Political Cartoons

[Meshugger]

Oh, i forgot.

 

GD: In what way was Clinton more of a centrist later, compared to his policies before? Other than his healthcare-reform that tanked in '93.

[Guard Dog]

So far Texas, Oklahoma, Alaska, Idaho, North and South Dakota, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Louisiana have all passed resolutions asserting state sovereignty...

 

That bull**** again? Don't they know that the Civil War effectively ended the main backing of the "States' Rights" movement?

 

Hardly. Ever heard of the 10th Amendment? Personally I'd rather see the US break up than abandon Federalisim. And I am most certainly not alone. But I'd really rather see the government restrain itself to is Constitutionally defined role and never even have this discussion.

[Humodour]

I do wonder if you are in fact a troll, role-playing an extreme left-wing stereotype to provoke debate, if so I take my hat off to you. Bravo.

 

Pretty sure he is.

[Hurlshort]

I do wonder if you are in fact a troll, role-playing an extreme left-wing stereotype to provoke debate, if so I take my hat off to you. Bravo.

 

Pretty sure he is.

 

I actually think he's a complex bot created to go around provoking debate. Just a theory. The guy is hilarious though, some of the most entertaining stuff I've seen since chris the jedi killer.

[Aristes]

So far Texas, Oklahoma, Alaska, Idaho, North and South Dakota, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Louisiana have all passed resolutions asserting state sovereignty...

 

That bull**** again? Don't they know that the Civil War effectively ended the main backing of the "States' Rights" movement?

Actually, resolutions such as these have been part of our history since well before the Civil War. I believe states introduced the first of such similar resolutions during Adams second administration, but I could be wrong. The tension between state and federal power was certainly an issue of contention before we adopted the constitution and that very document shows how thoroughly the states adhered to the principle of their own sovereignty. If you think the Civil War resolved that issue entirely, you're simply wrong. In fact, there has been discussion of secession popping up for years. The gravest misfortune is that the Civil War, which was ostensibly fought over the state's right to secede what inextricably tangled with the individual's right to possess slaves. I don't think secession is a wise move for any state, but I agree with Guard Dog in that a lot of Obama's moves to consolidate even more power to the federal government are unwise, Civil War or not.

[lord of flies]

Go on, admit it, you think it would be OK to overthrow democratically elected governments in a leftist military coup. Maybe you'd love to put on your Che-like beret and bandolier and machinegun the running dogs of capitalism. Think about it: is there about a quarter of an inch between the position you espouse and that of those you purport to despise?

 

I do wonder if you are in fact a troll, role-playing an extreme left-wing stereotype to provoke debate, if so I take my hat off to you. Bravo.

Actually, I believe that a violent, unpopular revolution irrevocably militarizes a communist society, leaving long-term scars that cannot really be healed. For an example, see the USSR; because the Bolsheviks attempted to take control against popular will, they militarized in a very nasty way. Most notably, this lead to the creation of the Cheka, who later developed into the NKVD and KGB. Without the RCW, the Cheka would not have existed, and thus neither would the NKVD and KGB.

 

PS: Stop calling me a troll.

[GreasyDogMeat]

PS: Stop calling me a troll.

 

Yeah, stop call LoF a troll.

 

It gets in the way of his trolling.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Actually, resolutions such as these have been part of our history since well before the Civil War.

 

True. But the main issue was settled then, or at least it should have been, and it lost much of its power - something that is now coming back... Ironicaly, or maybe not, many of the States that are now passing these items are ex-Slave Sates.

[Hurlshort]

PS: Stop calling me a troll.

 

What is your purpose on this forum then? You don't take part in any other discussions, you've only participated in threads about political dogma, and you are very argumentative with pretty much everyone. That seems like the definition of a troll.

[Aristes]

The point is that the Civil War didn't settle anything in regards to state rights permanently. I think it was a definitive blow to states rights that kept the idea down for several decades and still dogs it today, but nothing is permanent in history. By the way, I had several of my liberal friends telling me that there would be a rebellion because Bush made it into office and then, because it simply could not have happened, they were sure that there was a conspiracy and voter tampering that allowed Bush to win his second term. Frankly, I think the Democrats have it better in the fraudulent vote department, but both sides try their best to get votes and some of the methods on both sides are unsavory or even fraudulent. The point is, it's not just the conservatives who talk about secession, although conservatives are more likely to rattle that saber and more likely to be serious when they do. How serious is the question. Serious as New England's Hartford Convention during Madison's administration? I don't know. Talk of secession has been around for a long time, but it's such a dreadful step, it's only been tried once and that was an ill-advised decision.

 

For myself, I am not an Obama fan. I don't think he's Satan or evil or a communist like I've heard from several friends. Mostly, at this point, I just think he's inept. Still, it's in no state's interest to break off from the union. The only reason to break the common trust is if the federal government literally usurped the constitution, which was most flagrantly previously done during the Civil War, but that was because of the Civil War. In fact, the Civil War gave excuses to President Lincoln to overstep federal authority that he would otherwise never have had. The Civil War itself isn't a state rights problem, regardless of arguments to the contrary. It was simply a slavery question and even if the south had succeeded, it would have suffered at any rate. The southern dream of forging commercial ties with Britain and Europe would be, in my opinion, doomed to failure. The south today is not the south of the Civil War. Northerners and Westerners are fooling themselves if they think of the south as nothing more than a collection of hicks. Sure, someone can post glib IQ charts and other nonsense, but the south has been growing commercially, economically, and in population for a long time. It supplies a lot of the armed forces and the fact that many southerners (wisely) don't take secession seriously is balanced by the fact that many more of the northerners and westerners are less willing to fight them to keep them in the union. This secession nonsense sucks, but the fact that so many people are unconcerned about states rights sucks just as much.

[Humodour]

PS: Stop calling me a troll.

 

Stop being a troll.

[Monte Carlo]

Actually, I believe that a violent, unpopular revolution irrevocably militarizes a communist society, leaving long-term scars that cannot really be healed. For an example, see the USSR; because the Bolsheviks attempted to take control against popular will, they militarized in a very nasty way. Most notably, this lead to the creation of the Cheka, who later developed into the NKVD and KGB. Without the RCW, the Cheka would not have existed, and thus neither would the NKVD and KGB.

 

PS: Stop calling me a troll.

 

C minus for sophistry. You qualified that with a 'unpopular' revolution. A popular violent one would be OK though, especially if there were hammers and sickles all over the uniforms. Revolutions are almost always violent and the counter-revolutions even more so, the 'Velvet Revolutions' of the early 90's weren't actually revolutions - they were the consequences of collapse so they don't count. Unless you believe that one morning class consciousness will be acheived without Year Zero.

 

History teaches us that the left are far more accomplished at terror and repression than the political right, especially in the latter half of the twentieth century.

 

As for the trolling, stop behaving like one comrade and I'll consider it.

 

Cheers tovaritch,

MC

 

p.s. as I said in another thread, it's twenty years since I stood and watched the Berlin Wall come down - there's nothing more enervating than watching totalitarianism crumble, literally, in front of your eyes.

[Humodour]

it's twenty years since I stood and watched the Berlin Wall come down - there's nothing more enervating than watching totalitarianism crumble, literally, in front of your eyes.

 

I wish I could've been there to see that.

[Hurlshort]

I just went through Lord of Flies post history, and every single one of them is argumentative. It's quite a portfolio, probably about 150 pure troll posts.

 

We aren't calling you a troll because you argue. We argue about stuff with each other all the time here. We are calling you a troll because you are not part of the community, you show up for the sole purpose of arguing. But hey, whatever makes you happy, I find it entertaining.

 

(there was one post where he asked for his Trotsky avatar to be made. He didn't argue there, but he did argue within that thread. So that might disqualify him from troll of the year.)

[lord of flies]

C minus for sophistry. You qualified that with a 'unpopular' revolution. A popular violent one would be OK though, especially if there were hammers and sickles all over the uniforms. Revolutions are almost always violent and the counter-revolutions even more so, the 'Velvet Revolutions' of the early 90's weren't actually revolutions - they were the consequences of collapse so they don't count. Unless you believe that one morning class consciousness will be acheived without Year Zero.

Yes, if a violent revolution was popular it would by definition have to take place in a non-democratic state, and therefore would be completely justifiable..

 

History teaches us that the left are far more accomplished at terror and repression than the political right, especially in the latter half of the twentieth century.

Hmm, which country was it that, during the Cold War, committed one of the most insidious acts of genocide since the Holocaust? Was it a Soviet aligned country? Or was it a country receiving US military aid under Jimmy Carter?

 

We aren't calling you a troll because you argue. We argue about stuff with each other all the time here. We are calling you a troll because you are not part of the community, you show up for the sole purpose of arguing. But hey, whatever makes you happy, I find it entertaining.

I don't post if I don't have anything to say, which I guess makes me better than the rest of your so-called "community." Edited August 2, 2009 by lord of flies

[Guard Dog]

This clown is someone's alt. I thought it might be Pop at first but he's not angry enough and not smart enough. He's too smart to be Sand and too motivated to be a few others I could think of. Keep posting flies, everyone on this board has a tell and yours will come out. I'm betting you don't believe a word of your screed, in fact you are probably someone who visits the board occasionally and got drummed out of a few debates with some of the others here. Or as Monte said you are just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

[Hurlshort]

We aren't calling you a troll because you argue. We argue about stuff with each other all the time here. We are calling you a troll because you are not part of the community, you show up for the sole purpose of arguing. But hey, whatever makes you happy, I find it entertaining.

I don't post if I don't have anything to say, which I guess makes me better than the rest of your so-called "community."

 

I guess if being one dimensional makes you superior, then you are the winner.

[lord of flies]

This clown is someone's alt. I thought it might be Pop at first but he's not angry enough and not smart enough. He's too smart to be Sand and too motivated to be a few others I could think of. Keep posting flies, everyone on this board has a tell and yours will come out. I'm betting you don't believe a word of your screed, in fact you are probably someone who visits the board occasionally and got drummed out of a few debates with some of the others here. Or as Monte said you are just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

None of you has ever beaten me in a debate.

 

Okay, though, I'm gonna come out and admit it. I'm Krezack. Sorry guys, I just have a dream, and it's orthodox Marxism with a shade of Trotskyism.

[Guard Dog]

Okay, though, I'm gonna come out and admit it. I'm Krezack. Sorry guys, I just have a dream, and it's orthodox Marxism with a shade of Trotskyism.

 

That would have been my next guess!

[Pidesco]

This clown is someone's alt. I thought it might be Pop at first but he's not angry enough and not smart enough. He's too smart to be Sand and too motivated to be a few others I could think of. Keep posting flies, everyone on this board has a tell and yours will come out. I'm betting you don't believe a word of your screed, in fact you are probably someone who visits the board occasionally and got drummed out of a few debates with some of the others here. Or as Monte said you are just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

None of you has ever beaten me in a debate.

 

Okay, though, I'm gonna come out and admit it. I'm Krezack. Sorry guys, I just have a dream, and it's orthodox Marxism with a shade of Trotskyism.

 

 

Your IP isn't in the same range as Krez's. Proxy much?

[lord of flies]

Your IP isn't in the same range as Krez's. Proxy much?

Of course I use a proxy, my privacy is very important to me. Edited August 2, 2009 by lord of flies

[kirottu]

None of you has ever beaten me in a debate.

 

...

 

This is the internets. Nobody never loses debates here.

Edited August 2, 2009 by kirottu

[Monte Carlo]

As long as you don't actually believe that ****e, bravo.

[lord of flies]

As long as you don't actually believe that ****e, bravo.

Uh, I actually do believe that "****e," buddy. A responsible government can come only from a non-capitalist society, since capitalism inevitably corrupts democracy, whether with bribery, the manipulation of the class system, or campaign donations.

...

 

This is the internets. Nobody never loses debates here.

Double negative, I win.

[Rostere]

Seriously guys, I can't see why you keep calling Lo®D a troll. What does it matter whether or not nobody ever agrees with him if he is able to argue without offending anyone, (which apparently is more than most of you can say).