Stealth in Alpha Protocool

[Stealthguy1986]

I just wanted to know whether it is possible to finish the whole game without killing or incapitiating any of the enemies? It would be really cool if the dev adds this as a possibility for the stealthy players.

[Humodour]

It'd be cool not because it think it's a particularly interesting playstyle personally (I love stealth, but some ****ers just deserve lead poisoning), but because it would be a strong indication of the game's scope and non-linearity.

[random n00b]

Considering that not even DX could be completed without killing *anyone*, I'd say it's not likely.

[SirPetrakus]

I remember way back when I used to play Thief, tat game where you didn't have to kill anybody but the final boss. Sometimes killing a guard would help, but it never was really necessary. This is my idea of a stealth game. Not saying they should make it like Thief, just saying that if you could play it that way if you wanted would be awesome!

[Stealthguy1986]

Yeah getting to kill 1 0r 2 people would be fine but still it should be upto the players to decide whether too kill them or not.

[Humodour]

Considering that not even DX could be completed without killing *anyone*, I'd say it's not likely.

 

From memory everyone was avoidable. I'm pretty sure last playthrough I just ran from Walton Simons at the final Area 51 confrontation

 

I'm not counting baton/crossbow/prod as killing, but I suppose blowing up Bob Page as the ending sequence sort of counts... although that doesn't happen if you merge with Helios right?

 

It'd be hard I imagine since you can't knock out commandos, but I've avoided them plenty of times before in a normal game. It helps that people give up their search if you hide after causing a scene.

 

I remember once spending quite a while trying to take out Gunther at battery park. I had taken out all the MJ12, then I took out all his bots and men, but he just wouldn't die. I kind of figured he was invincible after the 6th rocket I shot directly at his head. It was weird having to just stand there and die to progress the game, though. I'd call it bad design but I've never heard anybody complain they dumped the game because of it, and I can't think of a better way to emulate 'game over'/capture (similar thing with the start of NOLF2) without giving the entire thing away prematurely. It was good to be given a choice of approach even in forced failure though - it made it less noticable.

[Hell Kitty]

When it comes to incapacitating enemies, I prefer something like the MGS series where unconscious enemies would eventually be revived (by time or allies), rather than something like Thief where unconscious enemies were considered dead by all NPCs. Also hiding bodies in containers of some kind like in MGS or Hitman. Also destroying communication devices like in MGS.

 

Of course I don't expect any of this, but it'd be nice.

[random n00b]

From memory everyone was avoidable. I'm pretty sure last playthrough I just ran from Walton Simons at the final Area 51 confrontation

Technically, you can complete the game without killing anyone, but not by design. Doing so involves metagaming, too. And in all three cases (Navarre, Hermann and Simons) it involves exploiting the AI to some degree. With Hermann and Simons, the script doesn't make explicit references if you don't kill them (IIRC) but with Navarre, she is officially dead even if you run away.

 

Spector himself said he was disappointed with this aspect of the game...

 

 

I remember once spending quite a while trying to take out Gunther at battery park. I had taken out all the MJ12, then I took out all his bots and men, but he just wouldn't die. I kind of figured he was invincible after the 6th rocket I shot directly at his head. It was weird having to just stand there and die to progress the game, though. I'd call it bad design but I've never heard anybody complain they dumped the game because of it, and I can't think of a better way to emulate 'game over'/capture (similar thing with the start of NOLF2) without giving the entire thing away prematurely. It was good to be given a choice of approach even in forced failure though - it made it less noticable.

I didn't like that. It seemed too lazy a way to have the story progress by presenting an illusion of choice that was all too easily dispelled.

[Wrath of Dagon]

DX IW you could complete without touching anyone, it would be really hard though.

[Bos_hybrid]

I don't think AP needs to have it where you must use stealth or that you can get through the game without killing anyone, as long as it made as a viable and fun element of the game, which doesn't require the AI to be terminally stupid to be implemented, I'll be happy. However no disposing of bodies makes me think this is unlikely.

 

DX IW you could complete without touching anyone, it would be really hard though.

 

Best not to mention that game here, like everywhere else it usually causes rants.

[random n00b]

Yes, we take our right to be rabid quite seriously, you see.

[Slowtrain]

How does one get out of the Unatco facility without killing Anna?

 

Edit: Or at least without her being dead. I used to kill her in the plane sometimes. But either way dead is dead.

Edited July 9, 2008 by CrashGirl

[Wrath of Dagon]

How does one get out of the Unatco facility without killing Anna?

 

Edit: Or at least without her being dead. I used to kill her in the plane sometimes. But either way dead is dead.

Is that in IW or the original?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Best not to mention that game here, like everywhere else it usually causes rants.

Heh, heh, that's why I do it.

[Slowtrain]

How does one get out of the Unatco facility without killing Anna?

 

Edit: Or at least without her being dead. I used to kill her in the plane sometimes. But either way dead is dead.

Is that in IW or the original?

 

There's no UNATCO or Anna in IW.

[Wrath of Dagon]

That's why I was confused, I thought you meant it as a counter-argument to what I said about not having to kill anyone in IW.

[Slowtrain]

That's why I was confused, I thought you meant it as a counter-argument to what I said about not having to kill anyone in IW.

 

 

No, I was just curious how you can get past the locked doors of the UNATCO hq if Anna is still alive at that point of the game. I didn't realize you could and I'm interested in knowing what the method was.

[Humodour]

I remember once spending quite a while trying to take out Gunther at battery park. I had taken out all the MJ12, then I took out all his bots and men, but he just wouldn't die. I kind of figured he was invincible after the 6th rocket I shot directly at his head. It was weird having to just stand there and die to progress the game, though. I'd call it bad design but I've never heard anybody complain they dumped the game because of it, and I can't think of a better way to emulate 'game over'/capture (similar thing with the start of NOLF2) without giving the entire thing away prematurely. It was good to be given a choice of approach even in forced failure though - it made it less noticable.

I didn't like that. It seemed too lazy a way to have the story progress by presenting an illusion of choice that was all too easily dispelled.

 

Well to be fair, they originally designed it so you could choose to side with UNATCO/MJ12 if you saw fit. I believe time constraints prevented this. Likely they'd already made the MJ12 map and stuff, so decided you'd be captured and sent there as a prisoner instead. A left-over is the sound of a chopper in Battery Park - Jock is actually on the map waiting, like Paul said he would be.

[random n00b]

No, I was just curious how you can get past the locked doors of the UNATCO hq if Anna is still alive at that point of the game. I didn't realize you could and I'm interested in knowing what the method was.

To be honest, I haven't done it myself. From what I've gathered, it involves making a hell of a lot of noise (LAMs?) so that the guard outside will rush in and open the door in the process. Either that, or gassing Navarre so that she'll open it herself. Then you get the duck out of fodge.

 

Not intentional, as you can see.

 

 

Well to be fair, they originally designed it so you could choose to side with UNATCO/MJ12 if you saw fit. I believe time constraints prevented this. Likely they'd already made the MJ12 map and stuff, so decided you'd be captured and sent there as a prisoner instead. A left-over is the sound of a chopper in Battery Park - Jock is actually on the map waiting, like Paul said he would be.

Heh. Another victim of the deadlines. A shame, that option sounds like fun - joining the bad guys in a setting where they are actually bad as opposed to just goofy. There is/was a mod exploring that possibility, even. Don't know how much original content it uses, though.

[Purkake]

That's why I was confused, I thought you meant it as a counter-argument to what I said about not having to kill anyone in IW.

 

 

No, I was just curious how you can get past the locked doors of the UNATCO hq if Anna is still alive at that point of the game. I didn't realize you could and I'm interested in knowing what the method was.

 

it is explained with a video. Enjoy! Edited July 19, 2008 by Purkake

[themadhatter114]

Will this game use light and shadows to give a stealth feel reminiscent of Splinter Cell, or only noise and line-of-sight? I really hope we'll be able to do things like shoot out/turn off lights and quietly walk past people that are unknowingly looking right at us.

 

I love in Splinter Cell when you can flip a switch, take a few steps back, and then grab the guy who comes to flip the light back on, knock him out and hide his body in a dark corner of an adjacent room.

 

One thing that was amusing in Splinter Cell, though, was that it seemed like there were places that remained pitch black 24 hours a day no matter how many lights were on, and that by shooting out a single light you could create a little circle of blackness.

 

So I'd love use of light and shadows, but not complete dependency on it so that we can sometimes just avoid line of sight, pick locks and find alternate pathways, turn off cameras, etc.

[Stealthguy1986]

The 'light and shadow ' stealth technique is one of the strong points of Sc and at the same time it is one of the weak point of the game ( guard standing 2ft away from u but yet he can't see u) . Having this technique will be cool but it should n't be like SC's .

[Musopticon?]

I'd prefer if the enemies could still spot you even in heavy darkness as long as you'd on their unobstructed line of sight. No standing in a blotch of darkness melding into the shadow, but instead enemy increasing their state of alertness and moving to investigate because they can see your silhouette against a lighter background for instance.

 

And please no enemy awareness indicator: I can appreciate a light gem or a noise meter in a "scalpel" game where stealth is the only option and of paramount importance, such as Thief, but I'd prefer if Alpha Protocol, as a "Swiss army knife" game(aka every approach covered), making you rely on following enemy reactions and on your own environmental awareness to successfully stealth the levels. Creating diversions via hacking, hiding behind low walls, taking the back alley entrance, cutting the lights in a building, or even so-called "crowd stealth" approach, where you stay 'hidden' by being anonymous and blending in with hostiles. By-the-book espionage stuff. In Hitman games crowd stealth was basically the only method you could take to ensure victory. I wouldn't mind seeing it in AP to some extent as well.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Musopticon?

[Starwars]

I guess I'd just like to see the game promoting the use of stealth basically. In to many games it feels like it's *just* a way to bypass the enemies, with no reward on its own. If I sneak through without alerting guards or whatever, then I want to be rewarded for that. Both XP wise and sort of storywise (the game acknowledging it).

 

My simple wish for stealth in AP.

[Pidesco]

I'm betting that if you finish your missions stealthily, the later missions will be easier because of it, due to no one knowing who you are. At least I hope it will be like this.