Hurlshort Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Marleau is a pretty good example of how the C isn't always good for a player. He has been one of the best players in the league since he had the letter taken away.
Volourn Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 "Marleau is a pretty good example of how the C isn't always good for a player. He has been one of the best players in the league since he had the letter taken away." He was a great player with the C. He still isn't one of the best players in the league, though. Never will be. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Krookie Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 "Marleau is a pretty good example of how the C isn't always good for a player. He has been one of the best players in the league since he had the letter taken away." He was a great player with the C. He still isn't one of the best players in the league, though. Never will be. simply untrue, his stats with the C are worse than his stats w/o the C. Period. also, anybody capable of leading the league in goals at the midway point of the season is one of the best players in the league. Fact.
Kor Qel Droma Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkG0fyvAeA0 Ok, THIS will be interesting! I actually believe him. I saw the end of that game and the last two penalties were really weird. Weird enough for me to remember them. Let's hope the NHL follows up on this. I just watched the replays of the calls in question and they were pretty weak. I don't think that ripping to the media afterwards is going to help Burrows' case much. The NHL head office tends to look down on those sorts of things. And may you enjoy your retirement, CuJo!! edit: you can watch the replay at TSN.ca, Krookster. Edited January 12, 2010 by Kor Qel Droma Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
Krookie Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 you da mannn Kor. Those calls were weak, one of them was bad enough but to call both on Burrows and then the one of Sedin is ridiculous
Volourn Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 "also, anybody capable of leading the league in goals at the midway point of the season is one of the best players in the league. Fact." Yeah, because Cheechoo is one of the best, right? LMAO Hmm.. I wonder what these two have in common with their great goal seasons? Oh, that's right. One of the best players in ther league passing them the puck. A coinidink? Nah, don't think so. Next, you are gonna claim Adam Graves is one fo the best goal scorers ever because he scored 50 goals. LMAO DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Volourn Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 No. He was a solid player who greatly benefit by playing with two of the best players ever. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Kor Qel Droma Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Here's the followup to that situation the other night. Player gets fined . The ref is basically in the clear. And Khabibulin is going under the knife to get his back fixed. Hey, that coincided with the turnaround in Chicago, as well. Maybe a few high draft picks can turn this struggling franchise around. That, and dumping a few players. Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
Volourn Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Typical NHL. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Krookie Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 "also, anybody capable of leading the league in goals at the midway point of the season is one of the best players in the league. Fact." Yeah, because Cheechoo is one of the best, right? LMAO Hmm.. I wonder what these two have in common with their great goal seasons? Oh, that's right. One of the best players in ther league passing them the puck. A coinidink? Nah, don't think so. Next, you are gonna claim Adam Graves is one fo the best goal scorers ever because he scored 50 goals. LMAO Cheechoo was one of the best players in the league that season. Marleau is that guy this season. Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that this isn't Marleau's first great season...
Hurlshort Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Even when Cheechoo was scoring 54 goals, no one was saying he was one of the greatest players ever. He was a fantastic finisher, but he lacked the puck handling and skating to dominate a game. Marleau has dominated games throughout his career. Not consistently, but he can take over a game, and he's even got solid numbers in the playoffs. He scored two hat tricks in a series against Colorado, and that was before Thornton even came to SJ. Now Marleau is a great player, but who knows what will happen in the next few years? If he plays the way he has this year and last, then he deserves to be considered one of the best in the league. You can make the argument that pretty much every great player has had other great guys around them to elevate their play. Ovechkin has Semin and Green. Crosby has Malkin. Lemieux had Jagr. I don't think Marleau is there yet, again he was very inconsistent in his early career, but if he keeps up this type of play for a couple years, then Thornton-Marleau deserve their place.
Volourn Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 "Cheechoo was one of the best players in the league that season." No. "Marleau is that guy this season." No. " Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that this isn't Marleau's first great season... " Thanks for admitting my initial point was right. Marleau is not polaying great becasuse of not having the stupid C like some suggested. He's playuing great because that's the way he rolls. Still not one of the best players. "You can make the argument that pretty much every great player has had other great guys around them to elevate their play. Ovechkin has Semin and Green. Crosby has Malkin. Lemieux had Jagr. I don't think Marleau is there yet, again he was very inconsistent in his early career, but if he keeps up this type of play for a couple years, then Thornton-Marleau deserve their place." ERROR. ERROR. ERROR. Ovechkin wa sbefore those two bozoz. Ovechkin makes THEM great. Crosby did well without Malki in his rooki season and Malkin did find when Crosby was injured. Lemieux had plenty of great seasons without Jagr and vice versa. Same with Messier, and Gretzky. Thornton is one of the greatets players. Marleau is not. Unless you mean 'one of the top 100' when you say greatest then sure, he's one of the greatest. But, he's not top 10 or even top 20. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Krookie Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 "Cheechoo was one of the best players in the league that season." No. "Marleau is that guy this season." No. Right, so what you're saying is the leading goal scorer(s) are not the most dangerous (or best) players? Typical VoloLogic I suppose. AANYWAY GUYS burrow's punishment was ridiculous I think.
mkreku Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 I don't get it. Why are the NHL so protective of their referees? I mean, I can understand that they don't want them to become free-for-all to the players, but this..? As an outsider looking in, it sure as hell looks like Burrows wasn't lying. Especially when you watch the end of that game. The bad referees of the NHL wouldn't bother me one bit if it weren't for the fact that USA and Canada always demands to have NHL referees in the Olympics! Yes, they are demanding to have North American referees in their own games! They say it's because of insurance reasons.. I hate it. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Krookie Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 I don't get it. Why are the NHL so protective of their referees? I mean, I can understand that they don't want them to become free-for-all to the players, but this..? As an outsider looking in, it sure as hell looks like Burrows wasn't lying. Especially when you watch the end of that game. The bad referees of the NHL wouldn't bother me one bit if it weren't for the fact that USA and Canada always demands to have NHL referees in the Olympics! Yes, they are demanding to have North American referees in their own games! They say it's because of insurance reasons.. I hate it. As someone who has experienced reffing at a lot of levels, it seems as though the NHL isn't the only league protecting refs. Our high school league (which is pretty big) has one or two refs that are absolute dirtbags. No one ever does anything about it, but when it comes down to it (a lot) of referees think they are hotshots.
Volourn Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 "Right, so what you're saying is the leading goal scorer(s) are not the most dangerous (or best) players? Typical VoloLogic I suppose. " So... Marleau is better than Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Broduer, etc.? Come on, now. Don't be silly. No team that wanted to be one of the best teams would build around Marleau. Period. That's how I determine who is amongst the best. Marleau would be nothing without Thornton, and even Heatley. Those two takes LOTS of pressure off of him. How can Marleau be 'one of the best players in the league' when he's arguably 4th best on his own team. LMAO DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Hurlshort Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 Actually Marleau led the Sharks to the playoffs a couple years before the arrival of Thornton. And Heatley is a goal scorer, that's his role. A team built around him would not go anywhere, as was evidenced in Atlanta. Is there any team in the league that would be the best team if they built around one star player? Every top team has multiple stars on it.
Volourn Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 "Is there any team in the league that would be the best team if they built around one star player?" Definitive best team? Hard to say, but one of the best? Absolutely. Sabres with Hasek is one good example of a team that is MUCH better than it should be because of one guy. Gretzky on the Kings. They were a joke, they got him, and they made the Finals. The best players will make sure their teams are amongst the best. "Actually Marleau led the Sharks to the playoffs a couple years before the arrival of Thornton." Sorry, but in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs, that ain't impressive. Thornton - despite his well known playoff problems - is the reason why the Sharks have been a powerhouse since the lockout. "A team built around him would not go anywhere, as was evidenced in Atlanta. " That's because a) Atlanta had literal crap around him. And, b) As great as Heatley is, he's not a team changer by himself. He's still better than Marleau despite Marleau having more goals. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Krookie Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 "Right, so what you're saying is the leading goal scorer(s) are not the most dangerous (or best) players? Typical VoloLogic I suppose. " So... Marleau is better than Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Broduer, etc.? Come on, now. Don't be silly. Um, no...One of the most dangerous players in the league just puts him in the same category as those guys...
alanschu Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 (edited) Adam Graves was a great player, actually. Disagree. There is no way I'd consider a player that averaged a little more than half a point per game as being a "great player." Great players are the Sakics, Leetch's, and Yzermans IMO. Marleau is a very good player (heck, I'd be more willing to call Marleau a great player over Graves), but I don't consider him one of the best players to play the game simply because he is having a very good season. For the same reasons I wouldn't compare Jonathan Cheechoo one of the best players, nor players like Rob Brown (1 fantastic season and faded into obscurity and now Oilers telecasts), Jim Carey (the former Vezina winner that only played 4 seasons in the NHL), or Bernie Nicholls (zomg I'm playing with Gretzky and saw a 72 point improvement over my previous season). Those a great seasons, but ultimately not great players. I see Marleau more along the lines of an Ales Hemsky (whom I think highly of). A player that is good for getting you around a point per game, and a 1st line player on most teams, but ultimately not the driving force behind an excellent team. You can see this as a knock on Marleau, but it really isn't. If he can maintain numbers like he has been for some more seasons, he'll likely start to be considered for the Hockey Hall of Fame. But his career high prior to 2005-2006 was 57 points. The year Thornton joins his team, he's finally hit that PPG status that we all expected him to be at. I feel this is for two reasons: Marleau continued to grow and develop as a player, and Thornton-Cheechoo provided significant scoring depth that it made it meant Marleau wasn't always facing the top defensive matchups (or he was playing with Jumbo Joe directly). Thornton and Heatley this season continue to make Marleau's life easier, because defenses cannot key on Marleau due to options. Depth is a wonderful thing and I am jealous jealous jealous because of it. Edited January 15, 2010 by alanschu
Hurlshort Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 I agree with you alanschu, in fact I had said earlier that Marleau needs to maintain his current game for another few seasons to really be considered great. And really, Krookie is just saying Marleau is playing at the highest level this season, which is obvious to anyone who watches a few Sharks games. He is only 30, so if he puts up 70-80 points for the next four seasons, which is plenty possible, that will give him decent numbers. He would still need to shine in the playoffs to really gain a better reputation though. His numbers are good, but not close to the HoF at all. Although I hesitate to go strictly by points per game on measuring greatness. As for Graves, I really don't know much about him, I was just saying that to bug Volo
Krookie Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 Haha, I think the Sharks as an entire organization need to get a better reputation in the playoffs
Volourn Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 "As for Graves, I really don't know much about him, I was just saying that to bug Volo" Your master plan to bug me was to call a Ranger great? The logic is weak. L0LZ DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
mkreku Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 We got run over by Ovechkin. Ovechtrain. WHATEVER. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
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