Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[Purkake]

I'm just saying that it was never meant to be taken as seriously as you apparently are taking it. The Fallout world has always been tongue in cheek with all the crazy laser weapons, 50s super mutants and well-pressed jumpsuits.

Sure it was ~in a way. The weird stuff was to break up the oppressiveness and instill a sence of "anything can happen ~out there in the undiscovered watses... (IE. Outside of town)". Fallout had strange kooky aspects, but they fit the setting. An example of what does not fit a given setting, is Gandalf in Helm's Deep, exhausting his spells on the orcs and resorting to an AK-47 pulled out from the folds of his robe ~that breaks suspension of disbelief... Supermutants in Fallout do not ~even Fire Gekkos do not (but they push it close ).

 

Fallout was not a free for all 50's carnival hour where anything goes and folks get up after a nuclear blast.

 

Vampires don't fit the setting and break suspension of disbelief for example, as does any essential NPC.

 

This new perk "Puppies" is absurd break; Dogmeat's value was that he was a wicked pooch with a killer bite, but was still vulnerable and needed to be protected ~with that perk he becomes disposable and infinitely replaceable. ~what a crock...

 

Umm, yeah I wasn't defending FO3, I was just pointing out the unimportance of correct gun calibers and damage models.

[Slowtrain]

Erm, Ak 47s are really an exception to the general weapon needs to be honest.

 

 

Sure, but my point was mostly that there are more interesting ways to clean a weapon, even in the real world, than hitting it with a hammer (lol) or mushing two identical weapons toegther (which would be a neat trick).

 

Or you can just leave it out, like the devs left out the need for going to the bathroom behind a tree.

[cronicler]

Crashgirl: Or you can just leave it out, like the devs left out the need for going to the bathroom behind a tree.

 

 

What? haven't you played Leisure Suit Larry: Magna **** Laude? Oh yes we were talking about FO3 here

[Slowtrain]

Crashgirl: Or you can just leave it out, like the devs left out the need for going to the bathroom behind a tree.

 

 

What? haven't you played Leisure Suit Larry: Magna **** Laude? Oh yes we were talking about FO3 here

 

 

More realism, ftw.

 

I'm not drinking out of that toilet! No sir. Not now.

[cronicler]

Actually that drinking from toilet pipes and other water access points is a viable survival technique if you get trapped by an earthquake or something but after a nuclear war? Erm don't know... How the hell did those pipes have water pressure and 200 years etc were a bit iffy points. That gimmick would have been fine for game that takes place after an earthquake but not really fitting in after the bombs

[J.E. Sawyer]

I was watching a blurb on AKs on the Military Channel and it talked about how you cna clean them by taking your bootlaces, knotting them up, dipping them in oil and then yanking them through the barrel. That's clean enough for an AK-47!

 

A little creativity like that would be cool.

BoreSnake mini-game followed by a mini-game where you have to run brushes and patches through followed by a mini-game where you have to disassemble all parts of the action, clean it, and then reassemble the entire gun.

[Slowtrain]

I was watching a blurb on AKs on the Military Channel and it talked about how you cna clean them by taking your bootlaces, knotting them up, dipping them in oil and then yanking them through the barrel. That's clean enough for an AK-47!

 

A little creativity like that would be cool.

BoreSnake mini-game followed by a mini-game where you have to run brushes and patches through followed by a mini-game where you have to disassemble all parts of the action, clean it, and then reassemble the entire gun.

 

 

As long as there is a rotating pie chart that I can spin repeatedly, I'm sold!

[Purkake]

I was watching a blurb on AKs on the Military Channel and it talked about how you cna clean them by taking your bootlaces, knotting them up, dipping them in oil and then yanking them through the barrel. That's clean enough for an AK-47!

 

A little creativity like that would be cool.

BoreSnake mini-game followed by a mini-game where you have to run brushes and patches through followed by a mini-game where you have to disassemble all parts of the action, clean it, and then reassemble the entire gun.

 

YES! But you need to make it more abstract, maybe a game of Bejeweled? Instead of the crystals you could have old-timey vacuum tubes...

[cronicler]

Oh my, oh, oh, bwahahahahuhahauhahauhuhuhhahaa....

 

Oh dear... I have this very very bad suspicion that we are going to get some very vicious easter eggs based on things we battle about in this thread...

 

And a quick question if I may Mr Sawyer, What is your opinion on mini-games generally? Not the forced you need to play pipes or mastermind to hack this thing ones but the more, side-game ones like Pazaak from Kotor, Tragic The Gathering from original FO and the Dragon Dice from Witcher? Is there any chance of seeing such games.... Umm please disregard that last bit. No whining or begging for game related facts, before you decide you are ready to tell, from me.

Edited May 6, 2009 by cronicler

[deleteduser]

there will be buttonmashing and qt events the likes of which have never been seen before

[Slowtrain]

If life isn't about mashing buttons, I don't know what is.

[cronicler]

there will be buttonmashing and qt events the likes of which have never been seen before

 

Oh joy! Here comes another trainer for the qt event bonanza on horizon

[TwinkieGorilla]

that goddamn dice game and pazaak are some of the best (re: most addictive) mini-games of all-time. and that goddamned dice game is so beautiful. i walk around looking for people to play dice with even if at the moment i can't be arsed to actually do any quest-ing.

[Gizmo]

that goddamn dice game and pazaak are some of the best (re: most addictive) mini-games of all-time. and that goddamned dice game is so beautiful. i walk around looking for people to play dice with even if at the moment i can't be arsed to actually do any quest-ing.

I had fun with that one.

 

 

~Also I really appreciated the HD quality downloadable cutscene replacement videos for Kotor2.

(Are they still available online?)

Heh... Am I the only one that used the force powers to charm the lightsabers in the final battle?

Edited May 6, 2009 by Gizmo

[J.E. Sawyer]

And a quick question if I may Mr Sawyer, What is your opinion on mini-games generally? Not the forced you need to play pipes or mastermind to hack this thing ones but the more, side-game ones like Pazaak from Kotor, Tragic The Gathering from original FO and the Dragon Dice from Witcher? Is there any chance of seeing such games.... Umm please disregard that last bit. No whining or begging for game related facts, before you decide you are ready to tell, from me.

In general, I think anything fun has the potential to be a good inclusion in any game. When a mini-game is part of the core gameplay (like lockpicking in Splinter Cell or F3), the mini-game needs to be short, fun, and must evolve over time. If it lacks those three qualities, it gets annoying very fast.

 

Side games just need to be fun, IMO. Witcher's poker game wasn't long, but it also wasn't short. It didn't seem to change much over time, but it was fun and it was optional. As others have said, it was also beautiful. A beautiful interface can't make a bad game fun, but it can make a good game that much more enjoyable.

[Gizmo]

...

I have a question about lockpicking...

If the PC has a given percentage/proficiency at lock picking, shouldn't that be the chance that the PC has to pick a given lock (plus or minus difficulty penalties for the complexity of the lock)?

 

*Side note: Fallout 3 seems to use the skill as a threshold that denies [or allows] you to play the lockpick minigame (which I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I always just move the pick to the top left and twist it open ~is there a point to it?)

 

Personally I could do without it, and would really like to be able to disable it from the game as an option ~reverting to a more sensible pick chance based on the skill you've set for the PC. Fallout 3 seems to use many of the PC's skills to attenuate the player's own... and IMO that's counterproductive and kind of defeats the point.

 

**2nd side note: Fallout 3's perks seem to be whatever they think might be cool; While Fallout's perks seemed to be what they thought might be useful... I remember Empathy's color coding the responses (hinting with color, and not blatantly labeling choices as good/bad), and Awareness' increased detail in descriptions... Its terrible that FO3 lists an accurate health bar for every opponent ~perhaps that could be part of the awareness perk instead of standard.

( I never used the awareness perk myself... preferring the regular descriptions as a gauge.)

~Never played with "Bloody mess" either, as the criticals lose all their novelty if seen every single time.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Gizmo

[Aristes]

I would prefer not having to carry around 5 copies of the same gun to fix it.

 

 

OMG, yes. If there is 1 thing I would love to see, plz plz plz change the repair system. Either slow weapon and ammo degredation way down, eliminate it all together, or come up with a better system. HAving to carry around multiple copies of your armor and weapons is INCREDIBLY annoying. To me. Personally.

 

Third

[Killian Kalthorne]

Hmmm... That never really annoyed me too much. I always seemed to have almost endless supply of weapons and armor to use for repairs when I play the game. Also I tend to spread out my points on weapons so I can use a multiple weapons. Such as I would use a missile launcher til I run out of missiles or it becomes useless then ditch it. Same with shotguns and pistols. I simply rummage what the next bad guy has and use it. When its useless or I don't have any ammo for it I drop it and use something else. Its the wasteland with all sorts of junk. Use the junk and when the junk is junked then use different junk.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Hmmm... That never really annoyed me too much. I always seemed to have almost endless supply of weapons and armor to use for repairs when I play the game.

 

the fact that you don't see this as what could be at best described as a faulty exploit and at worst a complete negligence for cRPG'ing complexity and realism is exactly what's wrong with the current picture.

[Aristes]

It never bothered me a huge amount. Likewise, mashing gear together to fix it didn't bother me much. I knew the point was that it was an abstract representation of cannibalizing one item to fix another. However, if we add ammo weight, then it gets to be really old really fast. Even as it is, I still don't like the rapid deterioration. It was more onerous than fun.

 

As far as the lockpicking minigame, I don't like the idea of getting rid of it because, as long as I've got the skill to try to succeed, I will almost certainly succeed before I run out of pins. I get to keep trying as long as I have resources. If it's a straight up chance, then I'm SoL. ...And the mini-game favors the player in this case, I think. On the other hand, In one game, I maxed the skill, which means automatic success if we get rid of the game, while I might still waste a pin in the mini game. It was extremely short, not exactly fun per se, but it did change over time as your skill increased. In other words, trying to pick a lol with minimal skill was different than picking a lock with max skill.

 

I think I'll compile a list of things I don't want to change. This thread has been all about why Fallout 3 needs to change, and I agree with many of the points folks have expressed. However, there doesn't need to be another voice railing for change. It's equally important to defend the things that you would like to carry over into the new game in the franchise.

 

cronicler: I didn't add anything to my long winded post, you doofus. I just corrected a typo. ...Or at least I thouhgt I had.

[Gizmo]

As far as the lockpicking minigame, I don't like the idea of getting rid of it because, as long as I've got the skill to try to succeed, I will almost certainly succeed before I run out of pins.

Doesn't this kind of defeat the point of your character having skill at lockpicking? (if you plan to do all the picking for him?) ~the whole reason for percentages in the first place is for situational impartiality ~it determines what happens with the given task at the given time. It means either the PC was able to open the lock or not, and the PC should not have an invisible helper that picks it for him. RPG characters are effectively your tool of interaction in the game world ~its been coined as "the Claw factor " , for those money munching plush toy claw machines in the shopping malls. ~It means that you are outside the box while the PC (claw) is inside the box (their world). Your interactions in the RPG world are limited by what the PC can accomplish (IE. The player never reaches into the box with their own hands, and must work with what PC that they have).

 

Alternatively it could be said that an RPG is like building a ship in a bottle (sure its easy to just assemble the ship, but the challenge is to do it through the restriction of the bottle opening ~the window into the bottle... The PC is your window into the game world, You interact with the world through the PC... If they can't pick the lock, then you don't get to see the other side of the door).

 

The other style is a straight adventure game (like Oblivion... where your PC doesn't even need a name, and has no "character" to consider ~its you in the bottle ~meh).

Edited May 6, 2009 by Gizmo

[Aristes]

I get you, bro, but my point is that you're still limited by the number of pins you have. In other words, our real life thief might not get the lock on the first try, but he can get it. In real life, there are specialized tools for locksmithing/picking. So I don't want a single roll event for lockpicking anyhow.

 

At the end of the day, however, I have to admit that I'm not wed to the idea of lockpicking mini games. Usually, I just suffer through them because I am impatient and mini-games keep me from furthering the plot. Even stuff as simple and fun as the Witcher's Yatzee.... or Poker... or whatever it's supposed to be, and that's one of the best of the bunch. On the other hand, as you said you'd like the lock picking mini-game to be, the dice game in Witcher is entirely optional.

[Gizmo]

I get you, bro, but my point is that you're still limited by the number of pins you have. In other words, our real life thief might not get the lock on the first try, but he can get it. In real life, there are specialized tools for locksmithing/picking. So I don't want a single roll event for lockpicking anyhow.

 

At the end of the day, however, I have to admit that I'm not wed to the idea of lockpicking mini games. Usually, I just suffer through them because I am impatient and mini-games keep me from furthering the plot. Even stuff as simple and fun as the Witcher's Yatzee.... or Poker... or whatever it's supposed to be, and that's one of the best of the bunch. On the other hand, as you said you'd like the lock picking mini-game to be, the dice game in Witcher is entirely optional.

In real life you can pick a dead bolt with an ink pen (I've won that bet )

 

The idea that good tools increase skill is a good one though, its quite the case that you are limited by poor tools in almost any endeavor.

 

*In Gothic2 the PC won't even attempt to pick a lock unless skilled in it.

 

The game Arx Fatalis did a great job with lock picking. IMO.

 

~Come to think of it... Hilsfar had Lock picking in the style that TES had (where the player picked the lock ~but Hilsfar was all minigames )

 

~It did it better than Oblivion though... You had to have the right picks to pick the lock

And the right pick might be broken in the set you have.

 

The lock gets complicated with more tumblers too

Edited May 6, 2009 by Gizmo

[Aristes]

Damned rogue!

[Tagaziel]

there will be buttonmashing and qt events the likes of which have never been seen before

 

If so, I will mail myself to you guys and dance naked in your parking lot making funny noises.