US Presidential Elections

[Yuusha]

@Sand:

 

If you want me to present a case to you regarding which is worse, nuclear free Iran or genocidal Israel, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

 

Should I?

--------------

 

@Tigranes:

In the past, Obama have said that he was sympathetic to the Palestinian's plight. He is a candidate who promised change yet succumbs to AIPAC and its demands

[Walsingham]

According to Elliot D. Cohen, Ph.D.

 

__ Phds no-longer impress me. I know too many of them. __

 

A McCain administration would be likely to:

 

Invest incredible amounts of money in sustaining multiple, simultaneous wars overseas at the expense of neglecting pressing concerns at home, including the economy, health care, the environment and education.

 

__ Sand? Is that you, ol' buddy? It's not a question of pick one. Government has to recognise it's interconnectedness ___

 

Stockpile nuclear weapons, while seeking to prohibit its adversaries from having them.

 

__ And this would be silly how? __

 

Attempt to shield the U.S. with a multilayered missile defense system based on land, at sea, in the air and in space, while demanding that nations that are not its allies become sitting ducks.

 

__ Simply untrue. In fact so untrue I'm susipicious of your man here. The shield will protect its allies. __

 

Strive to develop more potent chemical and biological weapons-not to mention the genotype-specific variety, while at the same time claiming to be fighting a "war on terror."

 

__ Completely unsubstantiated slander. What 'genotype specific' variants? You're talking science fiction. __

 

Legalize "Total Information Awareness"-going through all Americans' phone calls, e-mail messages and other personal records without needing probable cause.

 

__ Quite possibly the case. However, due to the very real and immense threat posed by mass terrorism and organised crime it may be necessary. __

 

Take control of the Internet, globally using it as an offensive political weapon-while claiming to be spreading democracy throughout the world.

 

__ How exactly has McCain advocated this? __

 

Dispense with checks and balances in favor of the "unitary executive authority" of the president.

 

__ You're saying that about a man who has vigorously opposed and acted independently from his party and the President __

 

Alienate nations that refuse to join our war coalitions.

 

__ Where is this chap from? The Land of Oz? That's how alliances work. You be our friend, we be yours, capice? __

 

Deny that there is (or can be) a United Nations.

A McCain administration would rule by fear, perceive right in terms of military might and subscribe to the idea of "do as I say and not as I do." As a consequence, instead of rebuilding the image of America as a model of justice and civility, it would further sully respect for this nation throughout the world.

 

__ Froth. Pure antiBush froth. McCain is NOT Bush. __

[SteveThaiBinh]

The only thing Obama said that was objectionable was the bit about Jerusalem remaining undivided. It's not really for the US President to preempt whatever deal the Israelis and Palestinians thrash out amongst themselves, and both will have to give ground somewhere.

 

That aside, supporting Israel and supporting Palestine are not mutually exclusive. Obama, like most of us, is sympathetic to the difficulties of people on both sides of this conflict. Yuusha, can you say the same?

[Meshugger]

AIPAC is just one of many. There are "interest" groups from every part of the political and financial spectrum investing in the presidental candidates. Together, they want a return on their investment when one of candidates are elected. It's simply money, and the politicians love it, and the "interest" groups understand it.

 

Yuusha, you seem to be under the impression that AIPAC is the decider of every american president since it was formed. It is not, the main decider in the US politics are the religious right (not the Republicans), which constists of a myriad of people. They are very organized through their churches and on who they vote for, or even vote at all, will be the deciding point in the presidential election. They do share many of the opinions that AIPAC have, but for different reasons. Every candidate knows this.

 

Point being, the world isn't run by the Jewish Zionist mafia as you say, it is run by money. Also, do not take your information from news agancies based in the countries that are in red, since agenda is very clear on their behalf:

 

 

Those in red do not recognize the state of Israel to exist.

Edited June 17, 2008 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

Not So Cool Facts About Israel

Open your eyes man. No presidential candidate can be elected without the Zionists' blessings .

 

It isn't that simple as the video projects. The British conclave of Palestine was a part of the part of a much bigger area. When the british left after the first world war, the area was a part of Egypt and Jordan. There certainly wasn't a Palestinic national identity in such terms that an indepence was required.

 

Fast forward a couple of years, a great exodus of Jews come from Europe to Jerusalem and around because of the increasing Anti-semitism in the 1930's. It was severly increased after WWII. Anyhoo, the huge amount of immigrants caused some smaller conflicts in the area, worsening foe each day because of BOTH sides being poopeyheads. The newly founded U.N. wanted to create a seperate jewish and arab state, the jews said "ok" and the arabs said "feck no! Every inch is our land, you have basis to create an own state! Again, feck off!".

 

The result was a civil war between the arabs and the jews. Later in 1948, the jews grew a bit tired of fighting and asked again about the two-state solution from the Jordanian King, who replied: "Feck off! But since you asked politely, i will grant a jewish quarter in Jerusalem for you (a ghetto), but no one is allowed to convert to judaism, jiddish will not be the official language anywhere, and the only religion officially allowed will be Islam, Allah be the wisest!".

 

- "Aww shucks", said the Jews, and turned to Truman for support, which he granted for a jewish state. And much of the rest of the world followed. The problem was, the american support for a jewish state didn't site any borders, making everyone, including the jews themselves, a bit perplexed. "Where are the borders again?" Some may have asked. No matter, the arab neighbouring countries had enough and all attacked, promising that every jew would be thrown in the sea. But they and failed, and Israel was born.

 

Then again in 1967, the arabs tried again to no avail, and ended up loosing badly. Gaza, the Golean heights, The West Bank and all of Sinai was taken by the horribly jews. "It was all their fault for taking it, boo!" - Said the arabs. Egypt was especially angry about Sinai, so the Jews gave it back, but kept the rest. Now suddenly, a Palestinian national identity was aroused in old West Jordan (The West Bank) and the Egyptian Gaza, claiming that they were a seperate entitity from the other arab countries (Nevermind there are millions still living outside the palestininian borders with no rights) and they should have an own state. Israel being proud of her achievements, said "Yeah right, you had your shot, it's our land now. We do what we want with it." And thus, the Palestinian uprising began. Valiantly fighting at first only with the Israeli military, but after the big mess IDF made in Lebanon in the 1970's, they wanted to blow sh*t up instead, since every dead jew is a good jew.

 

Fast-forward again a couple of years, and Arafat and Rabin have peace-talks. PLO agrees to an Israeli state and Hamas becomes mad and don't agree with Arafat, making them the new suicicide-bombing big player in the region. Still, a somewhat Palestinian state was in the progress. Rabin is shot by PLANET ZOG, i mean by a digruntled isreali extremist, and everything seemed bad for a while. Later, and to a great displease of PLANET ZOG OF THE 13 ILLUMINATI FAMILIES (who really believes this crap?), i mean the orthodox jews, Gaza was returned to the Palestinian state. But like any new-born nation, the PLO and Hamas didn't get along with one and another, and started kill each other instead. Being tired of suicide-bombers getting into Israel, and the noise of people killing each other in Gaza, the jews built a great wall, which ofcourse made the arabs really angry, since Israel have no right to exist, or even protect itself.

 

Still today, those guys down there can't get along. BOTH are killing each other and refuse to turn the other cheek, or even being able to forgive. You know, things called "human traits" and such. Nothing will be done until Israel is allowed to exist, AND the Palestinians get some land and they live happy ever after in harmony.

 

Today the jews have been blamed for the great depression of 1929, the creation of the soviet union, capitalism,the plague, AIDS and asthma. So why should we even bother recognizing their existense, or even a state? Great mentality guys, that will work really well with the rest of the world.

 

The US is stupid for being biased in Israel's favour in the conflict, but there's much more to it, as i displayed above.

Edited June 17, 2008 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

Oh yeah, what is Obamas and McCain's opinion about the opressed Kurds and Assyrians in the region? I don't see Yuusha being angry about their situation.

[Yuusha]

@Messhugger:

 

The following is an explanation by Avigail Abarbanel. She is a former citizen of Israel and a psychotherapist in private practice in Canberra Australia. She can be reached at avigail@netspace.net.au.

 

Make of it what you will.

 

Growing up as an Israeli provided me with an intimate understanding of Israeli-Jewish psychology. Ever since I can remember, we in Israel were told that Jews have nowhere else to go because the world didn

[Walsingham]

If talking to a hostile audience, Yuush, you'd do better to cut things down. You also ignored the question about the Kurds and Assyrians. Or, for that matter the non-Muslims in Sudan and Northern Africa.

 

1. "Growing up as an Israeli provided me with an intimate understanding of Israeli-Jewish psychology" Brrrrraaaap! Fail!

 

2. "Israel was not born in 1948 or because of the Holocaust" Oh, really. Extraordinary. So I suppose having more than five million Jews turned to ash merely served as reminder about the whole 'next year in Jerusalem' thing? It wasn't significant in and of itself.

[Meshugger]

Yuusha, you haven't answered my question yet, please do.

 

Also, do not link to personal stories by people not in the field of history. For example, that article makes the claim that jews by culture can't have non-jewish friends, which is rubbish. My superior officer in the military was a jew and had mostly non-jewish friends, since there are so little of them here. Anyhoo, what does that prove? That your source is wrong? Not really, the source might believe it and so might her father have done, but it doesn't make it a universal law.

 

My sources come from encyclopedia brittanica, finnish history books, and alike. I would like you to provide similar so we can have a sound argument. You're not claiming that all the major history books have a pro-zionist bias, do you?

Edited June 17, 2008 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

To keep this on-topic, i tried to find any references on Obama and McCain on Kurds and Assyrians but to no avail

Edited June 17, 2008 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

Look what i found. A Pro-Palestinian Lobby-group working in Washington D.C. Does this mean that the Palestinialists are influencing american politics?

 

Granted, they are probably not as big as AIPAC. But do you Yuusha know why? Because they lack the organization skills, and most and for all: Money.

[Walsingham]

Look what i found. A Pro-Palestinian Lobby-group working in Washington D.C. Does this mean that the Palestinialists are influencing american politics?

 

Granted, they are probably not as big as AIPAC. But do you Yuusha know why? Because they lack the organization skills, and most and for all: Money.

 

Which might be odd, you know, if you consider how rich several Arab states are. Unless, you know, they don't particularly like the Palestinians or want to help them. And that angle is one I got from someone who grew up as an Arab, and therefore is an infallible source.

[Meshugger]

Look what i found. A Pro-Palestinian Lobby-group working in Washington D.C. Does this mean that the Palestinialists are influencing american politics?

 

Granted, they are probably not as big as AIPAC. But do you Yuusha know why? Because they lack the organization skills, and most and for all: Money.

 

Which might be odd, you know, if you consider how rich several Arab states are. Unless, you know, they don't particularly like the Palestinians or want to help them. And that angle is one I got from someone who grew up as an Arab, and therefore is an infallible source.

 

It is no secret that the Palestinians are used by the arabs as pawns in their game of chess with the Israelis.

[kYLa21]

[Meshugger]

^Who are you referring to really? Are you maybe a bot that posts automatic answers to every board?

 

Your writing is just filled with the very same empty rhetoric that you are propagating against yourself.

 

Here's an interesting article on the tactics that might be used in the following months.

 

"Either you are, or you aren't", i see some truth in what people percieve in Obama and McCain in that statement.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Meshugger

[kYLa21]

no im not a bot that you think...

[Xard]

Here's an interesting article on the tactics that might be used in the following months.

 

[Meshugger]

no im not a bot that you think...

 

Then who of these YouT00bians are you referring to? Who here has claimed that the republicans wants to go back to slavery. Who hasn't raised the question that Obama's message of hope might also be his Damocles-sword?

 

Here's a suggestion: Compare the promises of which Bush jr had in 1999/2000, and how many of them went through and how many dissappeared as "empty rhetoric". Do the same with Clinton and Bush Sr. What has changed? And more importantly, what HASN'T changed in terms of policy and govermental power.

 

These three presidents all had different backgrounds, different personal philosophies and manners. What did they change? What did they not? How much is Status Quo since Reagan, and if those policies, practicies and laws that still were, then go further back.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Meshugger

[Walsingham]

Here's an interesting article on the tactics that might be used in the following months.

 

 

Ditto that. I'm afraid I find that cartoon bloody offensive. The man was tortured so badly he's permanently lost movement in his arms. Show a bit of common decency.

[Meshugger]

Here's an interesting article on the tactics that might be used in the following months.

 

 

Ditto that. I'm afraid I find that cartoon bloody offensive. The man was tortured so badly he's permanently lost movement in his arms. Show a bit of common decency.

 

Phah, every newspaper (atleast where i live) have similar cartoons on respective candidates, local and for presidential elections. And since when has decency been a paragorn in politics of this level. I hope that i didn't distract you from reading it, the guy follows the election candidates from a grassroot level, checking them out at almost every public meeting.

 

Do you find this one offensive as well?

 

Edited June 18, 2008 by Meshugger

[Walsingham]

Here's an interesting article on the tactics that might be used in the following months.

 

 

Ditto that. I'm afraid I find that cartoon bloody offensive. The man was tortured so badly he's permanently lost movement in his arms. Show a bit of common decency.

 

Phah, every newspaper (atleast where i live) have similar cartoons on respective candidates, local and for presidential elections. And since when has decency been a paragorn in politics of this level. I hope that i didn't distract you from reading it, the guy follows the election candidates from a grassroot level, checking them out at almost every public meeting.

 

Do you find this one offensive as well?

 

 

Not really. Maybe I'm missing something. Surely there are limits, tho. I mean, what if a candidate had had a kid die of cancer or something? Would it be cool to mock that?

[Laozi]

no im not a bot that you think...

 

 

 

but thats what a bot would say, oh no we have a conundrum

[Walsingham]

I not sure I like the xenophobic undertones, but you can't deny he sounds like he can get movement on Green issues.

 

New McCain advisor.

[walkerguy]

Since its now down to Obama vs. McCain:

 

GO OBAMA!

 

CNN 2008 Election Center

 

Presumptive Nominees

[Walsingham]

I not sure I like the xenophobic undertones, but you can't deny he sounds like he can get movement on Green issues.

 

New McCain advisor.

 

LOL "not sure I like". I don't like them, but being a weedy pohm I can't say so.