So I got to thinking about games communities, Intellectual Property....

[entrerix]

doesnt mean it cant be done of course, heck, if tower defense games and 2d fighting games can make a come-back, then turn based strategy games should have no problem, all it takes is for a talented group to make it happen.

 

i'd have no complaints about a rt jagged alliance, as long as its not called jagged alliance 3.

 

sequels should have the same basic gameplay style.

 

fallout 3 should have been called Fallout: DC.

[Purkake]

They all did something right, like the destructible terrain in SS and the super awesome research system and pretty cool real time with pause combat system from UFO: Afterlight etc.

 

Seriously, check out the UFO: Afterlight demo if you like tactical strategy games and haven't played it yet.

 

@entrerix: Names are arbitrary and in the end meaningless. Who cares what they call it, that's the least important thing.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Purkake

[entrerix]

i care, and names DO matter. names are worth billions of dollars. good will, reputation, reliability, credit, all these things are attached to names. it's wise to appreciate their power. also you can unravel the basic makeup of demons and gods by speaking their true name, so you best respect the name.

 

[Purkake]

Don't you dare go all Planescape-y on my ass.

 

What I'm saying is that the quality of the game will remain the same whether you call it Fallout, Fallout 3, Fallout: The Anti-NMA Edition or Wasteland Simulator 2010. It's just a sign on the box.

 

Obviously everyone will try to use the name that will get them the most sales, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the game itself. Just because you don't think FO3 is worthy of the name, doesn't make it so.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Purkake

[alanschu]

Silent Storm was actually very solid. I would be very happy to see more Silent Storm games. Unfortunately the games tend to be very buggy that have used the engine.

 

 

Silent Storm was a fantastic game until they decided to go and make panzerklein ****.

[entrerix]

calling fallout 3 fallout DC would have sidestepped the entire debate about whether it was a "true sequel", and would have shut down a TON of the angry rabid fanbase. that fact alone shows the power behind a name.

 

it doesnt change the quality of the game for certain, i'm just pointing out that it changes peoples perceptions, and controlling the perceptions of your public is very important for anyone trying to market something.

 

it MIGHT even have gathered some NMA support : "The best offshoot of the series since tactics, we hope someday a company will make a proper sequel though etc etc"

[alanschu]

The NMA vitriol probably just helped with publicity for the game, if anything.

 

 

I doubt there'd be any significant amount of sales difference had the name been different.

[Zoraptor]

On Deus Ex, the sales figures for DX and DXIW were in the presentation Squeenix did when buying Eidos. It showed DXIW selling around 50% more copies than DX did (800k vs 1.2m, iirc) which seemed really weird given that public perception of DXIW was so bad they changed Project Snowblind from being a DX universe game because of it.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Silent Storm was actually very solid. I would be very happy to see more Silent Storm games. Unfortunately the games tend to be very buggy that have used the engine.

 

Silent Storm was a fantastic game until they decided to go and make panzerklein ****.

 

 

But the "remove panzerkleins" mod was also the first mod released for it, and it worked excellently.

[entrerix]

The NMA vitriol probably just helped with publicity for the game, if anything.

 

 

I doubt there'd be any significant amount of sales difference had the name been different.

 

 

dont get me wrong, im not saying it would have helped sales, im just saying that less people would hate beth right now if the name was not fallout3.

 

as for myself, my hate of beth went out the window once they gave obsidian a shot at making the next game. also, i actually liked fallout 3. even though its not a real sequel to fallout 2

[Purkake]

dont get me wrong, im not saying it would have helped sales, im just saying that less people would hate beth right now if the name was not fallout3.

 

I'm just going to say this once, but that is seriously their problem and not Beth's.

[Hurlshort]

dont get me wrong, im not saying it would have helped sales, im just saying that less people would hate beth right now if the name was not fallout3.

 

I'm just going to say this once, but that is seriously their problem and not Beth's.

 

I'll say it a second time for you. There are probably about a dozen folks who hate Beth over naming the game Fallout 3, and that is really not even a blip on their radar.

[alanschu]

Silent Storm was actually very solid. I would be very happy to see more Silent Storm games. Unfortunately the games tend to be very buggy that have used the engine.

 

Silent Storm was a fantastic game until they decided to go and make panzerklein ****.

 

 

But the "remove panzerkleins" mod was also the first mod released for it, and it worked excellently.

 

 

Then I should look into it again

[alanschu]

The NMA vitriol probably just helped with publicity for the game, if anything.

 

 

I doubt there'd be any significant amount of sales difference had the name been different.

 

 

dont get me wrong, im not saying it would have helped sales, im just saying that less people would hate beth right now if the name was not fallout3.

 

as for myself, my hate of beth went out the window once they gave obsidian a shot at making the next game. also, i actually liked fallout 3. even though its not a real sequel to fallout 2

 

 

I like Fallout 3 and have no problems considering Fallout 3 to be the sequel to the game. Though I enjoyed Fallout 1 and 2 more, there is clearly not going to be anything resembling those games any time soon.

 

It's not like I was hoodwinked into what I was thinking Fallout 3 was going to be. It was pretty obvious from the get go. People place too much significance in the name, and the fact that Fallout 3 is the sequel to the Fallout games does nothing to tarnish the experiences that are the first two Fallout games.

 

I'd probably be a bit more shocked if Fallout 3 had come out significantly sooner than 10 years after Fallout 2. But at the same time, I wasn't making a big deal when SWAT 2 did not resemble the first SWAT, or that SWAT 3 was completely different than SWAT 2.

[alanschu]

On Deus Ex, the sales figures for DX and DXIW were in the presentation Squeenix did when buying Eidos. It showed DXIW selling around 50% more copies than DX did (800k vs 1.2m, iirc) which seemed really weird given that public perception of DXIW was so bad they changed Project Snowblind from being a DX universe game because of it.

 

 

The little chart I saw didn't seem to indicate that the difference was quite that significant. Hard to make out though.

 

 

(found here http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfanta...6&mode=news )

 

 

I suspect a lot of that simply has to do with the presence on the XBOX. While there was a PS2 version of the original, I think it was a lower profile port (from an anecdotal point of view).

 

Any idea what the breakdown was of sales for IW?

[Malcador]

Eh they should stick to the roots of a series, but they won't as it won't sell. Sadly that means we get crap like Rainbow Six Vegas, or OpFlash :DR, heh.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Malcador

[Gorth]

Eh they should stick to the roots of a series, but they won't as it won't sell. Sadly that means we get crap like Rainbow Six Vegas, or OpFlash :DR, heh.

Master of Orion 3

 

I rest my case

[Slowtrain]

Master of Orion 3

 

*hurts*

[alanschu]

Well, I didn't really think that Master of Orion 3 really differed that much from its roots. It tried different things but it was still clearly a 4X Space game.

 

But other games that weren't very similar to their predecessors that I really enjoyed were stuff like:

 

Duke 3D (shift to first person)

SWAT 3 (heh...big differences from 1-3)

Quake 2 (technically had nothing to do with Quake one near as I can tell)

 

Some are a bit weaker.

 

Ultima VII shifted to a real-time combat system and some different mechanics compared to VI. Mind you, the entire Ultima franchise changed a lot over the course of its series.

 

 

All the Final Fantasy games are pretty independent of each other story wise, though gameplay wise they are definitely similar.

[Mamoulian War]

On Deus Ex, the sales figures for DX and DXIW were in the presentation Squeenix did when buying Eidos. It showed DXIW selling around 50% more copies than DX did (800k vs 1.2m, iirc) which seemed really weird given that public perception of DXIW was so bad they changed Project Snowblind from being a DX universe game because of it.

 

 

selling more copies does not automaticaly means having bigger profit... Blame the people behind the game budget making

[Nightshape]

Eh they should stick to the roots of a series, but they won't as it won't sell. Sadly that means we get crap like Rainbow Six Vegas, or OpFlash :DR, heh.

 

Thankfully nobody of any importance thinks like you, else we'd be looking at a bunch of very dead IP's.

 

Edit: And more dead development studio's.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Nightshape

[Malcador]

Thankfully nobody of any importance thinks like you, else we'd be looking at a bunch of very dead IP's.

 

Edit: And more dead development studio's.

 

Yeah, it'd be a tragedy if Vegas were never made for sure, hehe. In that case (and most of them I'd say) the IP's better off dead than twisted.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Malcador

[Purkake]

It would be nice to see some more new IPs instead of the increasing serialization that's going on now.

[Masterfade]

It would be nice to see some more new IPs instead of the increasing serialization that's going on now.

 

Not likely for AAA titles though. Serialization is natural in a hit-driven, billion-dollar business where sequels generally get better.

 

We're rather lucky these years as BioWare is moving from licensed IPs to original IPs. Gaming will become even duller after BioWare finishes the transition and begins to fill its pipelines with Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age II (yeah it's my bet Bioware will use Roman numeral for DA!)

[Hurlshort]

There will always be new IP's coming out, because existing IP's do degrade over time, especially when over saturated. Might and Magic and Tomb Raider are a few that have reached that point. They have to take time off and then maybe they will get a rebirth.