Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[Kefeinzel]

Fallout 1 and 2's gameplay was slow and ponderous. It was no real challenge. Fallout 3's real time gameplay, even with VATS, is far more challenging than what Fallout 1 and 2 offered.

 

completely disagree.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if you even played fallout one or two.

If you play a nonstandard character, surviving through battles requires tactics and guile.

I can't recall a time in FO3 I had to make a tactical decision other than 'shoot this/ don't shoot this'.

[entrerix]

I died way more times beating fallout 1 than beating fallout 3.

 

maybe some people define challenge differently than I do, but fallout was harder than fallout 3 when it comes to staying alive. (at least on a first play when you dont use a walkthrough to tell you where the power armor is)

[Slowtrain]

Fallout 1 and 2's gameplay was slow and ponderous. It was no real challenge.

 

I would never defend FO1/2 TB combat as the pinnacle of TB combat, but I do think a lot of the tediousness came from design decisions that had you fighting 30 rats. Not the combat engine itself.

 

 

Fallout 3's real time gameplay, even with VATS, is far more challenging than what Fallout 1 and 2 offered.

 

 

No, its not. Fallout's RT gameplay is terrible and ridiculously easy compared to other FPS games. VATS is just some kind of weird joke.

[entrerix]

I have a serious question: has anyone tried playing fallout 3 without using VATS at all? Is the game more fun that way? why?

 

I ask because I'm thinking of trying it

[Gizmo]

Real time Combat should have never been even considered for this series... and if they were forced to use it, the they should have considered making it better designed that they did. This is just sad.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Gizmo

[Slowtrain]

I have a serious question: has anyone tried playing fallout 3 without using VATS at all? Is the game more fun that way? why?

 

I ask because I'm thinking of trying it

 

 

I hate VATS and always play using pure RT combat. It is still not great, but I think VATS is just unplayably tedious.

 

I should also point out that I really only like Big Guns, Melee and, and mines for use in combat. I think the small gun/energy weapon combat is terribly boring.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I have played Fallout 1 and 2 many times, though I do prefer Fallout 1 over 2. I never found the two games all that difficult. Never did I die, nor did I feel like running away all that much. Fallout 3 I died plenty of times, and stealth was far more useful in Fallout 3 than it was in Fallout 1 and 2. So was the sniper rifle. Sneaking around areas, using the sniper rifle takes good strategy, especially if you are facing a deathclaw. First thing you want to do is take out the legs.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Real time Combat should have never been even considered for this series... and if they were forced to use it, the they should have considered making it better designed that they did. This is just sad.

That is pretty funny. Never had that happen to me though. Whenever I get that close to a super mutant they switch out to go melee against me.

[Slowtrain]

I have played Fallout 1 and 2 many times, though I do prefer Fallout 1 over 2. I never found the two games all that difficult. Never did I die, nor did I feel like running away all that much. Fallout 3 I died plenty of times, and stealth was far more useful in Fallout 3 than it was in Fallout 1 and 2. So was the sniper rifle. Sneaking around areas, using the sniper rifle takes good strategy, especially if you are facing a deathclaw. First thing you want to do is take out the legs.

 

 

I could bring up the werewolf here. But I won't.

[Gizmo]

Real time Combat should have never been even considered for this series... and if they were forced to use it, the they should have considered making it better designed that they did. This is just sad.

That is pretty funny. Never had that happen to me though. Whenever I get that close to a super mutant they switch out to go melee against me.

Could be a fluke ~it is why I recorded it... but its not why I'm disappointed that they went FPS instead of High TPP.

 

You can't appreciate the landscape from a worm's eye view.

I'm not the least bit interested in FPP combat (and never had that problem with any other game in the entire series before Fallout 3 ~its not what drew me to the series.

 

Using it shows that they know nothing about what they bought, except that they own it and are allowed to screw it up with impunity if it means that somebody will buy it from them. . )

Edited May 11, 2009 by Gizmo

[Killian Kalthorne]

I could bring up the werewolf here. But I won't.

 

QUIET YOU!

[Llyranor]

I guess I'm one of those people who don't buy some games because of difficulty. If a game's too easy so as to remove any sense of challenge, it gets a pass. Difficulty alone isn't a selling point, though. It's more of a prerequisite.

 

I found FO1/2 combat to be pretty average. Turn-based is great, but not when you're controlling one guy and just calling shots all the time.

[Gizmo]

What's the werewolf ~is it another cheesy 50' monster they put in for thinking its all about cheesy 50' pop culture nonsense?

 

Please do tell. I had thought the Vampire thing was bad enough (and used only to recycling another part of Oblivion's code).

 

Turn-based is great, but not when you're controlling one guy and just calling shots all the time.

 

Why not? I never played the game just waiting to click... I watched the opponents actions and worked out their AP's and potential, I used positioning and carefully decided whether or not to spend all my AP's or to save some (or all) for defense during their turns.

 

Fallout's combat is rather amazingly similar to SSI's Gold Box games, where its true, that you had up to 8 characters, but its also the case that you might easily be using just one while the rest lay bleeding on the ground; and it was also the case that hired mercenaries were not under player control, but did come in handy to have (just like Ian ~usually a hired merc).

Edited May 11, 2009 by Gizmo

[Llyranor]

You don't ask about the werewolf. That's one of the rules here.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Don't ask, Gizmo. Its not Fallout related.

[Gizmo]

 

*I'm just starting work on some FO3 mods that I hope might be easily ported to FO:New Vegas when it comes out (and if needed).

 

As there is no other thread...

Edited May 11, 2009 by Gizmo

[Slowtrain]

I watched the opponents actions and worked out their AP's and potential, I used positioning and carefully decided whether or not to spend all my AP's or to save some (or all) for defense during their turns.

 

 

I don't think it was unplayable, but compared to games like XCOM and Jag 2, Fallout's combat was pretty pedestrian. It didn't even have interrupts/opportunity fire, iirc. WHich is almost required for TB combat, to help gave the combat a bit more ebb and flow

[Gizmo]

I watched the opponents actions and worked out their AP's and potential, I used positioning and carefully decided whether or not to spend all my AP's or to save some (or all) for defense during their turns.

 

 

I don't think it was unplayable, but compared to games like XCOM and Jag 2, Fallout's combat was pretty pedestrian. It didn't even have interrupts/opportunity fire, iirc. WHich is almost required for TB combat, to help gave the combat a bit more ebb and flow

~And NPC's themselves were a last minute hack... No It was the pinnacle of TB combat, but I expected a revised and improved combat system from FO:Tactics; That they cloned TES4 and added guns was a shock.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Gizmo

[Llyranor]

Why not? I never played the game just waiting to click... I watched the opponents actions and worked out their AP's and potential, I used positioning and carefully decided whether or not to spend all my AP's or to save some (or all) for defense during their turns.

I guess I just found any tactical maneuvering unnecessary since calling shots would just end up with dead baddies in a few rounds at the most.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I love Fallout 3, more so than either Fallout 2 or Tactics, but I can't imagine anyone considering Fallout 3 to be harder than the original games. There are only a billion stimpaks to down. My character's body probably looks like someone who ran into a nest of Africanized Honey Bees after all the stimpak injections he has taken.

[TwinkieGorilla]

I doubt that for several reasons.

 

One, smoking in a restaurant is illegal where I live.

Two, I don't smoke.

Three, I trust only one person to make my food and that is me.

Four, I don't drink coffee.

Five, I go to the movies once every two to three years.

Six, I don't need outside stimulus to have fun. *tee hee*

 

ok, wow. so things are sad for a whole separate set of reasons. anyway, moving on...

 

~This is sadly reminiscent of Orwell's 1984 coming true on several levels; Games are the new New-Speak, and publishers are beaming with pride that each new batch has fewer words than the last one.

 

god, depressing and true. i believe Killian is a victim of blackwhite.

 

blackwhite - The ability to accept whatever "truth" the party puts out, no matter how absurd it may be. Orwell described it as "...loyal willingness to say black is white when party discipline demands this. It also means the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know black is white, and forget that one has ever believed the contrary."

 

Gizmo, I think you are remembering Fallout 1 and 2 with some rose tinted lenses. They weren't all that deep.

 

HA!!! this coming from a Bethie/FO3'pologist is like hearing "the first star wars movies sucked compared to the prequels" or "Peter Jackson's movies were so much better than J.R.R. Tolkien's books!" oh wait. i HAVE heard that from Bethie/FO3'pologists before. many times. you guys are on the front-line of the easily-amused and under-challenged brigade. lord help us (*crap, i'm an atheist. what to do!)

 

At this point I'm starting to wonder if you even played fallout one or two.

 

i don't know this guy specifically but a whole boatload of the aforementioned group seemingly decided to give the originals a whirl after their beloved company picked up the license. from my stay at their official board it seems like every 1 out of 100 posters actually played the games all the way through and "got it." an interesting article about this topic though: Fallout 180 and yes, you have to read the whole article to get the point.

 

Never did I die, nor did I feel like running away all that much.

 

LOLERCOASTER!!! you are a freakin' trip, man. that's for sure.

[Gizmo]

Why not? I never played the game just waiting to click... I watched the opponents actions and worked out their AP's and potential, I used positioning and carefully decided whether or not to spend all my AP's or to save some (or all) for defense during their turns.

I guess I just found any tactical maneuvering unnecessary since calling shots would just end up with dead baddies in a few rounds at the most.

Called shots were deadly in the end game, but Aimed shots in general were seemingly tougher to hit with until you were really really good. Getting that good up-front really screwed you up for anything but combat, and there were things you could not get unless you had put your points in non-combat skills.

 

My favorite fight in Fallout is a toss up between two fights (both in the Hub, and both best fought early). They are the fight with Decker, and the rescuing of the kidnapped BOS knight. No amount casual clicking will win those fights with certainty, and unless you have heavy armor and weapons, its very easy to get killed, or have your NPC's get killed.

 

Its a risky pair of fights ~especially if you are not the type to reload after your NPC gets killed.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Gizmo

[entrerix]

to be honest, perfectly honest - I do not believe it is possible for a person to pick up and play fallout 1 for the very first time, without looking at ANY help (like faqs/walkthroughs/friends advice) and beat the game without dying at least a few times.

 

anyone who says they have done it I will consider a liar.

 

no matter how much they claim otherwise.

[cronicler]

Today's gamers? Not a chance?

One of those guys that were considered nerds or geeks and played crpgs and tbss when it was not cool or in? no problem. Compared to some of the other previous crpgs Fallout was a lot clear on what caused what. Hell all the clickable buttons had in-game explanations....

 

Edit: Still you are correct. Anyone could die to a lucky (or unlucky) crit or events in the original game. Even with PA and all the combat monkey perks you could still die to a minigun crit from a mutant.

Edited May 11, 2009 by cronicler

[TwinkieGorilla]

to be honest, perfectly honest - I do not believe it is possible for a person to pick up and play fallout 1 for the very first time, without looking at ANY help (like faqs/walkthroughs/friends advice) and beat the game without dying at least a few times.

 

anyone who says they have done it I will consider a liar.

 

no matter how much they claim otherwise.

 

i certainly had to load/reload constantly during my first few experiences with FO1 & 2. for FO3 i actually had to raise the difficulty bar TWICE in order to find any semblance of an interesting challenge. never in my life have i been forced to raise the difficulty bar my first time through, let alone twice.