So the main conflict in AP would be Left and Right?

[Purkake]

We don't have ALL that much to talk about here though. LoF is like the spice of the forums. We need him !

He's the...uh, "byproduct" of giant worms and makes your eyes glow?

 

Nice setup

 

[Oner]

We don't have ALL that much to talk about here though. LoF is like the spice of the forums. We need him !

He's the...uh, "byproduct" of giant worms and makes your eyes glow?

 

Nice setup

 

Dunecat! I haven't seen you in years!

[Rostere]

Well, I assume that the developers will put more focus on Communist -related ideologies since the People demanded that the game would be delayed to offer more dialogue of that fashion (like for example "Collectivise", which we have seen in a screenshot).

 

I mean, if you can choose James Bond, Jason Bourne or Jack Bauer, why not Joel Barr? For those of us bent towards Stalinism and a non- violent approach.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Both Barr and Sarant were trained and employed as electrical engineers and worked on military radar. Barr was discovered by counterintelligence to be a Communist and was fired. He and Sarant then found employment with Western Electric and worked on a highly secret radar bombsight. Barr and Sarant gave the USSR over 9,000 pages of documents detailing over 100 weapons systems.

lolz

[Rostere]

Both Barr and Sarant were trained and employed as electrical engineers and worked on military radar. Barr was discovered by counterintelligence to be a Communist and was fired. He and Sarant then found employment with Western Electric and worked on a highly secret radar bombsight. Barr and Sarant gave the USSR over 9,000 pages of documents detailing over 100 weapons systems.

lolz

 

Bomb sights and weapon systems don't kill people, capitalists do...

[Wrath of Dagon]

Here's an even more amazing tale of Communist espionage: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28317.html

[213374U]

Stalinism and a non- violent approach.

Does not compute. Edited October 15, 2009 by 213374U

[Oner]

Here's an even more amazing tale of Communist espionage: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28317.html

I doubt this beats the story of the Cold War CIA spy-mic-cat (which cost several million dollars to develop) that got hit by a car on it's first assignment in front of the target building.

[Rostere]

Stalinism and a non- violent approach.

Does not compute.

 

Please, I'm trying to do some decent trolling here!

[lord of flies]

Stalinism and a non- violent approach.

Does not compute.

Stalin acted in self-defense, most of the people he purged were counter revol-

 

Oh **** it, I can't do it.

[Purkake]

Great guys, now you broke LoF.

[Raithe]

Great guys, now you broke LoF.

 

It was bound to happen sooner or later... After all, we got to watch communism break once already...

[lord of flies]

Ah, look, a couple of children that don't know about my Trotskyism.

Edited October 15, 2009 by lord of flies

[Purkake]

Your Trotskyism has nothing on my Glasnost.

[Raithe]

Trotskyism.. Glasnost..

 

Who cares, just as long as someone remembers to bring the vodka..

[Purkake]

Trotskyism.. Glasnost..

 

Who cares, just as long as someone remembers to bring the vodka..

There's no party like the communist party!

 

[Raithe]

There's no party like the communist party!

 

The only question becomes... Who pays for the Vodka?

[Purkake]

No one, it belongs to everyone.

[Raithe]

"Che - You can spend your whole life combatting the forces of capitalism, you still might wind up on a t-shirt sold in a store owned by the Gap..."

[213374U]

Owned.

 

Literally!

[Darth InSidious]

I just hope there's a strong distributist path.

[kreese12]

Having studied political theory a bit in university, personally I feel an anarcho-syndicalist state would be the best way to develop a new society. I'm all for personal freedom and I sincerely believe that any government will be destined to be used against the people of the state over time. However I'm also a realist and think that the battle for forms of government has already been lost.

 

Maybe if the anarchists won the Spanish Civil War a different situation would have developed. But as it is now, capitalism and the power structures are far too entrenched to be removed. Even China has been overcome by the Western capitalist system. We live in a homogeneous world now.

 

Our technology and financial international inter-dependency is also too far advanced for their to be any sort of successful revolution to massively change things. Revolutions are still possible but I think think they'd be able to change anything away from the standard capitalist situation in the 1st world unless their are some global catastrophes such as flooding, water crises, and we run out of oil (which isn't going to happen because of Alberta Canada) .

[Rostere]

On a serious note, capitalism is for me more like an emergent law of nature like evolution than an ideology. But having said that, I'm not saying capitalism should be given free reins (anarchy). It's a bit like the nature we live in, we compromise it by building heated houses and using clothes, but there will always be an outside environment regardless of our efforts.

 

BTW, I think Purkake should provide the vodka

[kreese12]

I dunno about that. I could see where you are coming from, but I don't think it is an emergent law of nature. It just seems like that because capitalism dominates instead of other forms of economic exchange.

 

It's possible to have social systems that doesn't involve money. For example , in some First Nations tribes, your social status wasn't based on how much money you had. In fact they didn't have money. Instead they used bartering, and the person who could throw the best party (i.e the biggest potlach dinner for the tribe) was seen as the tribal leader. Instead of the selfish (people who often enrich themselves at the expense of underpaid substance wages) becoming the 'upper class' of society, it was the most generous people that were appreciated in this form of society.

 

I'm not saying capitalism is wrong. It does have some good points to it, and it works a lot better than other systems. But it isn't the only system. And the nature of capitalism is to punish the majority with lower standards of live to provide wealth for the small minority on top (I don't think anyone would argue this?) We are getting to the point technologically where it is scientific plausible and conceivable that we could all work far less and still have an abundance of resources and food for everyone. But 95% of the world's wealth is held by 1% of the people.*

 

Modern democracy doesn't really help matters either. The people that make successful politicians in our current system are actually just about some of the worst people that you want in charge of your government. As capital moves further from a national level to a transnational level, it seems all but certain that corporations will become more powerful entities, and when that happens, with a profit margin ahead of societal well-being on the agenda, living conditions for most people are going to plummet much further.

 

*making that number up, but it's something like that

Edited October 15, 2009 by kreese12

[Orogun01]

kreese, while what you say about tribal living is true it can't be applied on the large number of people that live on society. Bartering isn't enough for big exchanges that's why the necessity of a bartering chip began, thus proto-money. Plus there is the fact that some are going to be greedy, want for more than they deserve; tribal economy works mostly because there is only a primitive notion of evil.

About modern democracy, the flaws that you counted are the same flaws that are inherent to the democratic system. But your economic doomsday scenario seems unlikely, just because conglomerates grow doesn't mean that they will siphon the wealth out of society. But you seem to be thinking along the lines of Marx, so congrats tovarish you have joined the struggle.