Sex and video games

[Meshugger]

Linky.

 

I agree with the video, i found it very well thought out and entertaining as well.

 

Your thoughts?

[Pidesco]

While he makes good points, I don't think treatment of sex in games is the problem but rather a symptom of the bigger issue. Which is that writing in games is generally dire, and would be considered incompetent in any other medium. Furthermore, when the writing is better than usual in games, a lot of times the story still lives in vacuum, without any real connection to the actual game other than serving as the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick.

 

Games can't insert sex meaningfully into their narratives, if the narratives are generally meaningless to begin with.

[random n00b]

I was going to say exactly what Pidesco wrote, so I won't repeat it.

 

What I don't understand is the seemingly irrational fear of the AO rating. If we're dealing with a story with adult motives and adult themes, then chances are that a mature, sensible portrayal of sex isn't out of place. It's not the kind of game a dev would buy for his children to begin with, sex or no sex. So why, then, the fear of getting an AO rating?

 

It's a matter of time, I guess. When today's gamers are making laws tomorrow, something else will be The Book.

[Xard]

random: It's because in America many shops e.g whole Walmart refuse to sell AO rated games. This means lots of lost sales

 

Or that's how I remember it anyhow

[Moatilliatta]

I agree with Pidesco, hypersexuality isn't a problem, it just sticks out because games have plenty of serious problems like bad writing.

 

Also, why would he try to imitate ZP when he obviously can't do it properly?

 

Edit: I also like that all the Related videos in youtube are about porn and swingers.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Moatilliatta

[Tale]

I haven't seen sex inserted meaningfully into any narrative. Book, movie, or game, it's generally only there to be titilating.

[Meshugger]

While he makes good points, I don't think treatment of sex in games is the problem but rather a symptom of the bigger issue. Which is that writing in games is generally dire, and would be considered incompetent in any other medium. Furthermore, when the writing is better than usual in games, a lot of times the story still lives in vacuum, without any real connection to the actual game other than serving as the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick.

 

Games can't insert sex meaningfully into their narratives, if the narratives are generally meaningless to begin with.

 

Good point. But he does make the notion that games usually have as good writing as the consumers who buy them, thus the stigma of being immature themselves.

 

And AO is a very big "No-no" in games in the US, since it usually means, compared to movies, that it contains explicit sex or direct pornography. And since a nipple-slip in can be considered as "AO" in games, well go figure. And as Xard said, the biggest supermarket chains refuses to sell AO-games, leaving the market self-censored.

[Moatilliatta]

@Tale

And just because you haven't seen it being used in a meaningfull way means that it must be meaningless?

 

The reason hypersexuality is meaningless in almost all (if not all) cases is that people put it in to titilate the viewer and not as some sort of artistic expression.

 

Sexuality is overused even in most movies, but it is usefull if people want to use it.

[Pidesco]

I haven't seen sex inserted meaningfully into any narrative. Book, movie, or game, it's generally only there to be titilating.

 

You mean an actual sex scene or sexuality?

[Calax]

While he makes good points, I don't think treatment of sex in games is the problem but rather a symptom of the bigger issue. Which is that writing in games is generally dire, and would be considered incompetent in any other medium. Furthermore, when the writing is better than usual in games, a lot of times the story still lives in vacuum, without any real connection to the actual game other than serving as the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick.

 

Games can't insert sex meaningfully into their narratives, if the narratives are generally meaningless to begin with.

 

Good point. But he does make the notion that games usually have as good writing as the consumers who buy them, thus the stigma of being immature themselves.

 

And AO is a very big "No-no" in games in the US, since it usually means, compared to movies, that it contains explicit sex or direct pornography. And since a nipple-slip in can be considered as "AO" in games, well go figure. And as Xard said, the biggest supermarket chains refuses to sell AO-games, leaving the market self-censored.

actually god of war refutes your nipple slip comment there mesh

[Meshugger]

Listen to Pidesco, folks. He's from Southern Europe, they know the difference on sex and sexuality.

 

This is much more fun argumenting than sitting around writing about how to de-assemble the JFIF encoder of the JPEG format into seperate components for parallel execution, wherever possible

[Meshugger]

While he makes good points, I don't think treatment of sex in games is the problem but rather a symptom of the bigger issue. Which is that writing in games is generally dire, and would be considered incompetent in any other medium. Furthermore, when the writing is better than usual in games, a lot of times the story still lives in vacuum, without any real connection to the actual game other than serving as the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick.

 

Games can't insert sex meaningfully into their narratives, if the narratives are generally meaningless to begin with.

 

Good point. But he does make the notion that games usually have as good writing as the consumers who buy them, thus the stigma of being immature themselves.

 

And AO is a very big "No-no" in games in the US, since it usually means, compared to movies, that it contains explicit sex or direct pornography. And since a nipple-slip in can be considered as "AO" in games, well go figure. And as Xard said, the biggest supermarket chains refuses to sell AO-games, leaving the market self-censored.

actually god of war refutes your nipple slip comment there mesh

 

Touch

[Pidesco]

While he makes good points, I don't think treatment of sex in games is the problem but rather a symptom of the bigger issue. Which is that writing in games is generally dire, and would be considered incompetent in any other medium. Furthermore, when the writing is better than usual in games, a lot of times the story still lives in vacuum, without any real connection to the actual game other than serving as the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick.

 

Games can't insert sex meaningfully into their narratives, if the narratives are generally meaningless to begin with.

 

Good point. But he does make the notion that games usually have as good writing as the consumers who buy them, thus the stigma of being immature themselves.

 

 

That's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, though. Also, games with bad writing will never go away, anymore than bad movies or bad books are going to disappear. The question is about games being made to appeal to a more diverse audience than just the minimum common denominator, which seems to be the focus of almost every game these days. Making the gaming equivalent of Old Man and the Sea should be a commercially viable option.

 

Fahrenheit, for example, was a game with "higher" goals than usual, but it still was only trying (and failing) to make the gaming equivalent of a good Hollywood blockbuster thriller.

[Tigranes]

You have to look at the kind of people in the industry as well, though. Good writing is not something that just comes out of 'hard work' alone. Writing is a craft and you need to know how to write. And as we all know, talent in writing can't be equated to degrees in English literature. That's the quandary: on one hand, the problem is that writers aren't specialists, and often just people who love video games, and its difficult to expect the industry as a whole to generate anything above, say, Hollywood or daytime TV (if it needs to, anyway); on the other hand, hiring specialist 'game writers' or hiring writers to write games violates the holistic approach to game development that is so crucial in a truly multimedia enterprise.

[Pidesco]

Listen to Pidesco, folks. He's from Southern Europe, they know the difference on sex and sexuality.

 

This is much more fun argumenting than sitting around writing about how to de-assemble the JFIF encoder of the JPEG format into separate components for parallel execution, wherever possible

 

What, there aren't any dictionaries in Northern Europe?

 

 

Regarding writing quality, I'd like to add that good writing in itself shouldn't be the main concern of game designers right now. First, they should be thinking about ways to integrate narratives into gameplay, so that the gameplay is dependent on the narrative and the narrative is dependent on the gameplay. Gameplay should make the player care more about the characters and the issues in the storyline. How can gameplay enhance empathy?

[random n00b]

random: It's because in America many shops e.g whole Walmart refuse to sell AO rated games. This means lots of lost sales

 

Or that's how I remember it anyhow

Is that for real?

 

Wow, that explains it, then. If they don't sell porn flicks, they don't sell AO games, either. Makes sense, I guess.

 

lol puritanism

 

 

I haven't seen sex inserted meaningfully into any narrative. Book, movie, or game, it's generally only there to be titilating.

Yes, well. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the quality and consistency of the narrative of the majority of works in which (explicit) sex is featured... ahem.

 

Sexuality, however, is a central part of human behavior. And as such, it stands to reason that it belongs with the rest of social conducts commonly presented in narrative. There's more to sexuality than just the act itself.

[Humodour]

I'd prefer if they kept sex out of games. PS:T/Fallout/Deus Ex level is fine. Which I guess gives a lot of leeway, but the point is you can depict some sexual content to enhance the game world, without actually really dragging the PC into it.

[random n00b]

Fallout? I assume you mean the first game only...

[Meshugger]

I'd prefer if they kept sex out of games. PS:T/Fallout/Deus Ex level is fine. Which I guess gives a lot of leeway, but the point is you can depict some sexual content to enhance the game world, without actually really dragging the PC into it.

 

But what if the game requires to have full-frontal penetration in order to describe that the character's relationship is decadent and deprived, and not based on love and companionship? These things can't be written or described, they have to be shown. Or don't these matters on sexuality matter in North America/anywere?

[Predalien Sir!]

ewwww you guys are disgusting as if you'd want that in a game!!

[Meshugger]

ewwww you guys are disgusting as if you'd want that in a game!!

 

Revolting as it may sound, it is an everyday occurance in our lives, and even in puritanical america.

[random n00b]

Yes it's not that bad actually... or so I'm told.

[Pidesco]

I'd prefer if they kept sex out of games. PS:T/Fallout/Deus Ex level is fine. Which I guess gives a lot of leeway, but the point is you can depict some sexual content to enhance the game world, without actually really dragging the PC into it.

 

But what if the game requires to have full-frontal penetration in order to describe that the character's relationship is decadent and deprived, and not based on love and companionship? These things can't be written or described, they have to be shown. Or don't these matters on sexuality matter in North America/anywere?

 

That would be a bit unimaginative, though. Not exactly heavy on the symbolism.

[Tigranes]

*shrug* there are nearly always suitable alternatives to frank depiction of sexual intercourse. Whether these alternatives 'protect' us or contribute to building up that imaginary of sex, is up for debate. But to say that the depiction of sex is necessary I think is stretching it a bit for *most* games or narratives. I know of many narratives that could do without it, certainly, in films, etc.

[Tale]

I haven't seen sex inserted meaningfully into any narrative. Book, movie, or game, it's generally only there to be titilating.

 

You mean an actual sex scene or sexuality?

The distinction goes both ways. There's no argument about "sexuality" in games. Until it expands into sex scenes or similarly overt sexual themes.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Tale