alanschu Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 It's impossible to know if you have expended enough health to make parts of the game impossible until you do it. And it's not that they don't save during the level. A saved game that comes after the fact that you've wasted too much health earlier still puts the player in the same position. It's just he unfortunately will probably waste more time hoping he doesn't need to restart (assuming that is even possible) by retrying from that save point, despite it being virtually impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think that's more of a theoretical problem than a real one. You should have an idea how much health you can lose and how much of the level there's still to go and make a judgment whether to redo the fight. Anyway, most games deal with it by distributing health packs through the level, so that you can't use them all up too fast. In an RPG it's often possible to proceed without losing any health, so it's even less of an issue. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 You should have an idea how much health you can lose and how much of the level there's still to go and make a judgment whether to redo the fight. Based on what? In an RPG it's often possible to proceed without losing any health, so it's even less of an issue. Which is why I think that the health mechanics of DX3 is largely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 You should have an idea how much health you can lose and how much of the level there's still to go and make a judgment whether to redo the fight. Based on what? On how much you've already done in that level and what your objectives are. Obviously it'll vary from game to game. In an RPG it's often possible to proceed without losing any health, so it's even less of an issue. Which is why I think that the health mechanics of DX3 is largely irrelevant. They're relevant unless you planning to take a completely non-combat approach. Often how much health you have left will determine how you will play out the rest of the level, which is a good thing. Plus it's good that there's a possibility of failure, even if it's small and consequences not that severe (having to restart the level if you can't somehow figure out how to make it through with the amount of health left). "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) On how much you've already done in that level and what your objectives are. Obviously it'll vary from game to game. How can you know how much you've done though, unless you've done it before. I mean, Deus Ex itself was a great game for making you think you were almost done, only to have you not be done (which I liked) The possibility of failure doesn't go away because health can regenerate. I just don't think it's an issue and feel that the merits of the game will go way beyond the healing mechanism. Edited October 7, 2008 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I'm not saying the game will be bad just because of the healing mechanism, it just might be an indicator the game is trying to be more "accessible" and less tactical than I'd like to see. As I said somewhere in the thread, I'm not ready to jump to conclusions based on the little info we currently have. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I was going to say some more, but I think it's best to just say I will agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Edit: Awesome using Adam as the protagonist name, shows that they're trying. In 2003, you could play a man or a woman and there were different shades of skin color. In 2010, you can play a white guy. Progress - ain't it grand? "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatilliatta Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Somehow I don't see the connection between a lack of a female protagonist and the awesomness of using 'in your face' biblical references again. My official opinion on that matter is that I don't really care so long as the game is better because of the choice that the devs went with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesley2 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Still anticipating this though because i loved the old ones so much. Interesting choices they've made so far though. I'd just love to know when in 2009 (or even if it's going to be in 2009 at all) when this is releasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Aviv Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'm optimistic. The art design is promising. Adam looks very esoteric and, well... French. And I dislike auto-heal as much as the next goon but you jerks are overreacting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'm playing DX2 right now (I've never finished a play-though "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 maybe more of Morpheus? (the "hidden" AI in DX1) when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Rorie Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'm playing DX2 right now (I've never finished a play-though Matthew Rorie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 DX2, all the licensed music was Kidney Thieves, IIRC. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'm playing DX2 right now (I've never finished a play-though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'm playing DX2 right now (I've never finished a play-though "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I don't know why people hate it so much (setting penguins on fire with a guided rocket anyone?) Hate is too strong a word. Its major downfall for me was that it stripped away all the fun aspects of Deus Ex and failed to replace them with anything. Harvey Smith said the game was going to have CHOICES THAT MATTERED. It didn't. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 In the end the rescinded that because they didn't want people to get stuck down a path or something, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 In the end the rescinded that because they didn't want people to get stuck down a path or something, right? I can't remember what the rationalization was. I don't know if real choice and consequence was EVER in the game. It wouldn't be such a big deal really, except Smith harped on 2 major things during development of IW: a numberless world (real immersive worlds don't have numbers ie skills, hit points, damage ranges etc) and real choices that mattered. I think IW failed to deliver on both. His numberless world was no more immersive than Spector's numbered one and there was no more choice and consquence in IW than in DX 1. And in the process he chose to drop some of the things that made DX interesting. I don't think IW was a horrible game, just pretty mediocre and not terribly involving. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I have been considering picking it up on Steam just because I never did play it. I still might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strix Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I have been considering picking it up on Steam just because I never did play it. I still might. Invisible War or the original? If you were talking about the latter it's free to play from Game Tap, or at least it was when I tried the service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I have been considering picking it up on Steam just because I never did play it. I still might. If you can get it cheap, you might find it an interesting play through. The core aspect of choosing your path through the maps is still in place. For me it just wasn't the same experience as the original. I did finish it though. Unlike Bioshock. lol. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I own the original. Not IW. It's like $10 or $15 on Steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I don't know why people hate it so much (setting penguins on fire with a guided rocket anyone?) Hate is too strong a word. Its major downfall for me was that it stripped away all the fun aspects of Deus Ex and failed to replace them with anything. Harvey Smith said the game was going to have CHOICES THAT MATTERED. It didn't. All the fun aspects? The core of multiple approaches was still there, as you said. Plus the cool weapons and abilities, and you can still build your character for the approach you want. How many modern games can we say that about? As far as overhyping the game and winding up hurting it, yeah, I guess we've never seen that before "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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