TSL Restoration Project: The Phantom Deadline, READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING.

[GreasyDogMeat]

What in the world is your major malfunction with this restoration project anyway Marcus? If you have no interest in it why bother posting. As for a long wait... big deal. Its a group of fans working on the project in their spare time. I'll be happy if it ever sees the light of day and doesn't end up like a large percentage of mod projects and gets shelved.

 

If there is anything to get angry at its Lucasarts/Obsidian for the rush job/leaving in cut scenes that made 0 sense. A cut scene with GOTO threatening Bao-Dur's droid with NO resolution... huh? A hacked ending that makes you feel like you missed major plot points... lame. A group of fans willing to spend 4+ years working on implementing content that should have been in the first place... go for it and good luck.

[H]

Link, H

[Darth Wynn]

Is this what you're looking for?

 

TSL's trimmed deadline and subsequent cut content has made the game highly criticized. (Yes, you probably did know that. ) What would you have done if you'd had those extra few months to work on it? Or if you'd had, through some mysterious and unknown means, unlimited time and funds?

 

What I would have done was finish Malachor V and Revan

[Rycal]

i can't belive how much progress team gizka has made in only 4 years!

 

this is gonna be the best mod ever i think, i never finished the game coz i heard they were working on this great mod, now my game cd is long gone and i can't remember what the f**k KOTOR2 was all about (something about the force?) but still, it's gonne be great when this mod finally hits the internet

Um... I'm following the mod with enthusiasm too... but "only" 4 years? You realize the released game was created in half that time right?

1/4th the time. It only took 12 months to create "The Sith Lords". Its taking Team-Gizka four times as long to make a mod, and they are still going for another year.

 

 

Can we cut the crap now please?

 

1: LucasArts forced Obsidian's hand by pushing them to rush the game before the x-mas sales.

2: With that happening, Obsidian most likely had to patch the game up as well as they could so that it could be fit for a release. That said - a lot of things naturally had to be cut, but Obsidian did themselves and the modding community a favour by not deleting the lost content but keeping it in the gamefiles on the CD(s)/DVD.

3: What can Team Gizka do?

 

Well let's take an example. You see a house in front of you - it looks like it's not completed but still a house that's barely holding up the roof. You come now as a modder and want to remake the house. You get the blueprints with a few notes on that make little to no sense and you have only your skills and the makes-no-sense-blueprints to aid you in your endeavour. You don't know what will happen if you pull one brick and not the other. Will the house fall apart? Will it cause more trouble and so on?

 

Note now that this modding is your freetime, something you're not getting paid for and yes - some people actually do have to make a living. It's easy to be a smartass saying "4 years is waaaay too much" when you're living at home with your parents

 

 

 

I'm not saying that Team Gizka shouldn't speed things up - but quite frankly if people don't like waiting, then don't. Nobody's forcing you to see how they're doing. I salute them for even trying to do something of this magnitude.

[Marcus]

...

 

1: LucasArts forced Obsidian's hand by pushing them to rush the game before the x-mas sales.

2: With that happening, Obsidian most likely had to patch the game up as well as they could so that it could be fit for a release. That said - a lot of things naturally had to be cut, but Obsidian did themselves and the modding community a favour by not deleting the lost content but keeping it in the gamefiles on the CD(s)/DVD.

3: What can Team Gizka do?

Before we stretch this subject thin, I want to make one thing clear. You can check magazine articles and online articles, and you will not find a single comment by Lucas Arts about The Sith Lord's condition. Your first comment is an opinion. Obsidian mentioned the Lucas Art's change in time, they (Obsidian) fully admit it was their fault in agreeing with it. Your second comment is also an opinion. Since you didn't work on the game itself, you cannot comment on what happened behind close doors. We do not have enough information to support or rebuttle your comment. Also, how do you know if those files were accidently left behind, or if they were intentionally left behind. You can not prove a darn thing.

 

What can Team-Gizka do? Here is a question in return. What should they have done? Four years of a massive online campaign to promote this mod, and they expect people to roll over to the tune of WHEN ITS DONE!. After all these years of people looking forward to this mod, Team-Gizka, knowing people were waiting, took almost a year's hiatus. People strolled into the forums here looking for some transparency, and then they get told to stop whynning? After all these years of people waiting, they now owe us for the continued criticism and support. Its no longer a mod where nothing is on the line. This project rests on their reputation, and if they will deliver on a publicaly made promise.

 

Stop criticism? Tough.

[Darth Mortis]

Before we stretch this subject thin, I want to make one thing clear. You can check magazine articles and online articles, and you will not find a single comment by Lucas Arts about The Sith Lord's condition.

 

Of course not. No business will admit to releasing a product that is flawed, unfinished or anything but perfect.

 

how do you know if those files were accidently left behind, or if they were intentionally left behind. You can not prove a darn thing.

 

You don't keep unneeded files on disks.

 

Here is a question in return. What should they have done? Four years of a massive online campaign to promote this mod,

 

As far as I'm aware the team have not 'promoted' the mod, Nor have they run a 'Massive online campaign' in any shape or form. They simply said they were doing it and answered questions about what it will contain as and when they have been asked.

 

they expect people to roll over to the tune of WHEN ITS DONE!.

 

? What in blazes are you babbling about?

 

After all these years of people looking forward to this mod, Team-Gizka, knowing people were waiting, took almost a year's hiatus.

 

You mean the people who were doing the mod in their free time and without being paid appeared not to be doing any work?

 

What were they thinking? They should have quit their jobs, given up college, moved back in with their parents and locked themselves in their room until this was done! How dare they have lives when they should have been finishing a job no-one asked them to do and for which they will not see any money.

 

People strolled into the forums here looking for some transparency, and then they get told to stop whynning?

 

Starting with 'I'm no going to download this mod' is not a good way to convince people you are looking for answers.

 

After all these years of people waiting, they now owe us for the continued criticism and support.

 

They owe people nothing.

 

Its no longer a mod where nothing is on the line. This project rests on their reputation, and if they will deliver on a publicaly made promise.

 

Errm. No. They have never promised more than that the mod will be ready when its ready.

 

 

You make outrageous claims to being able to produce or reproduce this mod in a matter of weeks or months, while showing no understanding as to how modding works or how long it takes on this scale.

 

You say that you will not be downloading the mod, and yet talk as if the team somehow owe you or other people something.

 

You have been told countless times that this mod is being done in peoples spare time, and that they will (and legally can't) get any money from this. Yet you still insist on talking about what they have done and should have done as if this were a fully paid team of experts with full access to the coding.

 

Sorry, but since you clearly don't seem able to grasp the basic ideas here and have admitted to not being interested in downloading the mod you have no right or place to comment on how it is progressing.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Hello, DM - welcome back!

[DAWUSS]

Wow, people are still bickering about this project? I've lost interest in this a long time ago.

[Darth Mortis]

Hello, DM - welcome back!

 

Thank you...I'm just astonished anyone remembers me.

[Marcus]

Wow, people are still bickering about this project? I've lost interest in this a long time ago.

It is more than likely better to walk than keep them circulating. I am going to follow your example and start stepping. Its time for me to walk away. Team-Gizka is not worth the wait and aggrivation. The Restoration project will never be released. Better things to do. Chow!

Edited December 26, 2008 by Marcus

[Guest The Architect]

Hello, DM - welcome back!

 

Thank you...I'm just astonished anyone remembers me.

 

Wait, who the hell are you?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Hello, DM - welcome back!

 

Thank you...I'm just astonished anyone remembers me.

 

I remember you too!

[Rycal]

...

 

1: LucasArts forced Obsidian's hand by pushing them to rush the game before the x-mas sales.

2: With that happening, Obsidian most likely had to patch the game up as well as they could so that it could be fit for a release. That said - a lot of things naturally had to be cut, but Obsidian did themselves and the modding community a favour by not deleting the lost content but keeping it in the gamefiles on the CD(s)/DVD.

3: What can Team Gizka do?

Before we stretch this subject thin, I want to make one thing clear. You can check magazine articles and online articles, and you will not find a single comment by Lucas Arts about The Sith Lord's condition. Your first comment is an opinion. Obsidian mentioned the Lucas Art's change in time, they (Obsidian) fully admit it was their fault in agreeing with it. Your second comment is also an opinion. Since you didn't work on the game itself, you cannot comment on what happened behind close doors. We do not have enough information to support or rebuttle your comment. Also, how do you know if those files were accidently left behind, or if they were intentionally left behind. You can not prove a darn thing.

 

What can Team-Gizka do? Here is a question in return. What should they have done? Four years of a massive online campaign to promote this mod, and they expect people to roll over to the tune of WHEN ITS DONE!. After all these years of people looking forward to this mod, Team-Gizka, knowing people were waiting, took almost a year's hiatus. People strolled into the forums here looking for some transparency, and then they get told to stop whynning? After all these years of people waiting, they now owe us for the continued criticism and support. Its no longer a mod where nothing is on the line. This project rests on their reputation, and if they will deliver on a publicaly made promise.

 

Stop criticism? Tough.

 

Did I say anywhere there that I was stating facts and not opinions?

 

And yes, since this is a project of their own free will that can be aborted at any time - They don't have to expect jack out of the gamer/public opinion and say "Done when it's done"

 

You say that you will not be downloading the mod, and yet talk as if the team somehow owe you or other people something.

 

You have been told countless times that this mod is being done in peoples spare time, and that they will (and legally can't) get any money from this. Yet you still insist on talking about what they have done and should have done as if this were a fully paid team of experts with full access to the coding.

 

Sorry, but since you clearly don't seem able to grasp the basic ideas here and have admitted to not being interested in downloading the mod you have no right or place to comment on how it is progressing.

 

Amen

Edited December 27, 2008 by Rycal

[ima_awesome]

right

i'm new to all this, please bear with me

the link on team gizka's homepage (http://www.team-gizka.org/), the one that leads to deleted scripts and restored soundclips is dead, is there anywhere else i can view/listen to this?

also, how have so many people (who don't appear to be beta testers) played the TSLRP when it hasn't been publicly released?

furthermore, would this mod work on vista?

[Gorth]

right

i'm new to all this, please bear with me

the link on team gizka's homepage (http://www.team-gizka.org/), the one that leads to deleted scripts and restored soundclips is dead, is there anywhere else i can view/listen to this?

also, how have so many people (who don't appear to be beta testers) played the TSLRP when it hasn't been publicly released?

furthermore, would this mod work on vista?

I can't help you with the first question (you may have to ask on the TG forums), but to the second question: Some "tester" leaked the unfinished mod so it ended up on the internet and the third question: I don't *think* it changes anything, since they are not modifying and of the game engine code, only the assets. If your game already works, it is likely to continue working on Vista and vice versa.

 

Oh, and welcome

[Heart of the Guardian]

COME ON. HURRY UP AND FINISH IT TEAM GIZKA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are all SO bored

Edited January 2, 2009 by Pidesco
I think it's clear...

[Meshugger]

Once, i used big fonts at a forum. The moderator was pleased, and the administrator was astonished by my resolve. Everything worked out fine and we all got what we wanted.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Meshugger

[refuse]

<generic impatient message>

[Meshugger]

Ok, time for some critique here:

 

Of course not. No business will admit to releasing a product that is flawed, unfinished or anything but perfect.

 

Agreed.

 

You don't keep unneeded files on disks.

 

On the contrary, many products in the software industry are filled with redudant legacy data, since resources are usually better spent on other things. To this day, finding a software installation that hasn't some kind of old and unnecessary data may be a challenge.

 

As far as I'm aware the team have not 'promoted' the mod, Nor have they run a 'Massive online campaign' in any shape or form. They simply said they were doing it and answered questions about what it will contain as and when they have been asked.

 

Which means that they were aware that there was a public interest and responded to that. Claiming otherwise is folly.

 

You mean the people who were doing the mod in their free time and without being paid appeared not to be doing any work?

 

What were they thinking? They should have quit their jobs, given up college, moved back in with their parents and locked themselves in their room until this was done! How dare they have lives when they should have been finishing a job no-one asked them to do and for which they will not see any money.

 

That is just fatalist mentality. Either you are committed or not. Since when is college, work and family a hindrance for something that you work with a great passion spend all your free time on? Or are you claiming othwerwise? That Team-Gizka are working on their mod after their free time, hobbies, other modding projects, WoW and whatnot? That just implies that they are not committed enough, lazy and just lost interest.

 

So, how committed to this project are they really? Since November, only one person has shown some progress: Tupac Amaru. A great majority of the rest of the bugs haven't even been assigned to anyone, impyling that noone has the 'time' to do it. Even the closed beta-testers haven't reported anything. Admitting lost of interest is the best way for transparency.

 

This "WHEN IT IS DONE!"-mantra is so counterproductive that it isn't even funny. In larger project as this, strong leadership is required with a thought-out structure and having internal deadlines that are checked in an regular manner (daily/weekly/monthly). If people slack of and don't report, disciplinary actions are required or they are thrown out of the project. Wasn't Dashus gone because of personal issues for several months, consequently putting the project at halt? The correct (or at least better) action would have been to find a replacement temporarily, or to find a new buildmanager entirely. Finding committed people is not that hard really, unless there's little interest in finding one in the first place.

 

Letting everyone work on the mod whenever they feel like it is the result of this: progress becoming exceptionally slow. Again, admitting failure is the first step of progression. Faults can be corrected, mistakes can be learned.

 

The best advice that i can give you is to assign a project-manager that is committed enough to demand results, and not to be afraid to replace people whenever it is necessary.

 

Starting with 'I'm no going to download this mod' is not a good way to convince people you are looking for answers?

 

Whining about whining people makes you look like a bigger whiner than the whiners themselves. By acting professionally and in a sincere manner, most of these ad hominems wouldn't even be an issue.

 

They owe people nothing.

 

Of course not. But consequently, nor should you care about what people say. Why even defend it?

 

Errm. No. They have never promised more than that the mod will be ready when its ready.

 

Again, a very bad decision. Look at GMail and so on, all public betas *hint* *hint*. Hell, even microsoft are issuing open betas for those that sign up. Look at Sourceforge and alike, why not Team-Gizka? why not?

 

You make outrageous claims to being able to produce or reproduce this mod in a matter of weeks or months, while showing no understanding as to how modding works or how long it takes on this scale.

 

You say that you will not be downloading the mod, and yet talk as if the team somehow owe you or other people something.

 

You have been told countless times that this mod is being done in peoples spare time, and that they will (and legally can't) get any money from this. Yet you still insist on talking about what they have done and should have done as if this were a fully paid team of experts with full access to the coding.

 

Sorry, but since you clearly don't seem able to grasp the basic ideas here and have admitted to not being interested in downloading the mod you have no right or place to comment on how it is progressing.

 

Again, just act professionally and answer calmly and move on. I suggest that you concentrate your creative energies on something more productive, like getting more involved with the project

[H]

You don't keep unneeded files on disks.

 

On the contrary, many products in the software industry are filled with redudant legacy data, since resources are usually better spent on other things. To this day, finding a software installation that hasn't some kind of old and unnecessary data may be a challenge.

Another problem is that removing something from the data files may cause unexpected bugs to pop up.

[Miltiades]

So, how committed to this project are they really? Since November, only one person has shown some progress: Tupac Amaru. A great majority of the rest of the bugs haven't even been assigned to anyone, impyling that noone has the 'time' to do it. Even the closed beta-testers haven't reported anything. Admitting lost of interest is the best way for transparency.

Heh, well, that's not exactly true. Mantis is somehow a bit... broken. Reporting bugs is for the moment impossible. I tried. And apparently, assigning them is out of the question, too. It's a job for killerbob, I think, but she hasn't gotten around to fixing it. I guess you can view that as an excuse. By any means, do. We Beta-testers know where we stand, the public will know soon as well.

[Meshugger]

So, how committed to this project are they really? Since November, only one person has shown some progress: Tupac Amaru. A great majority of the rest of the bugs haven't even been assigned to anyone, impyling that noone has the 'time' to do it. Even the closed beta-testers haven't reported anything. Admitting lost of interest is the best way for transparency.

Heh, well, that's not exactly true. Mantis is somehow a bit... broken. Reporting bugs is for the moment impossible. I tried. And apparently, assigning them is out of the question, too. It's a job for killerbob, I think, but she hasn't gotten around to fixing it. I guess you can view that as an excuse. By any means, do. We Beta-testers know where we stand, the public will know soon as well.

 

Thank you, at least one issue is cleared up.

[Rycal]

We Beta-testers know where we stand, the public will know soon as well.

 

Meaning? Are you teasing us Milti?

 

I like being teased (just realized this can be interpreted in a seriously ...WRONG way. Well, It's not wrong, I don't mind it but..ahem..I think I'm not helping myself here )

 

At any rate, would be nice to see a progress report update.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Rycal

[Knights&Darths]

So what's the latest stuff they've come out with? I mean pictures, trailers

[refuse]

Apart from the leaked beta last year, there's not much to talk about, just some promises made that this will get released some day in the future and the understanding that their team leader (understandably) has more pressing matters to attend to in real life. Other than that, nothing's changed effectively, no updates, videos, pictures or anything in over a year. happy waiting.