taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 I would like to add that i find it funny that Bill Clinton, the "tax & spend" liberal, was the most pro-"free market" of the bunch. And i don't mean within the US borders, he actually opened up the US more to the global economy. based on the cartoon? hardly indicative of anything other than political bias. reagan was the one that passed the balanced budget act (and the compromise with congress was a tax raise, btw). clinton got the benefit of being required to balance the budget, and a republican controlled congress. tax and spend liberals can't spend unless congress and the president are willing to do so. when there's a split, there is no spending. when there's control of both by one party, they're all spendy, liberal or conservative. clinton is apparently one of those "third way" guys, from what i've been reading. nothing more than a silly disguise for "socialist that doesn't want to admit it." taks comrade taks... just because.
Xard Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 clinton is apparently one of those "third way" guys, from what i've been reading. nothing more than a silly disguise for "socialist that doesn't want to admit it." Jesus Christ, couldn't your world be any more black and white? What the hell do you even mean with socialism? It must be very different from meaning rest of the world gives to it How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
Morgoth Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Well in America, the meaning of a word is often the opposite of the actual meaning... Rain makes everything better.
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 clinton is apparently one of those "third way" guys, from what i've been reading. nothing more than a silly disguise for "socialist that doesn't want to admit it." Jesus Christ, couldn't your world be any more black and white? What the hell do you even mean with socialism? It must be very different from meaning rest of the world gives to it excuse me? exactly what is YOUR understanding of socialism? you all seem so sure of yourselves... tell me. Well in America, the meaning of a word is often the opposite of the actual meaning... bull****. taks comrade taks... just because.
Morgoth Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 So that means you agree with my allegation? Rain makes everything better.
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 hardly. though the american use of the term "liberal" is backwards. taks comrade taks... just because.
Meshugger Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 I would like to add that i find it funny that Bill Clinton, the "tax & spend" liberal, was the most pro-"free market" of the bunch. And i don't mean within the US borders, he actually opened up the US more to the global economy. based on the cartoon? hardly indicative of anything other than political bias. reagan was the one that passed the balanced budget act (and the compromise with congress was a tax raise, btw). clinton got the benefit of being required to balance the budget, and a republican controlled congress. tax and spend liberals can't spend unless congress and the president are willing to do so. when there's a split, there is no spending. when there's control of both by one party, they're all spendy, liberal or conservative. clinton is apparently one of those "third way" guys, from what i've been reading. nothing more than a silly disguise for "socialist that doesn't want to admit it." taks It was not based on the cartoon. It was just anecdote. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 It was not based on the cartoon. It was just anecdote. ah, gotcha. not sure i buy into that notion, however. at least, i'm not sure i agree that any politician we've had in the US is actually "free market," at least not for quite some time. nafta is a bad thing, IMO, too. oh, that movie i watched, bordertown (mentioned on the movie thread), had some not-so-nice things to say about nafta and the problems it has caused. not a big deal with canada, since they are economically on par with the US (so there isn't really any wage imbalance problem with them), but with mexico, and central america... taks comrade taks... just because.
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 btw, an interesting side effect of this crisis: oil is dropping pretty quickly. sitting at $96/bbl right now. trump has an interview with cavuto in which he discusses this. normally i don't like trump, but he seems to be spot on with this one. my gas has been coming down, too (oil and gas are not directly tied, but obviously related). i'm also surprised that hurricane ike didn't cause more problems with gas prices since that cut a path right across all of the US' refining capabilities. guess damage to the refineries wasn't as bad as originally forecast. taks comrade taks... just because.
Meshugger Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 It was not based on the cartoon. It was just anecdote. ah, gotcha. not sure i buy into that notion, however. at least, i'm not sure i agree that any politician we've had in the US is actually "free market," at least not for quite some time. nafta is a bad thing, IMO, too. oh, that movie i watched, bordertown (mentioned on the movie thread), had some not-so-nice things to say about nafta and the problems it has caused. not a big deal with canada, since they are economically on par with the US (so there isn't really any wage imbalance problem with them), but with mexico, and central america... taks Nah, i haven't had Clinton on my mind for a while, but the cartoon reminded me. Here's a more superficial analysis. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 clinton was realistically a huge statist. he truly attempted to socialize many facets of our economy, but was unable to. as i have noted on many occasions, he was unable to simply because he had a republican controlled congress to deal with. they were weak, however, so some of his measures got through. ultimately, the president has very little to do with markets and economics. congress wields the signature on the checks. the fed controls the money supply. the president is merely a voice. taks comrade taks... just because.
Moatilliatta Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Oh hey, Xard, I think you posted the wrong one. Here is the correct version, no need to thank me.
Hildegard Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Oh hey, Xard, I think you posted the wrong one. Here is the correct version, no need to thank me. Now you really showed him hehehe :george bush smerk:
Moatilliatta Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Showing who what? I'm just correcting him by showing the good people of this forum what reality really is like.
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 most don't understand reality, moat. we'll spiral down (as we have been doing) this collectivist funnel until it implodes, and it will unless those that are smart enough, and in possession of large enough kahones, step up and work to de-program the masses that think they will benefit from the gun to their heads. once people realize that what the third way proponents are really telling us is "help your fellow man or go to jail," maybe they'll see the light. taks comrade taks... just because.
Xard Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 once people realize that what the third way proponents are really telling us is "help your fellow man or go to jail," maybe they'll see the light. sounds harsh but if that's only way to trigger caring for others in this day's world it is worth it *shrug* How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
random n00b Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 sounds harsh but if that's only way to trigger caring for others in this day's world it is worth it *shrug*"It's worth it"? If you don't mind, I'd rather make that decision by myself. Moral superiority stops being so when you step over free will.
Killian Kalthorne Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 In capitalism only the rich have power and some of those rich people didn't even earn the wealth they got. They were just lucky to be born in the right family. And when the rich do get in trouble it is the government that comes to the rescue. That is what this bailout is about. The rich CEOs of these companies pretty much ran their companies to the ground while raking in millions, without a care to those beneath them, then when they get to the point that they can't milk the system any longer and their cash cow has gone dry they cry for the government, filled with "friends" they fed money to, to bail them out so they can milk those who are poorer even more through government tax money. Yeah, capitalism is such a wonderful thing. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
Xard Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) sounds harsh but if that's only way to trigger caring for others in this day's world it is worth it *shrug*"It's worth it"? If you don't mind, I'd rather make that decision by myself. Moral superiority stops being so when you step over free will. I was being provocative Free Will is automatically compromised when one enters society, or heck, even when meeting other humans (Sartre's "hell is other people" for example). It isn't destroyed (well duh) but it is constrained to varying degrees. I don't remember who it was but some philosopher said that "man can be completely free only when he is alone in middle of desert" taks advocates that it's every man for himself out there. Society isn't only about rights, it's about duties as well Edited September 30, 2008 by Xard How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 sounds harsh but if that's only way to trigger caring for others in this day's world it is worth it *shrug* ah, yes, now we finally get to the truth. it's not about morality... that was just a ruse. it's about you (and at least, those that think like you) asserting, BY FORCE, your will over others. yeah, hypocrites as i said. you don't believe in rights, you only believe in making sure people think the way you do. btw, look it up, you've just defined tyranny. good job, xard. taks comrade taks... just because.
thepixiesrock Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Everyone is always blaming big business and the government. No one ever blames the people who can't make their house payment because they tried to buy a house they couldn't afford. Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.
Killian Kalthorne Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 That is why we need to find the balancing point and moderation. With the collapse of the USSR, and the economic meltdown of the US has both proven that both sides are failures. What we need is somewhere in middle. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
taks Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 In capitalism only the rich have power and some of those rich people didn't even earn the wealth they got. so what, you're saying you want some of that power, too? hmmm... and who has an ideology based on greed? They were just lucky to be born in the right family. really, and bill gates inherited all of his wealth? steve ballmer? andrew viterbi? warren buffet? And when the rich do get in trouble it is the government that comes to the rescue. yup, that sucks, can't argue there. That is what this bailout is about. The rich CEOs of these companies pretty much ran their companies to the ground while raking in millions, without a care to those beneath them, then when they get to the point that they can't milk the system any longer and their cash cow has gone dry they cry for the government, filled with "friends" they fed money to, to bail them out so they can milk those who are poorer even more through government tax money. it was known that this would happen before it did. don't be so naive. Yeah, capitalism is such a wonderful thing. ok, let me repeat, this has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism. it is ridiculous that you fail to recognize this. the regulations that set this whole bailout up are not a part of capitalism. none of what you just complained about in that last paragraph could ever have happened in a capitalist system. none. take away the government intervention and there is no bailout for the rich, there are no back room deals, and CEOs aren't getting rich taking risks they shouldn't take! you can't blame capitalism for something socialism created. taks comrade taks... just because.
Killian Kalthorne Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Everyone is always blaming big business and the government. No one ever blames the people who can't make their house payment because they tried to buy a house they couldn't afford. We have a government that can't control its spending, being fiscally irresponsible. Do you think its citizenry will show restraint when those that governs them does not? "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
thepixiesrock Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Everyone is always blaming big business and the government. No one ever blames the people who can't make their house payment because they tried to buy a house they couldn't afford. We have a government that can't control its spending, being fiscally irresponsible. Do you think its citizenry will show restraint when those that governs them does not? Is that a serious argument? Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.
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