TSL Restoration Project: The Phantom Deadline, READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING.

[Darth_Windu]

Yeah I don't think that's actually possible. It would be great, but unfortunately like with every mod you'll need the PC version.

[Jediphile]

An Xbox TSLRP patch was in the plans for a long time, but was eventually dropped by Team Gizka. So it's either possible but too troublesome or the requirements involved deemed so demanding that the project was not feasible, I'd suspect.

[Hassat Hunter]

It required a modded X-box, which is illegal in some places (and thus could be enough for LA to shut down the project).

 

@ H

[H]

@ H

[Hassat Hunter]

Ah, I thought you were talking about releasing it now and then forgetting about it. But yeah, open beta doesn't sound too bad to me (hence I downloaded the leaked one).

[Marcus]

Team-Gizka pretty much hijacked this title by making people think that the cut content is essential, and they are the only modding group in the world whom could save the day

How about the next time you post, you don't do so out of ignorance?

 

TG NEVER big-noted themselves, never forced people to find out about the cut content, never forced people to get excited about the mod. They are doing what they are doing because they want to - nothing more, nothing less. This is a giant project that no-one else has even attempted, let alone getting as far as TG has.

 

Frankly if you want to have a go at people for doing what they like for the simple reason that YOU have some issue with others being more popular than you, then go right ahead. I on the other hand have a great deal of respect for TG for taking on the project and delivering (at least soon) a product that will provide for a complete TSL experience, an experience that OE wanted to give us but were prevented from doing so by LA.

Cry me a river. Team-Gizka are not that special. Obsidian wanted fans to enjoy "The Sith Lords" as it was released. People began complaining about the game, and then Obsidian allowed people to modify the missing content. Pfft. Edited November 12, 2008 by Marcus

[Hassat Hunter]

]Obsidian wanted fans to enjoy "The Sith Lords" as it was released.

 

You serious? You really think OE was all "Oh hey, the HK factory is one week from being finished... LET'S NOT AND RELEASE IT NOW." Do you think they would want to have it such a bugfest as it is?

If so please explain me why OE desperately tried to convince LA to have them release a CONTENT PATCH. I mean; if they are perfectly happy with the result; why ask to add more stuff to it. Oh, and call it a patch?

[Markus Ramikin]

Yeah. The "cry me a river" angle is dumb enough as it is - when you even don't have a clue what you're talking about, it makes you look even worse.

[racofer]

Team-Gizka pretty much hijacked this title by making people think that the cut content is essential, and they are the only modding group in the world whom could save the day

 

TG NEVER big-noted themselves, never forced people to find out about the cut content, never forced people to get excited about the mod.

 

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Marcus]

So, what about that website? What about the forums? What about the gamesite interviews? What about the various threads in multiple game forums? Nope, Team-Gizka is not big headed.

 

Calling someone big-headed has nothing to do with forcing people into anything. It has to do with big egos.

 

Team-Gizka, "We are the saviors of The Sith Lords".

 

Knights of the Old Republic 2, we feel, is a fantastic game. It's also undoubtedly a wounded game: a lonely game that knows it's incomplete as it is but just can't bear to admit it to itself. It's okay, KOTOR2. We're here for you. Shhhh. We're here.

 

Team-Gizka, "We're here for yeah. We will save you!"

 

Messiah complex?

 

"The Sith Lords" is just fine the way it is, and no one should hijack a game title to get famous.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Marcus

[samm]

Shove off, please, you're being annoying. If you don't care, go don't caring on your own. No need to hijack this thread - make your own: "Why TG are unimportant" or something like that, so neither I nor other people who are looking forward to a release of TG's mod must bother reading your posts. Thanks.

 

racofer: Yeah, god save your h and a keys.

[H]

Last time I checked this thread wasn't called "The official TG fan club: No criticism allowed".

Edited November 13, 2008 by H

[Hassat Hunter]

"The Sith Lords" is just fine the way it is, and no one should hijack a game title to get famous.

 

HAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHHAAH

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Knights&Darths]

Have they become famous? I guess the team name has, but I never noticed too much fuss about it. The mod is something a lot of people are waiting for, it's only natural that there's a forum, some threads here and there, some youtube videos, some interest from Obsidian and some mentions on Wookieepedia. But there's to be no mistake about the fact that the game is not "just fine" the way it is, it's unfinished. It officially became unfinished the moment they made canon the cut content stuff: M4-78, the HK factory, the HK-51 units led on Malachor by their progenitor and their confrontation with G0-T0, the Handmaiden traveling with the Exile

[Darth_Windu]

So, what about that website? What about the forums? What about the gamesite interviews? What about the various threads in multiple game forums? Nope, Team-Gizka is not big headed.

 

Knights of the Old Republic 2, we feel, is a fantastic game. It's also undoubtedly a wounded game: a lonely game that knows it's incomplete as it is but just can't bear to admit it to itself. It's okay, KOTOR2. We're here for you. Shhhh. We're here.

 

"The Sith Lords" is just fine the way it is, and no one should hijack a game title to get famous.

I see - so everyone that has a website has a massive ego then? Heaven forbid they make a website to, gosh I don't know, inform people about something they might be interested in? I don't see you going around attacking every mod WIP forum thread ever created, so why the TG-hate I wonder?

 

Oh as for the 'messiah complex' - I agree, I HATE it when people use humour to get their point across, people need to be far more serious in todays world. Down with humour!

 

Now personally, I couldn't disagree more that TSL is fine as it is. It's rushed and unfinished - quite blatantly so. Hell even OE admits that TSL is incomplete. Avellone has said it before, and OE even tried to get a content patch. It seems then that you're the only one who thinks TSL is okay as it stands.

 

[quote name='H

[Marcus]

I see - so everyone that has a website has a massive ego then? Heaven forbid they make a website to, gosh I don't know, inform people about something they might be interested in? I don't see you going around attacking every mod WIP forum thread ever created, so why the TG-hate I wonder?

So, you're oky with hijacking someone's hardwork to gain notability? I don't hate Team-Gizka for being modders, but I do have a problem with them hijacking someone's property. Obsidian and Lucas Arts have granted fans with the rights to modify game elements, but did they give us a right to become famous for it? You focused only on their website, but you are only narrowing on a small piece.

 

Example ::

You create a website of your own, and someone else comes around and take's your images (or work). They say, "These look unfinished, so we are going to fix them." They end up opening a website, several forum threads, take some interviews, and then open a forum of their own. They even create a logo that will now be placed on your images, and they make video clips of the work they are doing. All the hard work you put into those pictures is being hijack by another person. Suddenly, when people say, "Darth Windu's pictures", the first thing that comes to mind is, "That guy who is finishing them". Your name has become hijacked by another individual, and they are getting famous for your hardwork. Yes, you may let people do modifications, but do you really want them to become famous for your work? People will be talking about how Darth Windu didn't finish his images, and how great the second party is for finishing them. Does that seem right to you?

 

If you can answer 'yes' to the above, there is something seriously wrong.

 

Small modifications are pretty respectable, but Team-Gizka's level of modifications and notibility is wrong. Obsidian is a great hardworking company, and they should be asking themselves, "Do we really want people to hijack our client's product, so they can become famous for something that doesn't belong to them? Are we in a position to allow this type of hijacking to continue, and to allow them the freedom to get famous off of our client's product?"

 

Right at this very moment, this thread is sending a message. People may not like it, but it is sending a clear message. You go to school for game designing, you get a degree in game designing, you work for our company, so that fans can hijack your work to get famous off of it. That bites! Why would I want to work for a company who would allow outsiders to gain prestege off of my education and work. I put long hours and money into gaining an education, to look for a job, to work on a game, so that someone like Team-Gizka can get famous off of my work. That blows. Why in the world would I want to work for a company that allows Team-Gizka's level of modifications and notibility? Obsidian is becoming established under their new name, but their first game as one company has become hijacked by Team-Gizka. That stinks.

 

Before anyone races to defend them, I want you to thinks about your replay for a minute. Reread this post carefully. How would you feel if it happened to you?

Edited November 14, 2008 by Marcus

[darksamus]

Small modifications are pretty respectable, but Team-Gizka's level of modifications and notibility is wrong. Obsidian is a great hardworking company, and they should be asking themselves, "Do we really want people to hijack our client's product, so they can become famous for something that doesn't belong to them? Are we in a position to allow this type of hijacking to continue, and to allow them the freedom to get famous off of our client's product?"

 

Right at this very moment, this thread is sending a message. People may not like it, but it is sending a clear message. You go to school for game designing, you get a degree in game designing, you work for our company, so that fans can hijack your work to get famous off of it. That bites! Why would I want to work for a company who would allow outsiders to gain prestege off of my education and work. I put long hours and money into gaining an education, to look for a job, to work on a game, so that someone like Team-Gizka can get famous off of my work. That blows. Why in the world would I want to work for a company that allows Team-Gizka's level of modifications and notibility? Obsidian is becoming established under their new name, but their first game as one company has become hijacked by Team-Gizka. That stinks.

Sure, it hurts the pride of the folks at Obsidian, both the company and the individuals that work for them. I personally wouldn't be too happy if I were in the same situation. Having said that, so what if Team-Gizka is famous? Obsidian can put it's hurt pride to the side knowing that even though they are not generating any new ways to make money off of the game, Team-Gizka is free publicity enough to posssibly increase KOTOR2 sales. To top that off, Team-Gizka isn't even depriving Obsidian of any profits, much less TG profiting for themselves.

I'm not deriding your statements, though. They are still valid, I just thought I would toss in my two cents.

[Marcus]

Sure, it hurts the pride of the folks at Obsidian, both the company and the individuals that work for them. I personally wouldn't be too happy if I were in the same situation. Having said that, so what if Team-Gizka is famous? Obsidian can put it's hurt pride to the side knowing that even though they are not generating any new ways to make money off of the game, Team-Gizka is free publicity enough to posssibly increase KOTOR2 sales. To top that off, Team-Gizka isn't even depriving Obsidian of any profits, much less TG profiting for themselves.

I'm not deriding your statements, though. They are still valid, I just thought I would toss in my two cents.

This has nothing to do with pride. It has to do with someone hijacking from someone else's name and work. It becomes a question of principle. What type of limitations should modders be held responsible for, and to what extent are they allowed to profit from being noticed. We have a modyfing group that has; a. opened threads on multiple game forum boards, b. opened a website towards pushing their efforts, c. created video clips to advertise their work, d. created a logo that will sit next to Obsidians' and Lucas Art's logos, e. altered extensive files way beyond 10% of the game, and f. partaken in gamesite interviews. They should have said, "Stop! Slow down people." They did not stop themselves, nor did they practice any type of restraint. They became big headed and allowed things to become large scale. They are not being responsible.

 

People think "The Sith Lords" and the first things that comes to mind is "Team-Gizka". That is hijacking. Its no longer a Obsidian and Lucas Arts game. "The Sith Lords" is a Obsidian, Lucas Arts, and Team-Gizka game. They are getting famous off of someone else.

 

Another set of questions ::

How much of the game are modders allowed to change without it getting out of hand?

What is Obsidian doing to protect the integrity of their developers and artists?

How do they prevent large scale third parties from hijacking their titles?

What are they doing public to secure the products that belong to their clients, so that another group cannot get famous off of their client's work?

Edited November 14, 2008 by Marcus

[samm]

(...)hijacking someone's hardwork to gain notability?

(...) hijacking someone's property.

(...) to become famous for it

(...) hijack by another person

(...) become hijacked by another

(...) they are getting famous for your hardwork.

(...) to become famous for your work

(...) Team-Gizka's level of modifications and notibility is wrong.

(...) hijack our client's product, so they can become famous for something that doesn't belong to them?

(...) hijacking

(...) to get famous

(...) so that fans can hijack your work to get famous off of it.

(...) outsiders to gain prestege off of my education and work

(...) so that someone like Team-Gizka can get famous off of my work.

(...) Why in the world would I want to work for a company that allows Team-Gizka's level of modifications and notibility?

(...) has become hijacked by Team-Gizka.

 

Reread this post carefully. How would you feel if it happened to you?

What you do is accusating a team of modders of hijacking. You suggest, no: explicitly state they are doing a criminal act. You also suggest, no: explicitly state that the do this as a means to the end of becoming famous.

So to answer the final question in your post: If someone in a criminal act would bring themselves into property of my work and if this someone would do it to become famous - yes, I'd be angered and I'd be in the position to report this person to the jurisdiction. This, however, is in no shape or way the case with KOTOR2 and TG. As a consequence, I'm doing the same to you now for severe accusation of a non present party without factual evidence.

[Hassat Hunter]

And Half-Life is indestinguisably linked to Counterstrike. Did Valve sue their @ss off? Nope; wait... they hired the guys. Odd for such a fame-rippers. I mean clearly no-one remembered the original game, right, right?

 

Modders fix stuff designers break. Gothic 3, Oblivion, Arcanium, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Wesp5 is becoming quite the famous person modifying Troika's work.

What seperates TG from all these guys? Please tell me, aside from TSL being more clearly broken then these games...

[SteveThaiBinh]

I'm a bit worried about the atmosphere in this thread. Let's all calm down and make sure we're not just throwing accusations around. This is Obsidian's forum and we can't allow discussions here that might reflect badly on Obsidian's good name.

 

On a few specific points:

People think "The Sith Lords" and the first things that comes to mind is "Team-Gizka".

I think that's going a bit far. A lot far, actually. Obsidian made TSL, LucasArts published it. TSLRP is just a mod, and lots of games have mods.

How much of the game are modders allowed to change without it getting out of hand?

I believe this is the publisher's decision. LucasArts could close Team Gizka down with a letter if they chose to do so (I believe this has happened with other mods for other games). On the other hand, most publishers and developers see modders as a good thing - they work for free, they enhance the gaming experience of the publisher's customers. Look at Bethesda and Oblivion - the OOO mod, for example, was described as an 'overhaul', but Bethesda was happy for it to be discussed and promoted on its forums, because it gave players more options and more ways of enjoying Bethesda's game. There are no losers here.

What is Obsidian doing to protect the integrity of their developers and artists?

The integrity of Obsidian developers and artists is unassailable.

[Marcus]

And Half-Life is indestinguisably linked to Counterstrike. Did Valve sue their @ss off? Nope; wait... they hired the guys. Odd for such a fame-rippers. I mean clearly no-one remembered the original game, right, right?

 

Modders fix stuff designers break. Gothic 3, Oblivion, Arcanium, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Wesp5 is becoming quite the famous person modifying Troika's work.

What seperates TG from all these guys? Please tell me, aside from TSL being more clearly broken then these games...

What you are basically saying is, "Oh my god! Obsidian keeps selling broken games, and I keep buying them knowing they are broken. Save us Team-Gizka! Save us!" If you personally believe that Obsidian makes broken games (and you keep buying them), you have no one else except for yourself to blame. That would also mean that "Team-Gizka" exists as a form of punishment impossed by the community onto Obsidian. I would close this thread down rather quickly, for it would be considered a "Sith Lords" bashing thread.

 

What you do is accusating a team of modders of hijacking. You suggest, no: explicitly state they are doing a criminal act. You also suggest, no: explicitly state that the do this as a means to the end of becoming famous. So to answer the final question in your post: If someone in a criminal act would bring themselves into property of my work and if this someone would do it to become famous - yes, I'd be angered and I'd be in the position to report this person to the jurisdiction. This, however, is in no shape or way the case with KOTOR2 and TG. As a consequence, I'm doing the same to you now for severe accusation of a non present party without factual evidence.

I have no idea what you just said. I'm not blaming them of a criminal act, but more of acting in a illresponsible manner. They allow themselves to become big headed, and to hijack another person's hardwork.

 

Sorry Mr. Moderator. I didn't see your post while replying. I had the advanced reply screen up. I will keep things cooled down on my behalf.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Marcus

[Hassat Hunter]

What you are basically saying is, "Oh my god! Obsidian keeps selling broken games, and I keep buying them knowing they are broken. Save us Team-Gizka! Save us!" If you personally believe that Obsidian makes broken games (and you keep buying them), you have no one else except for yourself to blame. That would also mean that "Team-Gizka" exists as a form of punishment impossed by the community onto Obsidian. I would close this thread down rather quickly, for it would be considered a "Sith Lords" bashing thread.

In that rant I failed to report the reason why there is a difference between TG and fixpacks created for ALL recent RPG's (like Vampire: Bloodlines, Arcanum, Oblivion, Gothic III and who knows what else)...

 

You put words in my mouth. I am not saying OE keeps releasing broken games, I just say TSL is a broken game. No-where in my response did I mention about a lack of quality in other OE titles (being NWN2).

[Theseus]

Ive been visiting the TG site every now and then. The problems have gone up but no problems have been solved.

 

Theres a difference between being patience when progress is happening and being patient when regression is happening.

 

Get your asses working TG or give your work to someone else. If you were not going to finish it in a timely fashion you should have let someone else take it over.

[Darth_Windu]

So hang on - TG is being criticised for doing the work at all, now they're being criticised for doing it too slowly???

 

Anyway Marcus you really have your nose out of joint for no reason. For example

 

EU Cantina: How satisfied are you now with KOTOR II, considering all the things that were left out of it?

 

Chris Avellone: Not terribly satisfied, mostly because I can see what was supposed to go into it vs. what made it in. I thought the ending (which was my fault) could have been much stronger if I

Edited November 15, 2008 by Darth_Windu