Dragon age discussion

[Volourn]

Not quite true. Even taking away bug issues, you can romance two characters at once but eventually you'll be forced to make a choice.

[Majek]

So how does one get to a threesome then?

[Volourn]

SPOILER

[TheHarlequin]

I know some people around here have had really good success with two-handed weapon builds.

 

The lack of speed vs damage with 2H when you do hit ratio vs duel weilding hit dex is a no brainer. DW with dex 28+ and duel weild abilities will out do a strong 2H any day of the week. In the same time period (say 20 sec) I have no doubt leh does vastly more damage total and hits more then stan. Unless your 2H has high str, con AND dex they are not practicle nor very robust. Again stan falls down more then he is up. Of course your bioware folk pretty much put the nail in his coffin to begin with considering his starting stats. Poor con/HP, poor dex and 2H skills. So not only is he the slowest to strike but he also misses alot AND can't take much damage. Basically out of the box, per se, stan is useless in combat as-is. Whoever designed him stat wise did not take the game mechanics into account, and if they did they did not have a grasp of them.

[TheHarlequin]

I'll confess my mages fall. So do my warriors... well, Sten, anyway. I've fallen a few times myself... to be expected of a lightly-armored rogue who's in the midst of the melee fray with her little daggers wailing away. I've become enamored with Morrigan's Blizzard spell. I hold everyone else back, then have her run up and cast it. When it works, she gets to the back of the pack and my warriors wait for the survivors to stagger to them. When it doesn't work... well, RIP Morrigan. Even when it works, the mobs have blood in their eye for my mage. It's tough for the warrior's taunt to keep them off her.

 

I'm going for arcane warrior next time around. I love magic, I love melee, it should be right up my alley!

 

BTW, I've no experience with fireball or inferno since I kept Morri on the cold path, then went straight for crushing prison. Is heat better than cold? Opinions?

 

dual weilding with high dex and moderate con (20+) most times out survives a well armored tank like stan. In fact I have to baby sit stan to keep him from dying. With leh and zep with their med armor and duel weapons and high crits just kick as much arse as the warrior classes if not more. Simply the game mechanics favor high dex, duel weilding abilities without a doubt. I have alister as my main aggro with sword/shield and shield wall on. He and my main PC (human warrior) draws most of the aggro and as long as I can keep the aggro on them the rogues and mages normally open a 6 pack of whoop arse. So much for tactics as that formula works with 85% of the encounters boss and some elites aside.

 

Agreed, my rogue really hasn't fallen often. Maybe 3 times in 70+ hours of play. Alastair is my main tank, and he is one tough bugger to kill! Sten... *sigh*... he only looks tough. Even Wynne can't keep him alive.

 

On another note, I agreed with whoever said that Crushing Prison owns! However, I've discovered the joy of Wynne's Petrify and frankly it's even better!

 

Leh and zep stay on their feet for a entire battle I'd say a good 85 to 90% of the time. and morg (respeced as a arcine warrior but even as a shifter) didnt around the 75% success rate unless I baby sat her. alister does pretty well on his own as does shale. However the dwarf and sten with their 2H wepaons are usually the first to go down first. Especially sten. I respected the dwarf to a 1H/shield guy and he survives much better as a tank. I kept sten as a 2H and just built up his con and dex to make him worth while in battle. While slow at least he hits at a reasonable % now and can take more then 5 hits. (starting con of 10? really?!)

[Volourn]

*YAWN*

 

2 handers are awesome. SAeriosuly, people who keep claiming x is sueless, y is the 'only' way to go simply aren't trying. I had Sten in my party for a bit before I kicked the murdering scum out, and he was pretty useful. He did damage, he made the enemy cry, and he did alright survival wise.

[alanschu]

I know some people around here have had really good success with two-handed weapon builds.

 

The lack of speed vs damage with 2H when you do hit ratio vs duel weilding hit dex is a no brainer. DW with dex 28+ and duel weild abilities will out do a strong 2H any day of the week. In the same time period (say 20 sec) I have no doubt leh does vastly more damage total and hits more then stan. Unless your 2H has high str, con AND dex they are not practicle nor very robust. Again stan falls down more then he is up. Of course your bioware folk pretty much put the nail in his coffin to begin with considering his starting stats. Poor con/HP, poor dex and 2H skills. So not only is he the slowest to strike but he also misses alot AND can't take much damage. Basically out of the box, per se, stan is useless in combat as-is. Whoever designed him stat wise did not take the game mechanics into account, and if they did they did not have a grasp of them.

 

 

Why are you putting Con in any non-tank character? I put 0 con into my rogue, and 0 con into any mage that isn't a blood mage. If your archer is doing more damage than your 2-handed warrior, you're probably not doing something right.

 

I haven't played with a 2-handed warrior aside from on the console, and they were effective there. I don't know if there are PC differences.

Edited November 23, 2009 by alanschu

[TheHarlequin]

I know some people around here have had really good success with two-handed weapon builds.

 

The lack of speed vs damage with 2H when you do hit ratio vs duel weilding hit dex is a no brainer. DW with dex 28+ and duel weild abilities will out do a strong 2H any day of the week. In the same time period (say 20 sec) I have no doubt leh does vastly more damage total and hits more then stan. Unless your 2H has high str, con AND dex they are not practicle nor very robust. Again stan falls down more then he is up. Of course your bioware folk pretty much put the nail in his coffin to begin with considering his starting stats. Poor con/HP, poor dex and 2H skills. So not only is he the slowest to strike but he also misses alot AND can't take much damage. Basically out of the box, per se, stan is useless in combat as-is. Whoever designed him stat wise did not take the game mechanics into account, and if they did they did not have a grasp of them.

 

 

Why are you putting Con in any non-tank character? I put 0 con into my rogue, and 0 con into any mage that isn't a blood mage. If your archer is doing more damage than your 2-handed warrior, you're probably not doing something right.

 

I haven't played with a 2-handed warrior aside from on the console, and they were effective there. I don't know if there are PC differences.

 

I am sure you are replying to something, just not what I spoke of...

 

I never talked about archers or pumping mage con up...?

[alanschu]

Unless you're attempting to tank with your 2H Warrior, why are you giving him constitution? He shouldn't be attacked any more than mages or rogues.

[Volourn]

You only have 4 characetrs. Your tank is NOT going to be able to draw every enemy to him.

[Enoch]

My problem with Sten was that his default Tactics were poor-- IIRC, he was set to use Threaten (and maybe even Taunt) as if he were a tank. Run into combat with those unchanged, and he's going to go down often. But if you keep him next to Al or Shale in tank mode, turn their Threaten on, and set them to Taunt if an ally is being attacked, he's a useful damage-dealer.

[alanschu]

Sten most definitely should not be using Threaten or Taunt haha.

 

 

And Volourn you're right, but I still never put points into constitution. If I did it was the odd point here or there. I controlled mobs with mage CC, and taunt did a pretty good job. I also set up my tank's tactics to always attack whomever my rogue was attacking, so that the damage he did would maintain aggro (especially since threaten was on) and prevent my target from attacking me.

[TheHarlequin]

Unless you're attempting to tank with your 2H Warrior, why are you giving him constitution? He shouldn't be attacked any more than mages or rogues.

 

As vol said above my primary tank(s) alister, or/and shale cant draw everyone. and with him heavy armor hes going to aggro SOMETHING. With default 10 con you really think its shocking he does not survive? For every hit he does (with his low dex as well) he gets whacked 2 or 3 times... Is you solution to put sten in light armor with a 2H weapon? It's ok to admit 'yes, sten at default stats/tactics isn't the best thought out'. *shrugs* I encourge you to take him in a few battles with default stats, tactics and equipment on normal setting and tell me how much you have to baby sit him vs the others to keep him alive. I'd enjoy hearing your feedback on that.

Edited November 23, 2009 by TheHarlequin

[~Di]

I went into one battle with Sten, Wynne and 15 health potions. At the end of the battle, Sten had died twice, been revived AND had drunk all my danged health potions. I SO wished for a "change party" button in that dungeon, but it was the Urn of Ashes thing, it went on FOREVER and, being out of health potions, it wasn't a healthy time for any of us.

 

I don't bother with Sten any more. I'll only take him on his personal quest, then back to camp for the big lug pantywaist.

[HoonDing]

Alistair & Shale are both almost indestructible and have very useful abilities to boot. They're also funny. So aside from story reasons, why even use Sten & Oghren? If there was one two-handed warrior I'd like to have in my party, it'd be

Ser Cauthrein. That chick probably had a strength & constitution of 150.

 

 

I always kept Leliana in archer mode so she fell only 3 times during 70+ hours of play.

[entrerix]

i second the cauthrien vote. she'd be way overpowered though. she tore through my entire party TWICE before i was able to beat her... she shrugged off all my attempts at crushing prison or cone of cold, the only way i was able to take her out was to put leliana behind her and just backstab the hell out of her while having alistair do nothing but drink potions and taunt. morrigan using the 4th level spirit healer spell was vital too.

[alanschu]

I encourge you to take him in a few battles with default stats, tactics and equipment on normal setting and tell me how much you have to baby sit him vs the others to keep him alive. I'd enjoy hearing your feedback on that.

 

I needed to do some playing around, so I made a 2H warrior human noble. So far I have put all my points into strength (8 total), but then I plan on changing to 2 str 1 will and am going to see how that goes.

[HoonDing]

i second the cauthrien vote. she'd be way overpowered though. she tore through my entire party TWICE before i was able to beat her... she shrugged off all my attempts at crushing prison or cone of cold, the only way i was able to take her out was to put leliana behind her and just backstab the hell out of her while having alistair do nothing but drink potions and taunt. morrigan using the 4th level spirit healer spell was vital too.

Yeh.

 

Vulnerability & Death Hex saved my party in that battle. Hardest fight in the game, by far.

[entrerix]

did death hex actually work on her?

 

it seemed to me like she was immune to all my spells

[Volourn]

"And Volourn you're right, but I still never put points into constitution."

 

I should clarify that I rarely do too. Con is certainly the most important stat. But, it does help.

 

 

 

"*shrugs* I encourge you to take him in a few battles with default stats, tactics and equipment on normal setting and tell me how much you have to baby sit him vs the others to keep him alive. I'd enjoy hearing your feedback on that."

 

*shrugs* I did.. until I got Ogrhen since I like dwarves I took him. btw, He's also into 2 handed weapons. Sten did fine with default AI as I'm concentrating on playing the mages. Sure, he takes damage, but so does everybody. My mages were more likely to fall than my either of my melees, or rogue (when I actually used Leliana).

 

There is no clear cut built that outclasses all except I guess the arane warrior built since I haven't tried that one. But, outside of shapechanger, nothing is utterly useless. Some of the most tough enemies are the ones who use 2 handed weapons as well. Sure, easy to hit them, but they do mondo damge - not to mention the sweep attack ability or the auto knock down chance talent. WOWSERS!

[TheHarlequin]

I went into one battle with Sten, Wynne and 15 health potions. At the end of the battle, Sten had died twice, been revived AND had drunk all my danged health potions. I SO wished for a "change party" button in that dungeon, but it was the Urn of Ashes thing, it went on FOREVER and, being out of health potions, it wasn't a healthy time for any of us.

 

I don't bother with Sten any more. I'll only take him on his personal quest, then back to camp for the big lug pantywaist.

 

With his default low con AND dex hes simply has little to offer vs other more robust party members. I was somewhat having the same issue with the dwarf, I then installed the respec mod, did that to both leh and the dwarf. leh is a duel weapon specilist now (I find DW better then archers generally) and the dwarf a 1h/shield specilist. Both kick serious arse now. I also did that to sten but kept him 2h but evened his stats out. he now has about a 22 con and dex. MUCH more robust and versitile as a 2H specilist then his default setting which were mostly a death sentence for him. He hits slow but at least he hits now... heh

Edited November 23, 2009 by TheHarlequin

[Bos_hybrid]

i second the cauthrien vote. she'd be way overpowered though. she tore through my entire party TWICE before i was able to beat her... she shrugged off all my attempts at crushing prison or cone of cold,

 

Blood magic is particularly effective in that battle. I wish it could be used in conversations.

[HoonDing]

did death hex actually work on her?

 

it seemed to me like she was immune to all my spells

I was certainly able to freeze her a couple of times after a vulnerability hex... Force field lasted only 4 seconds or so, though.

 

I'm not sure, but I don't think Hexes can be resisted... otherwise playing on Nightmare difficulty would be... a nightmare.

Edited November 23, 2009 by virumor

[entrerix]

i actually wish she was a bigger part of the game since she was about ten times the warrior of loghain it seemed weird she was relegated to such a small role

[TheHarlequin]

did death hex actually work on her?

 

it seemed to me like she was immune to all my spells

 

Seems thats biowares way of saving zots on AI, give bosses and some elities massive magic resistence to nullify casters for the most part in the fight and then give said NPC unrealistic stats to make the battle more 'epic'. Not saying such in a negative way just a simple, but accurate IMO, observation.