthe]

Its a western rpg simplified and dumbed down for the consoles so that every fat kid with room temperature IQ could play it, without such taxing things as a game over screen or text to read.

 

We must have played a different game. I encountered the game over screen and more than a little text during my numerous playthroughs. Perhaps these are changes made to reach the average Serbian gamer?

 

The first must have something to do with your gaming skills. I don't recall being killed more than once or twice during the entire playthrough at whatever was the standard difficulty. The game was a pushover.

 

That explains the difference in our experiences. It's not that the game is easy, it's that you insist on playing on the default difficulty so you can complain.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Then again, your favorite character ever in a video game is a friggin' rodent so...hard to take you seriously. LOL

 

Actually my favorite character in a cRPG game is probably Deionarra or Morte.

Not that you would care since you seem to exist in a parallel universe, in which among other things NWN is a great game.

 

That explains the difference in our experiences. It's not that the game is easy, it's that you insist on playing on the default difficulty so you can complain. wink.gif

 

Isn't the default difficulty supposed to be challenging?

Edited January 12, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Volourn]

"Wait, Jade Empire, with 3 skills and a simple rock. paper, scissors fighting mechanic makes Baldur's Gate look shallow and dumbed down!?"

 

Compared to BG that had no non combat skills, had a lack of C&C, no dialogue skills, and the maps were nothing but a collection of random fight, yes, BG was the game that was way more dumbded down. BG was D&D and it cut out a lot of stuff that makes D&D awesome. Where were the non weapon skills? Where were the stat checks?

 

BG was fun, but JE was a vastly superior RPG.

 

 

"Actually my favorite character in a cRPG game is probably Deionarra or Morte."

 

Deionarra was pretty awesome. Morte was okay though he was brought down by his Deekin/Minsc level of patheticness. But, hey, Ia don't beleive you. You really beleive Boo is the best npc ever. That's hilarious!

Edited January 12, 2010 by Volourn

[WriteGuard]

I apologize for reviving an old topic in this thread; I was intrigued by the discussion of writing (or lack thereof) in Fallout 3. I agree that in most ways, the writing of Fallout 1/2 is superior, but I feel there are a few points the previous discussions missed:

 

1. There was a lack of differentiation in this board's argument between written/spoken dialogue of characters and the actual storyline itself. For the purposes of clarity, I will refer to the dialogue as dialogue, and the plot, character development, conflict etc.. as storyline development.

 

As for the dialogue, I commend Bethesda for keeping dialogue simplistic: very few people in the wastes would be educated at all; oral language would dominate, and in F4 or F:NLV, I say dumb down the population even more. Sometimes I felt the dialogue was banal, and in some cases contrived, but I didn't think it wasn't as weak as other aspects of "writing" in F3. If anything, the dialogue should be more varied, including accents, and characters who are difficult to understand. I hate Borderlands, but at least they had characters with backwater pigeon speak.

 

As for storyline development, the writing is solid enough. Plot line development in F3 is superior to F1&2 and is more cogent. I do feel side quests and secondary quests in F1&2 are more enjoyable and better written.

 

 

2. Fallout 3 is, for the lionshare, contains scripted, voiced dialogue. This is in stark contrast to the minimal voice work in fallout 1 & 2. While this is no excuse for the often low quality of the writing in F3, it does highlight some of the problems Bethesda had in creating all spoken dialogue. I found some of the most meaningful, creative and witty dialogue in F1&2 was text-on-screen only.

 

I do abhor the minimal use of voice talent in F3. I'm sure Mr. Burke in F3 is the Grey Fox (and a number of other characters) from Oblivion. It makes it really boring when everyone looks and sounds the same. Big flaw.

 

3. It behooves us to keep in mind what context this discussion takes place: a video game. While many people in this board seem well read, or at least seem to appreciate literary elements in a good video game, I imagine the overwhelming population of VG players prefer graphics and playability over storyline. unfortunately, Bethesday (and to some degree Obsidian) need to do what's in the best interest of the people who supply the money- which is to create a profitable game. That means simplifying it a suitable enough amount to have some broad appeal. While that broad appeal is what offends most of us, it makes the game eminently more playable.

 

We need to look at the accomplishment of F3 in it's context: we're talking about a game that cost tens of millions to create. If we were to compare the Fallout series to the movie industry, Fallout 3 might take on the role of a blockbuster, while F1&2 would be more niche, independent films. This creates a challenge for the creators: how to keep the game true to its "Indie" following, while making it profitable. Imagine if F3 was only enjoyable to the few hundred thousand die-hard fallout fans? Right, there would not be a F4 or New Las Vegas, or, eventually, a possible MMOG.

 

I'm not sponsering selling out. I'm simply elucidating the fact that Bethesda probably had significant pressure to make certain decision which made the game, err, a bit more bland. Hopefully the Obsidian designers listen to this debate and keep a couple things in mind while crafting F:NLV:

-Storyline is important. Start there.

 

-Amazing graphics and a enormous sand box filled with baddies is great, but keep the edge that made the Fallout series famous.

 

-Good dialogue is important and we will get bored if it is more of the same. If you are going to have expansive dialogue, have enough disparate voice talent. Take a page from the Rockstar playbook and pay them all minimum wage. We don't care.

 

-Sidequests are what make the Fallout series great. Give us more thoughtfully crafted sidestory.

 

-Writing aside, bring back gambling.

 

Humbly Submitted,

 

Writeguard

[RPGmasterBoo]

"Wait, Jade Empire, with 3 skills and a simple rock. paper, scissors fighting mechanic makes Baldur's Gate look shallow and dumbed down!?"

 

Compared to BG that had no non combat skills, had a lack of C&C, no dialogue skills, and the maps were nothing but a collection of random fight, yes, BG was the game that was way more dumbded down. BG was D&D and it cut out a lot of stuff that makes D&D awesome. Where were the non weapon skills? Where were the stat checks?

 

BG was fun, but JE was a vastly superior RPG.!

 

And JE wasn't fun unless you're really into interactive cut scenes punctuated by button mashing.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Star Wars isn't hard to hate nowadays with all the goddamn SW special episodes and shout outs and jokes and merchandise every-****ing-where.

 

who's talking about the new****? that doesn't even count. i was born in 77, man. Star Wars WAS my childhood!

[Killian Kalthorne]

Star Wars was my childhood since I was born in '73. I just didn't like it. I didn't like the originals. I didn't like the redone originals. I didn't like the prequels. I didn't like the redone again originals.

[Oner]

Star Wars isn't hard to hate nowadays with all the goddamn SW special episodes and shout outs and jokes and merchandise every-****ing-where.

 

who's talking about the new****? that doesn't even count. i was born in 77, man. Star Wars WAS my childhood!

Not me. I'm talking about stuff like this.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...family+guy+star

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer..._type=&aq=f

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer..._type=&aq=f

etc.

It's like "everyone" who makes something with vampires in it has to make a stupid Dracula reference, as if it's required or something. Oh LOOK, I KNOW WHAT DRACULA/STAR WARS IS, I'M SO CULTURED AND WITTY!

Edited January 12, 2010 by Oner

[Volourn]

"And JE wasn't fun unless you're really into interactive cut scenes punctuated by button mashing."

 

if you just 'button mashed' in JE you woudl simply lose.

 

It was worse in Bg as all youi had to do to win was repeatedly spam the mouse click. HAHAHAHA!

[TwinkieGorilla]

Star Wars was my childhood since I was born in '73. I just didn't like it. I didn't like the originals. I didn't like the redone originals. I didn't like the prequels. I didn't like the redone again originals.

 

GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!!!!

 

Oh LOOK, I KNOW WHAT DRACULA/STAR WARS IS, I'M SO CULTURED AND WITTY!

 

Eh...maybe Ingmar Bergman/Haruki Murakami or something similarly random, but Dracula/Star Wars...*ahem*..."cultured and witty"? what?

[Oner]

Eh...maybe Ingmar Bergman/Haruki Murakami or something similarly random, but Dracula/Star Wars...*ahem*..."cultured and witty"? what?

Exactly.

[Nepenthe]

Isn't the default difficulty supposed to be challenging?

 

Not to people who've played all the games you've got listed in your sig.

 

TBH, I have no idea if the enhanced squad controls on the PC side make the game easier, too. I'd assume so.

[Oner]

TBH, I have no idea if the enhanced squad controls on the PC side make the game easier, too. I'd assume so.

No. Telling them to stay behind would, but they don't do that if there's no cover.

[Killian Kalthorne]

GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!!!!

 

I prefer to watch Hardware Wars than suffer through a viewing of Empire Strikes Back.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!!!!

 

I prefer to watch Hardware Wars than suffer through a viewing of Empire Strikes Back.

I find your lack of taste disturbing.