KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion, Part 25

[SteveThaiBinh]

Welcome to Kotor3: Ideas and Suggestions part 25. To quote Lucian's introduction to a previous incarnation:

 

It's continuing mission is to have a place for the on-going discussions relating to K3. There is a lot of continued interest on this topic and keeping input centralised will have more impact and possible influence than multiple threads scattered throughout the forum.

 

While I know members who've been here a long time may find this discussion a somewhat elderly and done-to-death topic, please keep in mind that there are new members arriving all of the time, and to them, this might be a new and current topic of interest that they wish to discuss. Courtsey and hospitality to all members enhances the community and makes me smile - spam and trollish behaviour does not. So let's keep the posts on-topic, respectful and constructive in nature. If you don't wish to participate in K3 discussions, then DO NOT POST. :D

 

Have fun!

 

Here are the links to the past threads:

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[Darth_Sunnyboy]

Allready part 25 of this "neverending" forum^^

[DAWUSS]

Y'know, if Obsidian were to get the K3 gig, what would become of these threads?

[Jediphile]

Y'know, if Obsidian were to get the K3 gig, what would become of these threads?

 

What? There wouldn't be KotOR4 threads?

[Darth_Sunnyboy]

LOLZ!!! That would be cool^^ What do you guys think? IF Obsidian gets the K3 gig, they will ABSOLUTELY get the K4 gig^^

[Wolva]

Yeah right and then KOTOR4 would go about the mandolorian wars.

after this we get two more parts to link it up with KOTOR1

 

would be in the tradition of star wars but not very likely

 

I think the will end it after KOTOR3

 

But you'll never know what money does tio people

[DAWUSS]

There are primarily two things I want to see in KotOR III: a new character and no canon.

I think basing it off the established canon can make things a little easier for the writers, since they now only have one story to account for, not several.

 

Nah, it can be done. Both The Architect, myself and others have written speculative K3 plots that took this into account, and if we can do it, then certainly professional writers can as well. Might require some straining in places, but that mostly have to do with gender and appearance and so would be a problem anyway. Besides, Revan's gender and alignment remain optional in TSL, so that you could make Revan female and/or dark sided if you wanted. If you don't get the same option for exile in the next game, it will taste like gender bias and alienate potential players. To some people Revan and/or exile will always be dark sided. To me the exile will always be LS male.

How much of repeat content are we in for in K3? If it's simply Revan and the Exile in True Sith space, then TSL and KOTOR have little consequence then. But people did want to see familiar planets, and something like that would begin to give KOTOR and TSL more impact then.

 

One big misconception people have about Revan is that he isn't the Mysterious Stranger anymore. Now that most of his memories have returned, he is a totally different man.

 

Getting his memories back does not make him different as a matter of course - it depends on what he decides to become when confronted with these memories. Indeed, isn't that the choice Revan made back in K1? Embrace the dark side again and reclaim his title or remain on the LS? Sure, some of Revan's choices are a result of those memories, but then we already know that those are the reason he left to fight the true Sith. That confrontation could have changed Revan a lot in the four years he has already been out there when TSL begins, though.

When he was on the summit of the Temple of Ancients, he knew who he was, not yet what he was, what he did, or why he did what he did. It's almost implied that by the time the Exile returns to Republic space, that most (if not all) of his memories returned, considering that the Jedi Council didn't pry memories of the True Sith out of his mind following his capture. How much of the Mysterious Stranger did he want to keep? How much was he going to keep?

 

 

As far as former companions that are likely to play a role in KotOR III, either as an active party member or just as a character in the plot, they're either alive, dead, Jedi or Sith, or in the case of the Exile's companions, Dark Jedi. Pretty easy to work out.

No established canon? What if I didn't make all of my party members Jedi?

 

Then they were trained after the exile left - they were force sensitive and had the potential whether you built it in your game or not.

 

T3 - yes

HK-47 - To be quite honest, stuff him in that Hammerhead-class cruiser headed to Mustafar. He's built his HK-51 army, and I don't think he has much purpose in the Unknown Regions

Canderous - Too busy reuniting the Mandalorians

Carth - Under your "no establishment of canon" caveat, he might not even be alive

Bastila - she would probably be a late game addition, pending where the game begins

 

No, whatever K3 becomes, it must have T3 and HK-47 in there. They are the R2 and 3PO of KotOR, the chroniclers of the story, if you will.

 

I'd leave Canderous and Carth as NPCs you'll meet, but not companions. And they should be important with Carth as the leader of the Republic fleet and Canderous leading the Mandalorians. So what if Carth is dead - he just gets replaced by his "understudy" Cede like he was in TSL (though with less dialogue and cutscenes).

 

As for Bastila, I'd make her a pivotal character - she is the link to Revan through their mutual bond.

 

HK-47 IMO doesn't have much plot value at this point anymore, especially if K3 will be taking place in True Sith space. The fact that he amassed a droid army on Telos and on Mustafar is a big contrast to his initial anger and embarrassment over an army of droid clones, and there is a possibility that he may be trying to do something with them, and IMO he would have more use there than in the True Sith space with Revan and the Exile.

 

I do agree with Canderous and Carth - they're out fortifying armies.

 

As for Bastila, that can be a tricky subject, since she's going to be in Republic space the whole time. I'd like for her to be pivotal (especially under a canon situation), but I also don't want her showing up too early either.

[Calax]

oh and the new npc in k3 needs to be from taris.

[Bass-GameMaster]

The new character needs to have some feat or abillity to balance out Exile and Revan..

[Guest The Architect]

DAWUSS, my argument for why there shouldn't be canon in K3 is simply because there's no reason for them to go canon. It's just as simple as doing a plot based on canon and the advantage of no canon is, the way we played our games won't be ****ed over and made trivial, which will naturally help the player more attached to the story - if the past is portrayed in an ambiguous manner, like how it was in K2.

 

There doesn't need to be that much diversity in the story that it'd be a pain in the neck for developers to do, nor does there need to be such a difference in the behavioural characteristics of Revan & the Exile, if they are to feature in the game. They were our characters when we played as them in the games, but not anymore.

 

I want to see Revan and the Exile using their brains, working together and keeping a focused, disciplined state of mind. There's no need to portray them as ass kissing tree huggers or as maniacal, egoistic turds, depending on their alignment. If they happen to survive the battle with the True Sith, then that's where we can have different scenarios, depending on what alignment they were set to.

Edited June 8, 2008 by The Architect

[DAWUSS]

DAWUSS, my argument for why there shouldn't be canon in K3 is simply because there's no reason for them to go canon. It's just as simple as doing a plot based on canon and the advantage of no canon is, the way we played our games won't be ****ed over and made trivial, which will naturally help the player more attached to the story - if the past is portrayed in an ambiguous manner, like how it was in K2.

I think the storylines are becoming to the point where it will have to be sooner rather than later, considering all the buildup that Revan's fight against the True Sith is receiving, and sooner or later, the summation of the consequences of the actions both of them made will have to arrive. Fighting a dying Republic is different from fighting a reviving one. The endgame can't be irrelevant to everything else that happened. The endgame is a result of something that happened. K2 was able to have all four storylines work because it was (for all intents and purposes) separate from K1. It was building another segment to the arch, and now we're heading towards the peak of the arch, which is dependent on the segments supporting it.

 

There doesn't need to be that much diversity in the story that it'd be a pain in the neck for developers to do, nor does there need to be such a difference in the behavioural characteristics of Revan & the Exile, if they are to feature in the game. They were our characters when we played as them in the games, but not anymore.

Here we agree (I even mentioned it above), but isn't the opposite your basis for why canon shouldn't be followed?

 

I want to see Revan and the Exile using their brains, working together and keeping a focused, disciplined state of mind. There's no need to portray them as ass kissing tree huggers or as maniacal, egoistic turds, depending on their alignment. If they happen to survive the battle with the True Sith, then that's where we can have different scenarios, depending on what alignment they were set to.

 

As I was reading this, another thought hit me (this may be getting off-topic and bringing in other threads into this, but I'm going ahead with it anyway) - if the Sith are a belief, and the True Sith follow that belief, and Revan was an expert of fighting a war of conversion and doubt, then isn't it a possibility that this battle will be fought with ideas rather than lightsabers? Now I'm not sure how the Exile necessarily fits into this equation yet (and as I mentioned in another thread, I doubt their reunion will be a happy one because of Revan's requests).

 

I'm starting to wonder if that Revan went to the Unknown Regions to convert the True Sith to his cause, propagandize a war with the Republic where the True Sith (and their beliefs) would be baited into extinction, and Revan didn't want anyone following him because right as the True Sith began to fight the war that would end them, Revan would vanish from the True Sith's sight, and if someone he knew was with him in the Unknown Regions, they would be unaware of his true intentions and think that once again Revan was stabbing his back on the Republic. Upon that assumption, they would probably make a beeline for Republic space and start wailing "traitor", if Revan wasn't able to silence them (lethally if necessary). Also, there are times where one outside individual is more effective than an entire outside legion.

 

Again I have little idea where the Exile fits into all this, though.

[Bass-GameMaster]

You guys have a great arguement.. But I cant seem to pick a side.

[Guest The Architect]

I think the storylines are becoming to the point where it will have to be sooner rather than later, considering all the buildup that Revan's fight against the True Sith is receiving, and sooner or later, the summation of the consequences of the actions both of them made will have to arrive. Fighting a dying Republic is different from fighting a reviving one. The endgame can't be irrelevant to everything else that happened. The endgame is a result of something that happened. K2 was able to have all four storylines work because it was (for all intents and purposes) separate from K1. It was building another segment to the arch, and now we're heading towards the peak of the arch, which is dependent on the segments supporting it.

 

But the overall result is the same, regardless.

 

The Sith of KotOR got ****ed over, regardless if Revan was DS or not. The Republic is weak and rebuilding, regardless. The Jedi are a rabble, regardless. The Mandalorians are a small but potent, rebuilding force, regardless.

 

It's the short term future of the Jedi that will be affected, which is dependant on the Exile's alignment. If the Exile is DS, then what situation will the Jedi be in come K3? What do you do with the Exile's companions if the Exile is DS? These two questions, in my opinion, can be dealt with and implemented into the plot, hence I don't see why canon should be put in.

 

For the former, the few Jedi left can be led by different people. For the latter, the Exile's companions can be Dark Jedi, allied with the Mandalorians, preparing for battle with the True Sith.

 

Here we agree (I even mentioned it above), but isn't the opposite your basis for why canon shouldn't be followed?

 

No. To support a non canon plot doesn't mean I expect much diversity in the story depending on alignment. All I'm saying is, a fairly consistent story can be done for K3 without resorting to canon. I'd love one of the developers to be able to confirm this, but as it is...

 

As I was reading this, another thought hit me (this may be getting off-topic and bringing in other threads into this, but I'm going ahead with it anyway) - if the Sith are a belief, and the True Sith follow that belief, and Revan was an expert of fighting a war of conversion and doubt, then isn't it a possibility that this battle will be fought with ideas rather than lightsabers? Now I'm not sure how the Exile necessarily fits into this equation yet (and as I mentioned in another thread, I doubt their reunion will be a happy one because of Revan's requests).

 

I'm starting to wonder if that Revan went to the Unknown Regions to convert the True Sith to his cause, propagandize a war with the Republic where the True Sith (and their beliefs) would be baited into extinction, and Revan didn't want anyone following him because right as the True Sith began to fight the war that would end them, Revan would vanish from the True Sith's sight, and if someone he knew was with him in the Unknown Regions, they would be unaware of his true intentions and think that once again Revan was stabbing his back on the Republic. Upon that assumption, they would probably make a beeline for Republic space and start wailing "traitor", if Revan wasn't able to silence them (lethally if necessary). Also, there are times where one outside individual is more effective than an entire outside legion.

 

Again I have little idea where the Exile fits into all this, though.

 

You can't expect the True Sith to just put their feet up and listen to an outsider. The Sith prove themselves through their power of the force, through physical feats of ability. I agree that Revan went to fight a war of conversion, either as an undercover or genuine Sith, but in order for Revan to be accepted, Revan would have to demonstrate great skill and power, first. I'm sure Revan thought of a way to do this, then perhaps convert the younger and upcoming Sith to a "rebellion" against the hierarchy of the True Sith and cause a massive civil war, which would delay any plans they had to attack the Republic.

[Bass-GameMaster]

I think the storylines are becoming to the point where it will have to be sooner rather than later, considering all the buildup that Revan's fight against the True Sith is receiving, and sooner or later, the summation of the consequences of the actions both of them made will have to arrive. Fighting a dying Republic is different from fighting a reviving one. The endgame can't be irrelevant to everything else that happened. The endgame is a result of something that happened. K2 was able to have all four storylines work because it was (for all intents and purposes) separate from K1. It was building another segment to the arch, and now we're heading towards the peak of the arch, which is dependent on the segments supporting it.

 

But the overall result is the same, regardless.

 

The Sith of KotOR got ****ed over, regardless if Revan was DS or not. The Republic is weak and rebuilding, regardless. The Jedi are a rabble, regardless. The Mandalorians are a small but potent, rebuilding force, regardless.

 

It's the short term future of the Jedi that will be affected, which is dependant on the Exile's alignment. If the Exile is DS, then what situation will the Jedi be in come K3? What do you do with the Exile's companions if the Exile is DS? These two questions, in my opinion, can be dealt with and implemented into the plot, hence I don't see why canon should be put in.

 

For the former, the few Jedi left can be led by different people. For the latter, the Exile's companions can be Dark Jedi, allied with the Mandalorians, preparing for battle with the True Sith.

 

Here we agree (I even mentioned it above), but isn't the opposite your basis for why canon shouldn't be followed?

 

No. To support a non canon plot doesn't mean I expect much diversity in the story depending on alignment. All I'm saying is, a fairly consistent story can be done for K3 without resorting to canon. I'd love one of the developers to be able to confirm this, but as it is...

 

As I was reading this, another thought hit me (this may be getting off-topic and bringing in other threads into this, but I'm going ahead with it anyway) - if the Sith are a belief, and the True Sith follow that belief, and Revan was an expert of fighting a war of conversion and doubt, then isn't it a possibility that this battle will be fought with ideas rather than lightsabers? Now I'm not sure how the Exile necessarily fits into this equation yet (and as I mentioned in another thread, I doubt their reunion will be a happy one because of Revan's requests).

 

I'm starting to wonder if that Revan went to the Unknown Regions to convert the True Sith to his cause, propagandize a war with the Republic where the True Sith (and their beliefs) would be baited into extinction, and Revan didn't want anyone following him because right as the True Sith began to fight the war that would end them, Revan would vanish from the True Sith's sight, and if someone he knew was with him in the Unknown Regions, they would be unaware of his true intentions and think that once again Revan was stabbing his back on the Republic. Upon that assumption, they would probably make a beeline for Republic space and start wailing "traitor", if Revan wasn't able to silence them (lethally if necessary). Also, there are times where one outside individual is more effective than an entire outside legion.

 

Again I have little idea where the Exile fits into all this, though.

 

You can't expect the True Sith to just put their feet up and listen to an outsider. The Sith prove themselves through their power of the force, through physical feats of ability. I agree that Revan went to fight a war of conversion, either as an undercover or genuine Sith, but in order for Revan to be accepted, Revan would have to demonstrate great skill and power, first. I'm sure Revan thought of a way to do this, then perhaps convert the younger and upcoming Sith to a "rebellion" against the hierarchy of the True Sith and cause a massive civil war, which would delay any plans they had to attack the Republic.

 

I agree with Architect, canon is canon it doesn't have to be that way. But it being that way can make since and be easier to put together.. but non-canon could be incredible.

[Meshugger]

But ofcourse, it will be an MMO.

[Rosbjerg]

A LucasArt MMO? .. I don't have high hopes for that, they don't seem like a company who can stay focused on a project for very long before they move on the the next "big thing" often leaving some of their releases battered and bleeding behind.

 

But then again, maybe they can muster the will and manpower to make a good game. Cheers to that.

[DAWUSS]

... and we know disgruntled former employees are a reliable source of inforation

[Xard]

In this case yes

[Guest The Architect]

OH **** OFF.

 

If KotOR3 turns out to be a MMORPG then that's a major ****in' fail.

[H]

KotOR MMO is pretty much a dead deal, I think. However, I doubt it will be KotOR 3. A spin-off set during Mandalorian Wars is more likely.

[babydol]

OH **** OFF.

 

If KotOR3 turns out to be a MMORPG then that's a major ****in' fail.

 

Agreed! Why would they even go there? Maybe, what with everyone being fired and all, they'll have to start from scratch. Again.

[I want teh kotor 3]

A kotor mmo would really seal the fact of LucasArts being a true failure, not just an epic one.

Edited June 9, 2008 by I want teh kotor 3

[Jediphile]

OH **** OFF.

 

If KotOR3 turns out to be a MMORPG then that's a major ****in' fail.

 

Agreed! Why would they even go there? Maybe, what with everyone being fired and all, they'll have to start from scratch. Again.

 

This is the same source that we heard the other day which attributed a KotOR MMO to a collaboration between LA and Bioware. Hence I don't believe it, since LA has already denied that. Yes, they are working on something with Bioware, but it has nothing to do with KotOR.

 

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/852/852342p1.html

[qt3.14159]

Yes, but the excuse I've heard for them continually denying it is that Sony still has their exclusive contract for a SW MMO and they won't say anything about it until that contract is up... which should be fairly soon, right?

 

Anyhow, that doesn't mean I believe it... but the same rumors have been circulating for a while... it wouldn't surprise me either way...

 

As a WoW player who knows nothing about Warcraft lore in general, I can't help but think that an MMO would not do justice to the story. But, I suppose it's possible they could somehow incorporate one for those of us who want it...

 

But if Bioware is working on it, I don't think it would be satisfying at all... Because it'll never be the ending that was intended.

Edited June 9, 2008 by qt3.14159

[Jediphile]

Yes, but the excuse I've heard for them continually denying it is that Sony still has their exclusive contract for a SW MMO and they won't say anything about it until that contract is up... which should be fairly soon, right?

 

Sony's contract is up next year. If LA doesn't want to continue it, then that's it. They own Star Wars and can do what they like with it, as long as it doesn't violate contracts they've signed. If LA don't want to extend the contract with Sony, then I don't see that there is really anything but timing to prevent them from saying so and what will happen next instead.

 

And note that while LA has said the project with Bioware has nothing to do with KotOR, they have not said it has nothing to do with Star Wars... And incidentally, the Star Wars live-action tv-series is also set to premiere next year

 

But if Bioware is working on it, I don't think it would be satisfying at all... Because it'll never be the ending that was intended.

 

Bioware is not working on a KotOR MMO, according to LA. My suspicion is that the LA-Bioware collaboration is actually a Star Wars MMO set between Episodes III and IV to cash in on the live action tv series. KotOR is a fairly small franchise within the franchise. It has a dedicated fanbase, but not a particularly numerous one. LA has a habit of not releasing "competing" products, so I doubt they'd launch two Star Wars-based MMOs. If they align the new MMO with the live-action tv show, they can probably cash in a lot more than they could with a KotOR MMO, which will get a mixed reception from the KotOR fanbase at best.