TSL Restoration Project: The Phantom Deadline, READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING

[Qliveur]

In this situation the only thing that I believe that myself and everyone else is entitled to is a little bit of honesty. If that is too much to ask, then just say so.

 

This stopped being about the mod a year ago.

 

As far as repetition goes: if T-G puts an end to their cyclical deceptive behavior, then I'll stop pointing it out every time they do it and everyone will be happy.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Qliveur

[MacCorp]

Peoples self entitlement issues never ceases to astound me

 

If people hate it so much, why keep moaning about it? Life is too short for that (not to mention that it gets repetitive).

I sense a disatisfaction with how the game was not completed. Since Obsidian (or LucasArts) has not come forth with a solution, to their own problems, people see Team-Gizka as a light of hope for a broken game. People are entitled to a completed and bug free game, but their feeling are being redirected onto those who publicly accepted the challanges. You could say that Obsidian deflected the bad public relations by quietly supporting Team-Gizka. People should be upset with Obsidian and LucasArts, but both companies managed to redirect people's anger by playing a public relations card.

 

Team-Gizka's problems were created by publicly accepting to do this project. If I was apart of the team leaders, I might have kept this whole thing quiet. I would not have opened a website, forums, nor taken any interviews. I might have made a single thread, a quick f.a.q. page, and then kept Mantis private. If it turns out that I could not deliver, people would not know the difference. No public spotlight. The mod can easily fade away.

 

Edit -- Added

I also get the feeling that Team-Gizka is tired. Even though they might not say anything publicly, I think their emotions are coming out in spurts. I'm only speculating here, but I'm willing to bet they want this mod to go away. At the start of this project, the group was excited and ready to roll. As one year went into four years, I'm willing to bet this project started to feel like a daunting task.

Edited April 6, 2009 by MacCorp

[Gorth]

In this situation the only thing that I believe that myself and everyone else is entitled to is a little bit of honesty. If that is too much to ask, then just say so.

I still wonder where people get the 'dishonest' part from. Mind you, I've never really followed it *that* closely, although I do lurk every now and then on their forums, like peeking in once every fortnight.

 

People should be upset with Obsidian and LucasArts, but both companies managed to redirect people's anger by playing a public relations card.

You weren't around at the time of the games release then. People were not just upset, they were acting like rabies infected dogs, frothing at their mouths. It was so bad the these very forums were facing closing for good. No "public relations" card was played, only the threat of not having a place to hang out and complain anymore

 

This thread is really just a piece of nostalgia predating the time where TG had their own forums (and in many ways probably also outlived its usefulness) and to the best of my knowledge, Aurora hasn't been active for a very long time.

[Meshugger]

Peoples self entitlement issues never ceases to astound me

 

If people hate it so much, why keep moaning about it? Life is too short for that (not to mention that it gets repetitive).

 

Well, why do people fuss about politics, elections (those in the past and the future), social norms, ethics and morality? Because they care.

[Blarghagh]

Wow, some of you really feel like this unfinanced, unpaid mod-team who work on this in their free time should show government level professionality. I mean, no offense but-

 

 

No, y'know what? Never mind that last part. All offense meant. You guys are bunch of shlongs. It's a wonder you haven't driven these guys to quit yet. I wish there was some way of preventing everyone here who has done nothing but complain about something that will be distributed for free on the internet when it's done from downloading it.

[Meshugger]

Wow, some of you really feel like this unfinanced, unpaid mod-team who work on this in their free time should show government level professionality. I mean, no offense but-

 

Now, now, i would never be that derogatory towards Team-Gizka. No group of modders could ever have such authority to mess things up of such epic proportions as the government.

 

No, y'know what? Never mind that last part. All offense meant. You guys are bunch of shlongs. It's a wonder you haven't driven these guys to quit yet. I wish there was some way of preventing everyone here who has done nothing but complain about something that will be distributed for free on the internet when it's done from downloading it.

 

There is one way already implemented. It is called 'not releasing it at all'.

 

Oh wait, you will not get your copy then, will you? Well, then there is the option of setting up an FTP-server and distributing logins and passwords only to those who have been supportive towards Team-Gizka. Maybe they will have to fill in an online form that will make sure that you're a real supporter, you know, deeming out your real intent and such. Isn't that kind of what they are doing at the moment?

 

But do please continue to support them, since it's a wonder that they haven't quit if it weren't for your support. After all, how could they ever be able to finish without you guys since they are "just doing it for themselves on their freetime".

[Blarghagh]

Wow, lots of assumptions going on there. This "with me or against me" attitude you exhibit just stumps me. I've never actively supported them. I honestly don't care that much either way. I'm interested in it, but I have lots of other things to do. Today was the first time in over a year that I even checked if it still existed, because I happened to hear someone talking about KotOR. It's not like I need my KotOR II fix or something. What I do care about is some jerk telling other people what to do. It's exactly why everybody hates fandoms nowadays. They're doing this personal project their free time and for themselves. They basically only made it public because they decided to give it to other people when they were finished, for FREE even! They could have just as easily have decided to keep it to themselves. Even taking the time to update something is generous from them. None of us have any right to expect anything from them, let alone demand. Not me, not anyone, and especially not someone who makes a point of being as antagonistic as possible about it. They can do whatever the hell they want.

Edited April 6, 2009 by TrueNeutral

[Meshugger]

Wow, lots of assumptions going on there. This "with me or against me" attitude you exhibit just stumps me. I've never actively supported them. I honestly don't care that much either way. I'm interested in it, but I have lots of other things to do. It's not like I need my KotOR fix or something.

 

Oh please, none of us would even post here if that was the case.

 

What I do care about is some jerk telling other people what to do. It's exactly why everybody hates fandoms nowadays. They're doing this personal project their free time and for themselves.

 

Team-Gizka has conducted practices whole doing this mod that some find questionable, and people call them out on it. Read between the lines. The critizism lies in what they have done, not what they should do.

 

They basically only made it public because they decided to give it to other people when they were finished, for FREE even!

 

I am sure that you are aware that there are literally tens of thousands of free mods out there, for FREE even! Team-Gizka is not special in any way.

 

They could have just as easily have decided to keep it to themselves. Even taking the time to update something is generous from them. None of us have any right to expect anything from them, let alone demand. Not me, not anyone, and especially not someone who makes a point of being as antagonistic as possible about it. They can do whatever the hell they want.

 

At first everyone was judged of being a bunch of shlogs, at least the antagonistic ones. Later it became apparent to not to judge Team-Gizka on their efforts. Maybe they have a special anti-judgemental license or something. Maybe i have to look up upon the premises of giving critique, be right back!

Edited April 6, 2009 by Meshugger

[MacCorp]

This thread is really just a piece of nostalgia predating the time where TG had their own forums (and in many ways probably also outlived its usefulness) and to the best of my knowledge, Aurora hasn't been active for a very long time.

Someone has to ask. If both of your statements are true, why do you people even bother with maintaining such a thread? Why does this thread exist?

Edited April 6, 2009 by MacCorp

[refuse]

In related news, there is a new build out, but no change in Mantis.

[Blarghagh]

Selective, point for point. Nice. I can do that trick, annoying as it is in missing the bigger picture.

 

Oh please, none of us would even post here if that was the case.

Go ahead and make your case that says posting on a message board is actively doing anything. I'm just here because I'm bored waiting for my physics simulation to be done.

 

Team-Gizka has conducted practices whole doing this mod that some find questionable, and people call them out on it. Read between the lines. The critizism lies in what they have done, not what they should do.

Between the lines is empty space. Pretending you're defending more than your sense of self-entitlement by saying meaningless stuff like "read between the lines" is just a cheap cop-out. This is not literature. There's nothing being described here. There's just your stupid demands.

 

I am sure that you are aware that there are literally tens of thousands of free mods out there, for FREE even! Team-Gizka is not special in any way.

There ARE!? Wow! My mind, he is blown!

 

Other than that, this has nothing to do with my argument. I also never said or implied that Team Gizka was special. Team Gizka has every right to do with their mod what they wish, just as any other mod team does.

 

At first everyone was judged of being a bunch of shlogs, at least the antagonistic ones. Later it became apparent to not to judge Team-Gizka on their efforts. Maybe they have a special anti-judgemental license or something. Maybe i have to look up upon the premises of giving critique, be right back!

Now you're just grasping. Saying Team-Gizka occasionally pulls nasty **** on their fans, that's a critique. One that I would even agree with. Saying Team-Gizka owes it to their fans (i.e.: you) to do certain things differently, that's just a bull**** demand. And you have no right to demand anything from them.

 

I hate it when people pull out the old "whaaah you're wrong because it's just my opinion" thing when it doesn't apply.

 

But fine, go ahead and act that waiting and doing nothing for a long time mean they should listen to you. If that makes you happy, sure, go ahead. It doesn't seem like it does from your posts though, because you seem to be determined to be angry at everything these people you don't know, who don't affect your life do. And, as you said, they don't release anything right? So everything these people do... is nothing. So what are you so angry about?

Edited April 6, 2009 by TrueNeutral

[Meshugger]

Selective, point for point. Nice. I can do that trick, annoying as it is in missing the bigger picture.

 

Oh please, none of us would even post here if that was the case.

Go ahead and make your case that says posting on a message board is actively doing anything. I'm just here because I'm bored waiting for my physics simulation to be done.

 

Team-Gizka has conducted practices whole doing this mod that some find questionable, and people call them out on it. Read between the lines. The critizism lies in what they have done, not what they should do.

Between the lines is empty space. Pretending you're defending more than your sense of self-entitlement by saying meaningless stuff like "read between the lines" is just a cheap cop-out. This is not literature. There's nothing being described here. There's just your stupid demands.

 

I am sure that you are aware that there are literally tens of thousands of free mods out there, for FREE even! Team-Gizka is not special in any way.

There ARE!? Wow! My mind, he is blown!

 

Other than that, this has nothing to do with my argument. I also never said or implied that Team Gizka was special. Team Gizka has every right to do with their mod what they wish, just as any other mod team does.

 

At first everyone was judged of being a bunch of shlogs, at least the antagonistic ones. Later it became apparent to not to judge Team-Gizka on their efforts. Maybe they have a special anti-judgemental license or something. Maybe i have to look up upon the premises of giving critique, be right back!

Now you're just grasping. Saying Team-Gizka occasionally pulls nasty **** on their fans, that's a critique. One that I would even agree with. Saying Team-Gizka owes it to their fans (i.e.: you) to do certain things differently, that's just a bull**** demand. And you have no right to demand anything from them.

 

I hate it when people pull out the old "whaaah you're wrong because it's just my opinion" thing when it doesn't apply.

 

But fine, go ahead and act that waiting and doing nothing for a long time mean they should listen to you. If that makes you happy, sure, go ahead. It doesn't seem like it does from your posts though, because you seem to be determined to be angry at everything these people you don't know, who don't affect your life do. And, as you said, they don't release anything right? So everything these people do... is nothing. So what are you so angry about?

 

Oh you better jest, suggesting something as silly as being angry. I see that there are claims about 'reading between the lines' is an 'empty space' and these kinds of arguments should 'belong to litterature', which of course is a bogus claim to begin with. Well, however it seems that there has still been some 'reading between lines' here after all, since there's one assumption after the other that there's demands to be met and claims of being owed something. No such things have of course been said, maybe someone else is angry here

 

Whops, getting a little bit personal and off-topic here, aren't we?

 

Maybe i need to rewrite it, without any possible implications, that Team-Gizka has handled this in a very bad way. Most of all of course, is being inconsistent on many occations. There hasn't been rational and thought out argument to counter it yet.

[Gorth]

Maybe i need to rewrite it, without any possible implications, that Team-Gizka has handled this in a very bad way. Most of all of course, is being inconsistent on many occations. There hasn't been rational and thought out argument to counter it yet.

It is perfectly possible to say that they have handled some things badly. I think what rubs some people the wrong way is the 'I have waited patiently, therefore they *owe* me!' attitude that some people (not you) seems to exhibit.

 

On that note, I think it is time to let that subject rest, it has already been rehashed a couple of times over the years.

[cogadh]

In related news, there is a new build out, but no change in Mantis.

Mantis was updated some:

http://mantis.team-gizka.org/changelog_page.php

 

The bug count/assignments are not being updated until the betas have a chance to go through 1.0b11, since there were significant changes made to certain sections of the mod that may completely invalidate some of those bug reports.

[Dissbeliever]

In related news, there is a new build out, but no change in Mantis.

Mantis was updated some:

http://mantis.team-gizka.org/changelog_page.php

 

The bug count/assignments are not being updated until the betas have a chance to go through 1.0b11, since there were significant changes made to certain sections of the mod that may completely invalidate some of those bug reports.

 

Whoo'hoo so that should mean it will be ready by the summer of 2006! right?

[gmuno]

Whoo'hoo so that should mean it will be ready by the summer of 2006! right?

 

Uncalled for. It means all bets are off.

[Rycal]

In related news, there is a new build out, but no change in Mantis.

Mantis was updated some:

http://mantis.team-gizka.org/changelog_page.php

 

The bug count/assignments are not being updated until the betas have a chance to go through 1.0b11, since there were significant changes made to certain sections of the mod that may completely invalidate some of those bug reports.

Just because we don't see the progress, doesn't mean it isn't there. The project's dead when they say it's dead I'm perfectly content with waiting, as long as it gets finished. I'll be replaying KOTOR I and II many more times even without TSLRP, and when it comes, I definately will put aside everything else to enjoy the extra content.

 

On that note, I think it is time to let that subject rest, it has already been rehashed a couple of times over the years.

 

Amen to that, Gorth.

[Theseus]

 

[refuse]

 

[Rycal]

Must say I prefer Refuse's picture a lot more than the guy above him.

 

Hell, at least refuse is positive

 

Don't care when it comes out, as long as it does come out. I'll say openly that I played the leaked beta, while of course it was buggy and crashy and whatnot - It still made me even more enthusiastic to play this mod when it's released

[refuse]

Yeah, but Theseus' was more of a 'lol' than my contribution!

[Rycal]

Yeah, but Theseus' was more of a 'lol' than my contribution!

 

Especially considering how fail those four years with that persident were

[Darth InSidious]

This thread is really just a piece of nostalgia predating the time where TG had their own forums (and in many ways probably also outlived its usefulness) and to the best of my knowledge, Aurora hasn't been active for a very long time.

Someone has to ask. If both of your statements are true, why do you people even bother with maintaining such a thread? Why does this thread exist?

Someone has to ask. When will Project Nemesis be done?

 

In other news, loving the demonisation of Dash as some kind of cheap TimFX knockoff. Perhaps as an encore we can blame him for the coal mine closures of the late 80s, take the pressure of Baroness Thatcher for a while?

Edited April 13, 2009 by Darth InSidious

[MacCorp]

This thread is really just a piece of nostalgia predating the time where TG had their own forums (and in many ways probably also outlived its usefulness) and to the best of my knowledge, Aurora hasn't been active for a very long time.

Someone has to ask. If both of your statements are true, why do you people even bother with maintaining such a thread? Why does this thread exist?

Someone has to ask. When will Project Nemesis be done?

 

In other news, loving the demonisation of Dash as some kind of cheap TimFX knockoff. Perhaps as an encore we can blame him for the coal mine closures of the late 80s, take the pressure of Baroness Thatcher for a while?

I think we will.

 

If you have been paying attention, you would have noticed my original post.

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?s=&am...st&p=929136

 

When I look back at this whole mess, I cannot help but laugh at myself and everyone else. I think the community as a whole is acting dramatic over a child's toy. At one end of the spectrum, you have the emotionally driven skeptics. At the other end of the spectrum, you have the emotionally driven loyalists. We are talking about a four to five year old game, which has gone way past it's prime. Most people have moved onto other franchises. Both skeptics and loyalists have a justified approach to their arguements. Does it really matter? If I was not interested in this mod, I would not be posting in this thread. What I have been guilty of is not approaching this rationally. "The Sith Lords" is just a game, and "The Restoration Project" is just a fan created game element. When or if this mod does get released, both skeptics and loyalists will download this project.

 

At the end of the day, the mod will or will not be released. Its out of everyone's control. Even though we may hate rain clouds, there is nothing we can do to prevent them from coming. Life goes on.

 

Edit: Added

If you think about this rationally, everyone's opinion does not mater to everyone else. My opinion holds the same weight as yours Darth Insidious. The only people who truely care about it is ourselves and our family. No one else maters. Within ten years from now, people are going to look back and laugh. That's why we use fake forum names. Do you think my real name is Mac or MacLeod? Hahaha... "There can be only one!"

Edited April 14, 2009 by MacCorp

[Foamhead]

If it was just a trailer and a WIP update, then why the need to hype it for 2.5 weeks?

TG forum members built the hype themselves TBH. Dash posted only one message.

 

All these appologies are getting tiresome. It just shows how little understanding there is from Team-Gizka and their fans, concerning the matter at hand and the nature of Dahus' message.

 

It doesn't matter if the mod will be done tomorrow or in this very moment. The fact of the matter is that TG used in an in-house joke on everyone interested. This conduct is of a very unproffessional manner, only suited to those yes-men that worship any decision that Team-Gizka happens to do. Personally, i thought that the 'summer 2008' was a typo, anything else would've been considered a d***move from their part. I guess that i was wrong in the very end.

 

No, what really happened was:

 

1) Team-Gizka apparantly lacks any form of social understanding. They seem to be completely surprised by the backlash that later happened. Threatening with litigation? That's just a typical "waaaa, i'm gonna tell mommy!"-diatribe that only juveniles do. Grow up already and learn to take some responsibility for your actions.

 

2)"We're just doing it for ourselves! No promises! When it is done! It was just a small message, it is your own fault". Again, what's with the excuses? If you really want to be consequent with your methods, then shut down the site, tell everyone to p*ss off and refuse to do any form of hype, not even after release. Actually, you shouldn't even release it to the public at all to begin with, since you are "just doing for yourselves".

 

But of course you wouldn't do that. By doing so, then Team-Gizka, the Beta-team and all your supporters wouldn't enjoy your status that you have achieved. The reactions from the leaked Beta showed that pretty clearly. Or.....

 

3) Team-Gizka is a bunch of sociopathic trolls that are enjoying a nice social experiment. Just how much can one abuse people's trust? How much longer can we enjoy a fandom of yes-men? Where is exactly lies the boundry of people's self-respect? If true, then i applaud them for managing to conduct a practical joke of such proportions. These things take skill, patience and a lot of hard work.

 

 

So in other words, you are saying what I said a year ago.