Bioware/Bethesda appreciation thread

[Volourn]

No, I won't. I don't respond in a civil manner to pitiful insults meant to troll with someone who doens't want to discuss but to simply exchange insults. Choose one or the other.

 

It's funny I'm the lunatic when even Alanshu is siding with me on this issue. L0L

 

 

 

"explain in clear terms so we can understand your apparent lunacy"

 

Seriously? Seriously. Why would I give you a clear example when all youa re doing is trolling to get a response so you can throw more lame insults my way instead of actual debate? L0L Pathetic troll attempt.

 

Stick on topic: NWN is better at *role-playing* than BG is. Period.

[entrerix]

my lunacy thing wasnt an insult.

 

if you can actually explain it in clear terms then you clearly wouldnt be crazy...

 

it just sounds crazy when you say it so i want to hear your not crazy reasoning

 

if you have any

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Why is it whenever Volourn says anything, we start arguing about NWN?

[Volourn]

"my lunacy thing wasnt an insult."

 

Dunno about you but being called a lunatic isn't a compliment where I come from.

 

 

 

"if you can actually explain it in clear terms then you clearly wouldnt be crazy..."

 

Do a search on the Obsidian, BIO, Codex, Atari, and several other sites to find out why I think what i think about NWN. I don't feel like going into deep detail over a 6 year old game with people I know who won't agree anyways and will just use it as another lame reason for throwing insults.

 

They can do that with DA or ME2 since they're actually new.

[alanschu]

Like I said, it's been a long time since I played either game, but from what I remember NWN was better at allowing your character to progress through the game in a slightly different way. Particularly through skill checks in conversations. The thing I always found silly about BG1/2 is that my attributes and alignment had no significant bearing on how I played through the game, outside of combat. I had a Paladin with 3 intelligence that was just as capable of solving riddles as a Mage with 18, just as fluent in speech.

 

It seemed like NPCs more frequently responded to my character's attributes and abilities in NWN than BG2. Plus, decisions would actually affect your alignment in some way shape and form. The only instance I can remember of this happening in BG2 was when you unleashed the beast at the endgame with Sarevok.

 

Throne of Bhaal was a bit better, but then again, so was HotU with character epilogues very much reflecting how you treated characters and how you interacted with them.

[entrerix]

again I will point out that my lunacy comment was not intended as an insult.

 

I don't often choose to insult people and this is hardly a case for it

 

I was being genuine with a side of humor that didnt translate

 

so my apologies for insinuating you were an actual lunatic. I did not mean to offend you.

 

your comment just caught me off guard because it was so far outside the realm of what I was expecting (i've never before encountered someone who actually thought nwn was more of a roleplaying game than BG2)

[Volourn]

That's because people tend to think that because BG2 is the more 'fun'/'better' game than NWN that it atitomatically makes it more of a RPG. It doesn't. Like I said, I like BG2 more than NWN OC. Easily. BG2 is tied for my #1 favorite RPG along with FO2; but better at being a RPG? No, not even close. Alanshu covers why quite a bit in his post.

[kingofsquid]

Is this thing turning into another damn flamewar?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

No, it's just everyone vs Volo like always.

[Maria Caliban]

I thought the low intelligence conversation tree in NWN was a great deal of effort for very little pay off. I didn't even know they existed until I opened the OC in the toolset. Outside of comedy, the savior of X isn

[alanschu]

It is just comedy, but it was hilarious.

 

Fallout's low int still takes the cake.

[Hurlshort]

No, it's just everyone vs Volo like always.

 

Actually I agree with Volo's main argument, and alanschu seems to as well.

 

 

But sometimes he argues with us even when we agree with him, so it's not always worth it to jump in and side with him. I have no idea why he spends so much time here, since he seems to dislike everybody here.

[Volourn]

"Actually I agree with Volo's main argument, and alanschu seems to as well.

 

 

But sometimes he argues with us even when we agree with him"

 

Except.. your comment here don't make sense... I'm not arguing with Alanshu.... and, like you said why would I? He basically agrees with me...

 

 

" I have no idea why he spends so much time here, since he seems to dislike everybody here."

 

You have no idea despite the fact I've told you my reasons more than half a dozen times? L0LZ

 

 

"Fallout's low int still takes the cake"

 

Espicially FO2.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Volourn

[Aristes]

Aw, he might dislike us, but I'm fond of him. No same sex romances, though. I'm married.

 

I think the problem is, and here I'm siding with Volourn. Folks equate good gaming experience with better rpg experience, but BG2 was much more of a tactical combat sim than RPG. Like a lot of action RPGs, your primary choices settled on your character stats. I don't think NWN was a very good RPG, but I can see the potential of RPG with a group. At the time, I had folks to play PnP and I actually prefer my RPGs PnP anyhow.

 

I don't think NWN was a better game, but I do think that it tried harder to incorporate RPG elements and I think it was by and large more successful in meaningful RPG than BG2.

 

Then again, I think PS:T was better in terms of letting you define your character than either one and yet some folks go bat**** at the idea because you didn't have the option to choose your starting character in PS:T. RPG in terms of computers can be such a nebulous term.

[Monte Carlo]

but BG2 was much more of a tactical combat sim than RPG.

 

Praise the Lord (and pass the ammunition). That's why I like it so much, along with the IWD games.

 

That's why Dragon Age is interesting, because Bio are TRYING TO DO IT ALL. I'm sure the end product will fall five miles short of the gargantuan plume of hype, but at least they seem to accept that plot, fleshed-out NPCs and crunchy tactical combat aren't necessarily contradictory.

 

My favourite NPC is Llyranor, the idiotic talking sword from BG2 along with all the action-movie stereotypes from JA2. Sometimes less is more, Bejaysus the time I spend clicking through pointless NPC dialogue (::Cough::MaskoftheBetrayer::Cough:...

[alanschu]

"Actually I agree with Volo's main argument, and alanschu seems to as well.

 

 

But sometimes he argues with us even when we agree with him"

 

Except.. your comment here don't make sense... I'm not arguing with Alanshu.... and, like you said why would I? He basically agrees with me...

 

I do have vague recollections of you sometimes aggressively agreeing though Volourn hehehe. I could be remembering stuff incorrectly though.

 

 

My favourite NPC is Llyranor, the idiotic talking sword from BG2

 

Even I remember the name of that sword is the Lirlacor, and it's been years since I last played it

 

 

"I'm a sword okay? Not an axe. I don't chop wood."

[Monte Carlo]

^ My bad.

 

Actually, now I've thought about it some more, I remember Coran from BG1 as being a favourite NPC: a useful party member (in fact, used correctly a dungeon level-clearing death god given the sick powaz of archery and backstab in BG1 - both Coran's specialities) with a deftly drawn character and a sad little vignette about his deadbeat dad status that put his romeo persona into context. All in about twenty lines of dialogue and a funny portrait.

 

And they left him out of BG2 as a joinable NPC to make you take Yoshimo as your party thief, deus ex machina.

 

Like I said, sometimes less is more.

 

Cheers

MC

[Hurlshort]

I'm pretty sure all idiotic talking swords are named Llyranor.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I wrote this little piece in a moment of boredom, and though its most (un)appreciative. Dont take it too seriously.

 

Once upon a time there was a kid that really liked playing computer games. He

[Darth InSidious]

That's not quite fair...

 

KotOR was a much better game than Mass Effect.

[RPGmasterBoo]

That's not quite fair...

 

KotOR was a much better game than Mass Effect.

 

It was, and I was merely commenting on it cloning KOTOR (while losing just about everything that game did good). Don't take it too seriously, it was written to be light entertainment For the record its BG/BGII>KOTOR>Jade Empire>ME>NWN in my book.

[ramza]

You forgot the following games: Planescape, IWD 1 and 2, ToEE, The Witcher, Kotor II and NWN II (with its expansions).

I could have been playing Infinity Engines games for my whole life if they kept making new adventures for it. I am not a graphics whore and do not care much about cinematics. All I want is a similar experience as that of BG 2 and I have yet to see that. Some Bio games came close to it but never reached it.

 

Don't get me wrong, BG2 was quite linear and the motivations of Irenicus were laughable. However, it was the way the setting (Amn) and the quests were designed that made it great and kept you busy for at least 100 hours.

 

I am waiting to see what Obz' next project is and I will then decide if I will give up any hopes for this company... Bio is a lost case for me and I don't even want to talk about Beth (they are not getting my money even if they are the last western "rpg" producer left)...

[Hurlshort]

That's not quite fair...

 

KotOR was a much better game than Mass Effect.

 

Yeah, no, not really. They were basically the same game.

 

And if you are named Darth, you are probably biased towards the Star Wars universe, so you might want to keep that in mind when judging the two.

[RPGmasterBoo]

You forgot the following games: Planescape, IWD 1 and 2, ToEE, The Witcher, Kotor II and NWN II (with its expansions).

I could have been playing Infinity Engines games for my whole life if they kept making new adventures for it. I am not a graphics whore and do not care much about cinematics. All I want is a similar experience as that of BG 2 and I have yet to see that. Some Bio games came close to it but never reached it.

 

It was primarily a story about Bioware, not my entire RPG experience though the Witcher is mentioned towards the end

[Volourn]

"KotOR was a much better game than Mass Effect. "

 

No, no it isn't. In fact, ME is 10x better than KOTOR. I do agree they have lots of common but the cool thing about ME is it does everything better than KOTOR.

 

KOTOR is BIO worst game (still good) is really overrated.