The Witcher Enhanced Edition is out!!!

[Moatilliatta]

Everything is very pretty, but you are glued to the ground with the exception of certain stone structures you can scale just by moving. Running around trying to figure out where the game will actually let you go can be frustrating. Especially when you are defeated by a pebble or a two foot fence.

Just about every RPG includes this since jumping/climbing rarely has a use and is too much work.

[Slowtrain]

Everything is very pretty, but you are glued to the ground with the exception of certain stone structures you can scale just by moving. Running around trying to figure out where the game will actually let you go can be frustrating. Especially when you are defeated by a pebble or a two foot fence.

Just about every RPG includes this since jumping/climbing rarely has a use and is too much work.

 

 

Hmmm? CRPgs are better if you character can't jump, crouch, swim, climb or fly? Are you applauding this? Or just being an apologist for game developers? Perhaps we should follow Shadow Paladin's advice and eliminate all forms of movement from crpgs and simply have character's instantly transported from place to place? That way gamers don't have to deal with the annoyance of walking and developers don't have to spend their time implementing something that has no real use. I mean, walking has less use than any other gameplay feature since all it does is move a character from point a to point b which can be much more easily done and explained with any sort of instant transport system.

 

 

rarely has a use .

 

 

Certainly a feature can't have any use if its not in the game. Perhaps developers should spend a little while thinking how to use such features to make a game more interesting rather than simply dropping them.

 

The concept of a thief class that can't climb has always somewhat boggled my mind.

[Gorgon]

This is exactly the reason games never ever get better, they just get prettier.

 

Is there some cosmic rule that prohibits proper movement mechanics in CRPGs. Take Assassin's Creed as a forinstance. Overall the game is a train wreck, but the movement and combat are good, you can climb almost anywhere. Take that and stick it in a proper CRPG.

 

As an aside the creators of Guildwars, the MMO, are building a new engine. They decided to ask people what features they missed in the old one, among the top ranks is jumping, climbing, flight. And guess what they are implementing it.

 

It's not a fantastic game or anything, but it shows what gamers want often bears no resemblance to what developers decide to spend time on.

 

Time and budget often means that developers stop short of setting the bar high enough to create something that really inspires.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Gorgon

[Nick_i_am]

I SRPGs I don't mind a crap when out of battle movement is limited to menus (such as in Front Mission or Disgaea), since i'm playing for the battles.

 

In CRPGS, exploration and a personal attachment to the world makes all the difference, being able to 'walk in your chracters boots' is actually important to the game. 'walking has less use than any other gameplay feature' is actually a falsehood (though I know you were 'joking' and that i'm actually backing up your point).

[Moatilliatta]

heh you guys are so predictable. Don't ever change.

 

Bioware games and CD projekt games wouldn't evolve through jumping/climbing/flight/wanking since they do not in general try to achieve something that those abilities would help to achieve. It really is quite simple.

 

I do agree that certain CRPGs would benefit from this, such as the Elderscrolls games, and yes it was a crappy decision by Bethesda to remove climbing(should have been improved instead) and levitation.

 

As an aside the creators of Guildwars, the MMO, are building a new engine. They decided to ask people what features they missed in the old one, among the top ranks is jumping, climbing, flight. And guess what they are implementing it.

 

It's not a fantastic game or anything, but it shows what gamers want often bears no resemblance to what developers decide to spend time on.

Ha no, it shows that Guildwars is inferior to WoW and only for people without money.

WoW has had jumping since release and flying since the Burning Crusade in special places. MMOs are not CRPGs and as such might need things that Bioware games don't need or use. Hell even in WoW the primary use of jumping is to jump when walking someplace because the player is bored, kinda supports my point. It's possible that Bioware will include jumping/flying/climbing when they stop making 'lol corridors!' games.

 

I don't think there ever were a point in Bio games where I wanted to jump, but then again perhaps I'm just stupid.

 

 

But enough of my ponderings, are you guys capable of giving examples of times when you couldn't jump and wanted to? Do tell.

[Strix]

...it was a crappy decision by Bethesda to remove climbing [...] and levitation.

 

Those were cut because of the engine used in Oblivion, although why they removed climbing from Morrowind I do not know, and how they removed the interior of the cities from the main map. If you use a flying mod, or simply no-clip, and go over a major town you will see only a crude outline of the buildings, nothing more. Even if you "land" within the area you will simply see the unfinished modules - not the true interior.

[Moatilliatta]

I know. It still is a valid complaint since the nature of the kind of games that Bethesda creates need levitation and partly climbing to feel properly done and open up to the kind of choices people would want. At least in my opinion. Choosing a crappy engine or being unwilling to do your own isn't a proper excuse.

 

They should have decided that climbing and levitation was in already when deciding which features are in and as such they should have made sure that they could get it in.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I got tired of waitin so I started replaying, got to chapter 2 in only about 3h playtime. But one thing that really bugs me is the discrpancies in the story, like

when the salamander thugs cleary say they raped Ilse, but then everyone else act like it was Mikul

or

the hunt for salamandra in chapter 2 seems to constantly switch what youre looking for; its either 1)someones whos working with them 2)their top agent in the district 3) azar javed himself

and so on.

 

 

I suspect the designers didnt care to coordinate their quests/story arcs so that it matched what the other guys on the team was doing. That, or that they changed part B of a quest but forgot to change part A so the two match.

[Calax]

that might also be localization. I didn't notice those discrepancies in my enhanced edition. of course the thugs in the first act might be referring to shani rather than the other chick.

[jaguars4ever]

I got tired of waitin so I started replaying, got to chapter 2 in only about 3h playtime. But one thing that really bugs me is the discrpancies in the story, like

when the salamander thugs cleary say they raped Ilse, but then everyone else act like it was Mikul

or

the hunt for salamandra in chapter 2 seems to constantly switch what youre looking for; its either 1)someones whos working with them 2)their top agent in the district 3) azar javed himself

and so on.

 

 

I suspect the designers didnt care to coordinate their quests/story arcs so that it matched what the other guys on the team was doing. That, or that they changed part B of a quest but forgot to change part A so the two match.

Who's Ilse?

 

It's been a while since I've Witched.

[Moatilliatta]

The girl who killed herself in the crypt in act 1? or some other girl who doesn't matter much.

 

I seem to remember that it made more sense when I played it. Are you sure you did all sidequest and heard all the dialogue Kaftan? Are you playing in english or (gaming gods forbid) swedish?

 

Very slight spoilers:

 

I seem to remember that the point of that is to cast doubt on what happen and as such make the Witchers decision harder.

 

[Kaftan Barlast]

Of course Im playing in english, you dolts! What do you think I am? German?!

 

 

 

And Im quite certain these discrepancies are entirely developer-related, I have trouble believing that they put the english version through translation and voice recording TWICE without discovering bad translation.

[Meshugger]

Kaftan,

when you found Ilse's body, did you also find the vial of poison next to her body? IIRC, the witch gave it to her because she was already miserable in her relationship with Mikul

.

 

I could be wrong though.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Of course I did.

You go into the crypt, find the girl, take the vial. Mikul goes "noo, not my sweet isle"(indicating that he loved her). Then the witch says that mikul raped Ilse and that she bought the poison to kill herself. Then the bandits in the tavern says something like "lets do a number on her like we did with Mikuls Ilse" cleary indicating that they raped Ilse. Then in the scene outside the cave you cant say anything but "Isle bought the poison to kill herself after mikul raped her". You can also say something about the rape to mikul when going into Vizima.

 

 

 

So somewhere the designers who wrote the quests and the dialogue hadnt synched with eachother on what really happened.

[Gorgon]

I got tired of waitin so I started replaying, got to chapter 2 in only about 3h playtime. But one thing that really bugs me is the discrpancies in the story, like

when the salamander thugs cleary say they raped Ilse, but then everyone else act like it was Mikul

or

the hunt for salamandra in chapter 2 seems to constantly switch what youre looking for; its either 1)someones whos working with them 2)their top agent in the district 3) azar javed himself

and so on.

 

 

I suspect the designers didnt care to coordinate their quests/story arcs so that it matched what the other guys on the team was doing. That, or that they changed part B of a quest but forgot to change part A so the two match.

One salamander has a line to the effect of

'she won't make us wait like Mikul'. Both Mikull and the salamanders raped her. At least that's what I got from it, the journal is vague though.

 

 

I kinda like the idea that it's all supposition though, that there are no indisputable facts.

 

In Chapter two it is possible to do almost all the quests at once in random order, this breeds a lot of confusion about what you are supposed to do and why. On one hand I like not having to do everything in a particular order, and on the other it's very confusing.

 

Focusing on one quest at a time and playing it to it's conclusion seems to help somewhat.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Gorgon

[jaguars4ever]

What was the deal with

Abigail

? Was she lying or telling the truth? Like Kaftan pointed above, there is that dichotomy over the

rape

incident, but I also remember her in possession of that

vodoo doll

...

 

Regardless, I did save her in my game and got some sweet b00bie lovin' for my efforts!

[Calax]

I think it'd designed so that you have a probable reason at the end of act one to go either way in your decision.

[Gorgon]

They were all guilty and all contributed

[Meshugger]

And thus,

 

"I simply chose the lesser evil"

[Pidesco]

What was the deal with

Abigail

? Was she lying or telling the truth? Like Kaftan pointed above, there is that dichotomy over the

rape

incident, but I also remember her in possession of that

vodoo doll

...

 

Regardless, I did save her in my game and got some sweet b00bie lovin' for my efforts!

 

While I haven't tried it, I think you can bed her and then give her to the peasants.

[jaguars4ever]

What was the deal with

Abigail

? Was she lying or telling the truth? Like Kaftan pointed above, there is that dichotomy over the

rape

incident, but I also remember her in possession of that

vodoo doll

...

 

Regardless, I did save her in my game and got some sweet b00bie lovin' for my efforts!

 

While I haven't tried it, I think you can bed her and then give her to the peasants.

In the game you mean?

[Pidesco]

Game? What game?

[Gorgon]

Does any one know what choice you have to make during the bank robbery to remain neutral

[Calax]

Does any one know what choice you have to make during the bank robbery to remain neutral

you can't... At least I couldn't find one, either you kill the robbers or the order guards.

[LostStraw]

Does any one know what choice you have to make during the bank robbery to remain neutral

you can't... At least I couldn't find one, either you kill the robbers or the order guards.

 

You sure?

 

 

I didn't kill any order guards or robbers last time I went through the bank mission. I helped the Squirrels escape through the tunnels killing some Kikimores along the way. Said I wanted to remain neutral and that I'd help them the Witcher way.

 

I figured it was the most neutral path since there was no human or Squirrel bloodshed. I don't know how much it matters though because I think the decision that actually affects the ending of the game, whether your neutral or not, comes later.