MMO, please?

[gigahound]

Not-so-patiently waiting for an online game with the FPS nature of Hellgate: London and a more hard core sci-fi theme but with the dedication and quality and philosophy of Blizzard...come on guys, you know you want to...and we all know you could.

[Sand]

Why the hell would anyone want yet another MMO? We got plenty of those craptastic games as it is.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

You want another ****ty MMO?! Please keep your insanity to yourself, it is not wanted here.

[gigahound]

Learn to read; I want more quality online experiences. There's precious few to go around and the only ones that had any potential were rushed out the door before they were finished. I want to see quality studios do more quality work that will thrill me longer than a week or two then make me wait another 3-4 yrs for the next quality endeavor. The online market works with the right strategy. Myself and many other people are willing to pay every month for a quality experience but the past couple years all we've been given is unfinished material that sometimes doesn't even work out of the flippin box.

 

I've been following this team since Baldur's Gate. I believe they would give us a great online game. I don't need another Aliens product, or Star Wars product and they don't seem interested in any more generic fantasy RPGs.

 

Millions of online gamers are growing bored with World of Warcraft but everything that has come out since has been less than remarkable.

 

In case you hadn't notice, the traditional pc games market is dying with no sign of a turnaround any time soon. Stop being naive thinking that more online games will sully your own precious entertainment experience.

 

There are enough failures in the online market now that any studio with the right team and philosophy can do a good job if they want to. The only thing Obsidian would have to fear is success. They are a winning team and would only give us a quality online product.

[Zoma]

Feargus once stated that Obsidian will remain as a relatively small company (around 150 < 100 people) and will be solely focused on making standard games in the market and unlikely to step foot on MMO market.

 

The reason is that it takes a long time to make a reasonable MMO game as well as development costs which can easily go up as high as 35 million. Making an MMO game would also mean Obsidian would have to raise the game like a baby of their own, requiring to commit a large project group of people unlike the NWN2 patching team, to maintain the game of providing updates and fixing bugs.

 

Now the problem comes if the MMO fails to find the required success to cover the overhead cost of maintaining it, Obsidian will pretty much face dire consequences as a company of being unable to earn the needed profits as well as unable to commit people in new projects since 1/3 of the fewer than 200 Obsidian peons are needed to maintain the MMO game.

[H]

Nah, Obsidian's main strength is dialogue, characters and plotting. I just can't imagine them making an MMORPG. Maybe an MMORTS...

[Volourn]

"I've been following this team since Baldur's Gate."

 

This 'team' didn't work on BG. In fact, only a small handful of them had anything to do with BG at all. Nice try, though.

 

Obsidian is NOT BIs. And, even if they were, BIS didn't develop BG. They published it. Outside of Mr. U, hardly any of Obsidian smelled BG let alone worked on it except posisbly as QA on behalf of BIS/Interplay. L0L

 

As for MMORPG, bring on a good one. Don't let the selfish crybabies stop you from wanting one.

 

 

 

"Feargus once stated that Obsidian will remain as a relatively small company (around 150 < 100 people) and will be solely focused on making standard games in the market and unlikely to step foot on MMO market."

 

Things change. Mr. U of everyone knows that....

[mkreku]

The problem with all MMO's and why it's such a mismatch with Obsidian is that it's not supposed to end. Ever. How do you write an interesting story, storytelling being Obsidian's main strength, for a game that has no end?

[SteveThaiBinh]

Learn to read;

Well said. And sorry, our welcoming committee can at times leave something to be desired.

 

Mkreku is right to say that Obsidian's strengths lie in storytelling, so if they were to make an MMO it would have to be a very different MMO to those we've seen before, Hellgate: London included. It depends if they have a good idea, but I'd have to say I wouldn't be all that thrilled if Obsidian announced they were doing an MMO. Just not my cup of tea, really.

[kirottu]

The problem with all MMO's and why it's such a mismatch with Obsidian is that it's not supposed to end. Ever. How do you write an interesting story, storytelling being Obsidian's main strength, for a game that has no end?

 

You can make interesting subplots and finish them. You should remember that Georg Ziets who was the mastermind behind Mask of the Betrayer

[MarwinElMaco]

gigahound, welcome to the Obsidian forums.

MMO? Oh please god NO!

[random n00b]

Not-so-patiently waiting for an online game with the FPS nature of Hellgate: London and a more hard core sci-fi theme but with the dedication and quality and philosophy of Blizzard...come on guys, you know you want to...and we all know you could.

Yeah, it'd be neat to see Obsidz try their hand at something like that. And if there's a dev team with the quality to pull it well, it's them. Whether they would be able to undertake the project on their own or need the help of a publisher (with the degree of creative interference that entails) for the reasons others have stated, is another matter.

 

We'll see how good they really are at innovating (and selling innovative stuff) when AP is out. But if it does well, maybe they could come up with something that "will change the way you think about MMOs". One can only hope.

 

Welcome to the board, and don't mind our more feral members. They are just a little bitter because of the latest news about KotOR is all.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Learn to read; I want more quality online experiences.

 

Well, MMOs and "quality online experiences" tend to be exact opposites - if you truly want that try a small Neverwinter Nights I/II server.

 

 

I've been following this team since Baldur's Gate.

 

Huh? Obsidian did not make Baldur's Gate.

 

Millions of online gamers are growing bored with World of Warcraft but everything that has come out since has been less than remarkable.

 

Since World of Warcrap was also "less than remarkable," I cannot see what their problem is.

 

 

Stop being naive thinking that more online games will sully your own precious entertainment experience.

 

Have you not heard the news about Kotor III? It seems that MMOs do pose a threat after all.

[random n00b]

Have you not heard the news about Kotor III? It seems that MMOs do pose a threat after all.

Sure. Because they did cancel K3 to make room for KotOR online, right?

 

Only... they didn't. K3 wasn't being developed whatsoever (unless it's that other Bio secret project, in which case, this changes nothing), and any hopes it would be are just wishful thinking.

[Xard]

Actually it was developed back in the day - by LA themselves (now that would be even more horrible fate) - but it was cancelled back in 2005 IIRC

 

I think LA's unwillinges to hand K3 over to Obsidian is because of the whole design philosophy, namely MCA's unique (KILL THE GOD) stand on the Force, moral grayness and all other so not Star Warsy trappings

Edited July 23, 2008 by Xard

[Deadly_Nightshade]

K3 wasn't being developed whatsoever...

 

Umm... No, Kotor III was in development at one time.

[Sand]

Learn to read; I want more quality online experiences.

 

"MMO, please" is the thread title is it not? You want quality online experiences yet clamouring for a MMO. There is not a single MMO out there that I consider a "quality" game. Not a single one.

 

There's precious few to go around and the only ones that had any potential were rushed out the door before they were finished. I want to see quality studios do more quality work that will thrill me longer than a week or two then make me wait another 3-4 yrs for the next quality endeavor.

 

You know, there are other things one can do to pass the time than just game. Read a book, take classes at a community college, create some mods, and the like.

 

The online market works with the right strategy. Myself and many other people are willing to pay every month for a quality experience but the past couple years all we've been given is unfinished material that sometimes doesn't even work out of the flippin box.

 

Yes, and there are dozens of MMos out there for you to waste your money on. If you want games to work out of the box 100% of the time, go console.

 

I've been following this team since Baldur's Gate.

 

If I need to learn to read then you need to learn to do research.

 

I believe they would give us a great online game. I don't need another Aliens product, or Star Wars product and they don't seem interested in any more generic fantasy RPGs.

 

Then don't buy them. Problem solved.

 

Millions of online gamers are growing bored with World of Warcraft but everything that has come out since has been less than remarkable.

 

And that is our problem? Online gaming is only as exciting as the people playing it. After all, its online, interacting with other people. If WoW is getting boring it is because the people playing are boring.

 

In case you hadn't notice, the traditional pc games market is dying with no sign of a turnaround any time soon. Stop being naive thinking that more online games will sully your own precious entertainment experience.

 

They have been saying that since the late 90's. After a decade of that "doom and gloom" PC gaming is still around. Who would have thunk it?

 

There are enough failures in the online market now that any studio with the right team and philosophy can do a good job if they want to. The only thing Obsidian would have to fear is success. They are a winning team and would only give us a quality online product.

 

Yeah, its called NWN2. That is how far I want to see an Obsidian game online. I rather they focus on good, solid and interesting stories in single player games.

[Volourn]

"Mkreku is right to say that Obsidian's strengths lie in storytelling, so if they were to make an MMO it would have to be a very different MMO to those we've seen before, Hellgate: London included."

 

And, once upon a time, BIO's strengths lied in medical software... 10 years later, they're a star RPG developer. *shrug*

 

 

 

"I think LA's unwillinges to hand K3 over to Obsidian is because of the whole design philosophy, namely MCA's unique (KILL THE GOD) stand on the Force, moral grayness and all other so not Star Warsy trappings"

 

I doubt LA's doubts about handing KOTOR3 over to Obsidian has anything to do with its story. Afterall, LA *did* approve the story. I'd wager that while KOTOR2 presumably sold well; it didn't sell well enough to make LA feel like throwing more money at Obsidian KOTOR3 without a second thought. They might eventually; but it's not a slam dunk.

 

This is probably why LA probably turned back to BIo depsite BIO 'moving on'. LA probably tossed so much money at BIO; they simply logically couldn't turn it down for KOTOR3/KOTOR MMO/whatever the BIO EA/LA project ends up being.

 

No offesne to Obsidian; but that's business.

 

On topic, MMORPGs have likely crossed Obsidian's mind, and I'm sure they have the atlent to make agood one. If people claim they like Obsidian as much as they claim to; they shouldn't understimate them.

 

I mean, if a trio of doctors cna gof rom the medical profession to medical software to developing games; I think Obsidian can make the relatively short leap from RPGs to MMORPGs since both share a lot more in common that RPGs and medical software. L0L

 

Unless you are admitting that BIO is better than Obsidian yet again?

 

Oops.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Volourn

[Sand]

I have no doubt that Obsidian can make a "decent" MMO. I just prefer they didn't. Selfish, yes, but its a good kind of selfish. At least to me.

 

As for Bioware being better than Obsidian, I don't see one being better than the other. Both have very different styles, yet many similarities. The only thing Bioware has better than Obsidian is probably resources, given the fact that Bioware has the money earned from the sells of 8 completed games, and a big name publisher, EA, paying the bills, compared to Obsidian's 2 released games and being still an independent company.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Sand

[random n00b]

Umm... No, Kotor III was in development at one time.

Yeah, there was an in-house LA team, that got the shaft when LA enacted their mass layoffs a few years ago. It wasn't a MMO that killed K3... it was LA's own lack of interest on it. Good thing I said that it wasn't cancelled specifically to make room for a MMO (the only thing that would lend support to your assumptions)... but you managed to miss the emphasis placed in the italics.

 

Oh well.

[Volourn]

"As for Bioware being better than Obsidian, I don't see one being better than the other"

 

I was mocking those who insist that Obsidian should 'stick' with what they're 'good' at and not branch out in fear of 'bombing' or 'screwing up'. If BIo can go from making medical software to successful RPG development; I'm sure Obsidian can handle going from RPGs to MMORPGs since the differences are minor in comparison...

[Sand]

True enough, I just prefer that they don't.

[gigahound]

For those not in the know, the founding members of this company were also part of the team(s) who made the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series and just for the guys who thought I wouldn't actually do some research to back up my defense, less than a minute of searching got me this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_Entertainment. With a little more research I could probably connect this company all the way back to the Fallout games and Planescape Torment. I'm not fully up to speed on current happenings but I've been reading about them for years. I signed on to these boards near the very beginning of this company but they were producing content so slowly I only come here once in a while for an update on their current projects.

 

If you don't like MMOs, that's fine. It's true that most MMOs suck, which is why I'm looking to quality studios to make something that doesn't suck.

 

Someone said that WoW was unremarkable...nearly 10 million gamers seem to disagree, but some of them are only playing because it's the best thing available.

 

The recent offerings run down like this: Hellgate: London's management has given a lay-off to almost every employee, there is talk of an investor taking over to keep the game running.

Age of Conan has now seen an over 60% drop in subscriptions and is banning people for discussing the issues, I just read yesterday that investors are letting it go now.

Warhammer, still in development, has begun cutting content to meet their launch date...certainly not a good sign.

 

What these games all have in common is not that MMOs suck, but the management teams and publishers have the wrong philosophy; they ship games that simply are not finished and sometimes don't even work out of the box, Age of Conan even had a shipment of games that did not include their access keys for crying out loud.

 

Blizzard proved that an MMO can succeed if it's supported properly.

 

I honestly doubt that Obsidian would go the MMO route, it really is prohibitively expensive and they would be at the mercy of investors and a publisher, but I think it's a good discussion.

 

Also, someone mentioned that if I want a game that works out of the box to go play console games; you sir, are a fool. Anyone who buys a game should expect it to work out of the box, they should also expect some bugs and some systems might not be compatible. There was a D&D game that came out a few years ago, I think it was Pools of Radiance, it had a lot of promise, but the vast majority of people who bought it couldn't play it until a patch was released online. There was a lot of fall out from the incident. A buggy game or insufficient system at player end is not the same as a game that is simply broken out of the box.

Edited July 27, 2008 by gigahound

[samm]

For those not in the know, the founding members of this company were also part of the team(s) who made the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series and just for the guys who thought I wouldn't actually do some research to back up my defense, less than a minute of searching got me this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_Entertainment. With a little more research I could probably connect this company all the way back to the Fallout games and Planescape Torment.

Interesting, yet well known to almost anyone on these boards, although by most known better than by you: Baldur's Gate was developed by Bioware. And how does this connect to MMOGs or your plead to create one?

 

The recent offerings run down like this: Hellgate: London's management has given a lay-off to almost every employee, there is talk of an investor taking over to keep the game running.

Age of Conan has now seen an over 60% drop in subscriptions and is banning people for discussing the issues, I just read yesterday that investors are letting it go now.

Warhammer, still in development, has begun cutting content to meet their launch date...certainly not a good sign.

 

What these games all have in common is not that MMOs suck, but the management teams and publishers have the wrong philosophy; they ship games that simply are not finished and sometimes don't even work out of the box, Age of Conan even had a shipment of games that did not include their access keys for crying out loud.

All the more reason not to invest the millions needed to create and sustain an MMORPG for an oversatisfied market when even the most hyped games tend to fail.

 

I honestly doubt that Obsidian would go the MMO route, it really is prohibitively expensive and they would be at the mercy of investors and a publisher, but I think it's a good discussion.

And it wouldn't interest the persons interested in Obsidian's games, read: target audience. At least it's neither my nor many other's cup of tea as shown by the answers in this thread.

 

Also, someone mentioned that if I want a game that works out of the box to go play console games; you sir, are a fool. Anyone who buys a game should expect it to work out of the box, they should also expect some bugs and some systems might not be compatible. There was a D&D game that came out a few years ago, I think it was Pools of Radiance, it had a lot of promise, but the vast majority of people who bought it couldn't play it until a patch was released online. There was a lot of fall out from the incident. A buggy game or insufficient system at player end is not the same as a game that is simply broken out of the box.

Alright, but again: how does it connect to the topic or your plead for an MMOG? If people are derailing your very own thread, it's usually best not to participate in its derailment Edited July 28, 2008 by samm

[Sand]

None of the founding members of Obsidian developed Baldur's Gate. They were part of the company who published the game, not developed the game.

 

gigahound, get a clue please.