Albion72 Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 What I'm trying to say is that if they have some measure of intelligence then they can have them LIVE and still tie the story off, the best stories are usually the ones where the main character doesn't die... it just shows that the author had to finish it and didn't know what to do... That depends entirely on the circumstances. Character death can be potent if done for plot reasons. For example. J.R.R. Tolkien did not kill Boromir in "The Lord of the Rings" because he didn't know what to do with the character - his death has long-lasting and deep consequences that are essential to the following plot development. You could say it's lazy writing to then kill of characters in the background, but even then I'd consider the deaths of Hicks and Newt in Alien3 to not be so, since it means Ripley is now alone again and must face danger without allies, thus serving a reason in the plot. "Lazy death" is more like in the end of KotOR1, when LS Revan tries to redeem Malak, but he refuses and then conveniently drops over dead. I could accept if Revan and/or exile are killed, if it serves a plot reason, but then it has to be for that reason - not because the writers couldn't figure out what to do with them and so killed them off in the background during the opening title crawl. If we can think of stuff to do with them in K3 without gender or alignment being a problem, then surely professional developers can too. Who knows maybe K3 will pull a K2 and leave a lot left out... that'd really upset people LOL! Although arguing over this is kind of pointless because everyone has different tastes on what they like to see as far as endings. You can do different endings for different people. The Fallout games have something like that. I'd expect it to more flashy and movie-like for K3 given the age of those games, but dramatically there is nothing that says that is not perfectly valid. Well see I don't care if backgroudn characters die (HK-47, Mira, Atton, etc). Yes Tolkien killed off Theoden and Boromir but not Frodo and Samwise... that would've been to much for the main protagonists (if you tink tis them, i prefer to think its the trio... Aragorn Legolas and Gimli :D.
Jediphile Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 Well see I don't care if backgroudn characters die (HK-47, Mira, Atton, etc). Yes Tolkien killed off Theoden and Boromir but not Frodo and Samwise... that would've been to much for the main protagonists (if you tink tis them, i prefer to think its the trio... Aragorn Legolas and Gimli :D. Boromir was not a background character - he was a member of the Fellowship, after all. And if KotOR3 has a new main character, then Revan and exile will by defintion have to in the background. Or would you claim Revan was a major character in TSL? We heard about him, sure, but we never met him or even learned what had finally become of him, just that where he had gone when disappeared four years before. Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Albion72 Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Well see I don't care if backgroudn characters die (HK-47, Mira, Atton, etc). Yes Tolkien killed off Theoden and Boromir but not Frodo and Samwise... that would've been to much for the main protagonists (if you tink tis them, i prefer to think its the trio... Aragorn Legolas and Gimli :D. Boromir was not a background character - he was a member of the Fellowship, after all. And if KotOR3 has a new main character, then Revan and exile will by defintion have to in the background. Or would you claim Revan was a major character in TSL? We heard about him, sure, but we never met him or even learned what had finally become of him, just that where he had gone when disappeared four years before. Yes but its a Saga.
Jediphile Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Well see I don't care if backgroudn characters die (HK-47, Mira, Atton, etc). Yes Tolkien killed off Theoden and Boromir but not Frodo and Samwise... that would've been to much for the main protagonists (if you tink tis them, i prefer to think its the trio... Aragorn Legolas and Gimli :D. Boromir was not a background character - he was a member of the Fellowship, after all. And if KotOR3 has a new main character, then Revan and exile will by defintion have to in the background. Or would you claim Revan was a major character in TSL? We heard about him, sure, but we never met him or even learned what had finally become of him, just that where he had gone when disappeared four years before. Yes but its a Saga. And Star Wars isn't? Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
babydol Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 off topic but I LOVED Boromir. Or 006, as I like to call him. Wish he coulda been around more (maybe Sean Bean could have played Faramir or even Aragorn). Check out my KOTOR fan vids on YouTube. And no, they're not of legos.
Guest The Architect Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Yeah Boromir was awesome. I ****ing hate that Uruk-hai prick! Yes but its a Saga. And Star Wars isn't?
Darth Clumber Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 I thought Frodo DID die at the end...I guess I'll have to read the books again...
DeathScepter Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Frodo did die but it was much later on after the War.
Jediphile Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Frodo did die but it was much later on after the War. Frodo passed into the west with Gandalf and Bilbo, so essentially we don't know if he died - they're called the "undying lands" after all... Unless you want to call that symbolic for death, which many do. Still, it doesn't change that the quest cost him his life, because it did - it left him scarred to the point where he could never return to his old life and find rest or solace or even joy in it again. Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
DeathScepter Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Lord of the Rings have a lot of symbolic meaning to it.
Jediphile Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Lord of the Rings have a lot of symbolic meaning to it. Not according to Tolkien himself. As for any inner meaning or "message", it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical. Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
DeathScepter Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 damn. good point. damn me and my overactive imagination of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM
Darth Clumber Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Frodo did die but it was much later on after the War. It doesn't matter WHEN it happened, my point is just that it ended with the main character's death.
Bass-GameMaster Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 So revans going to ride a horse now? Revan+LOTR? ""Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan
Jediphile Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Frodo did die but it was much later on after the War. It doesn't matter WHEN it happened, my point is just that it ended with the main character's death. Actually, we don't know that Frodo died in LOTR After all, he went into the west to the Undying Lands of the elves along with Gandalf, Bilbo, Elrond, and Galadriel. Indeed, most of the fellowship eventually, so we don't know that they died. Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Trenitay Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 How was KotOR related to LotR? They are completely different things Hey now, my mother is huge and don't you forget it. The drunk can't even get off the couch to make herself a vodka drenched sandwich. Octopus suck.
Bass-GameMaster Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 "So revans going to ride a horse now? Revan+LOTR" I said that cause you guys are comparing to completely different pieces of art. ""Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan
DeathScepter Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 actually in the previous page a guy compared Kotor to Lotr because both of them are "sagas." Well it comparing apple to oranges.
Jediphile Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 actually in the previous page a guy compared Kotor to Lotr because both of them are "sagas." Well it comparing apple to oranges. Why? LOTR was brought in relation to comments about the implications of killing Revan and exile in K3. One argument was that killing them suggested bad writing, because killing them would be because the plotwriter did not know what to do with them. I then mentioned Boromir, because he was definitely not killed in LOTR because Tolkien did not know what to do with him, since his death has major influence on how the plot unfolds later. Besides, with all the knights and mysterious "force" wielded by "a crazy old wizard" (spoken by Owen Lars about Kenobi), Star Wars seems much closer to LOTR than it is to Star Trek or Blade Runner. Star Wars is a morality tale told with very classic definitions of good and evil, and the technology is incidental to the story. We may know now how a lightsaber supposedly works or how the death star was built, but we surely had them long, long before anybody bothered to think of the technology, and even when they did, that was still only incidental to the plot. You can do sci-fi plots in Star Wars, sure, but when did we see one outside a comic book or a minor story in an anthology - one where the technology was more significant to the plot than the battle between good (LS) and evil (DS)? Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
DeathScepter Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 true, great post. But in my previous post, Lotr and Star wars/kotor has as much as or as little as you in common
caradoc Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 Revan will be dead by K3, so the Ex can't meet him/her.
I want teh kotor 3 Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Revan will be dead by K3, so the Ex can't meet him/her. K3 doesn't exist. It's dead! Dead, I tell you! In 7th grade, I teach the students how Chuck Norris took down the Roman Empire, so it is good that you are starting early on this curriculum. R.I.P. KOTOR 2003-2008 KILLED BY THOSE GREEDY MONEY-HOARDING ************* AND THEIR *****-*** MMOS
Albion72 Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Meh, I'll try this "KOTOR MMO". I'm an MMO fan... but sadly this is how most MMOs work. 1. Create Character 2. Log in, gaze at the world around and you are amazed for 5 minutes. 3. Find out the whole point of the game is an endless grind to the next lvl, with no plot, no awesome quests, nothing. Just kill more more and more until you are the max lvl then start over again. Quests go like this, "Hey Traveler, fetch me 5 snakeskins please?" You go kill 5 snakes and take it back, "Thank you brave one! Here is your reward!" "EXP Given, 500 Credits Gained". Oh and the "MMO Aspect" of gear. "Selling blue lightsaber 2m!" .... I fail to see how they can make plot work with an MMO, but I will try it nonetheless.
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