Baldur's Gate

[flem]

I've been sick and home-ridden, so I've been marathoning. Currently nearing the end of Throne of Bhaal with Sarevok, Minsc, Viconia, Edwin and Irenicus (Longer Road mod). SCS2's Improved Invisibility/Shadow Door + Immunity: Abjuration/Divination combo is really ticking me off, since there's no way at all to actually attack or dispel the mage for a good 10 rounds while he/she is free to dish out Horrid Wiltings and whatever. Still, more challenging and definitely smarter thieves/fighters.

What, the classic Glitterdust counter doesn't work?

[Humodour]

Every time I play ToB it gets me how barren the game is, it really would have been nice to have it as a proper part of the trilogy - expanding Amkethran and Saradush to even half the size of Athkatla, or even adding in a big Tethyrian city. As it is all the dungeoning does get a bit repetitive.

Yes, half-assed comes to mind. But it *is* just an expansion after all...

 

You can't target an improved invisible creature, so you can't remove their immunity, I believe that's the problem? True Sight?

 

Anyway, ToB was originally meant to be BG3, but they seem to have just gave up and did a half-assed Xpack instead. That's why I installed Ascension - hoping it'd add a bit of life. But as it stands I'm struggling to find purpose to continue BG2 normal - it's all just too easy... but more than that, it really is boring. Maybe I've just played chapter 2 way too much. Yea, I'll go to spellhold and sort things out.

[Tigranes]

True Sight < Spell Immunity: Divination. Or at least, that's what I've found. Purge Invisibility, Oracle, Dispel Magic, True Sight, etc, etc, no dice.

 

You can see why it's a good decision in group vs. group battles though, because your characters are so powerful, once the mages do become visible/targetable they can die in as soon as 2 rounds (two mages. Spellstrike / Greater Malison, Finger of Death). It makes sure that the mages are actually effective and cause a lot of havoc when you're fighting off fighters, etc. But when you're just fighting one mage, well, it's a lot of "RUN"

 

The Longer Road mod decided that the Evil Irenicus will take the soul of Balthazar and fashion himself alive again, and Minsc didn't like it, going hostile and letting rip on my party. Not too pleased because I dont' think I really got a fair shot at persuading him to wait until the end for another solution (I think one or two talks were left out due to bugginess). Wondering now whether to fiddle around with global variables and try and reverse it, go without Minsc or just abandon it altogether - I never really enjoyed the Melissan battle, anyway.

 

Man, forget Icewind Gate II, someone should convert Torment into the BG2 engine. Probably way too hard, but mmm.

[Humodour]

I wouldn't want to see Torment converted to the BG2 engine. For starters the round lengths are different (which I think is hard-coded). But also, what would it accomplish?

 

Heck, I prefer bare IWD1 without HoW, too. I don't think HoW adds to the game - I dislike the new BG2 avatars, I think the Xpack transition is disjointed and incongruous with the OC, and I don't like HoW's idea of "randomly throw a bunch of mundane +4 weapons in the Kuldahar shop". Maybe I should stare intensely at Sawyer for that.

 

That guy has a point, though - Glitterdust probably would have worked.

[Tigranes]

Oh, I was thinking about playing Torment next at some point, and it just came to me. There are so many reasons that an actual project would be fruitless (yeah, round lengths, etc), of course. Not practical.

 

Glitterdust, huh? I always forget about that spell. It's one of those that I just never end up using. Probably would've.

[Tale]

Every time I play ToB it gets me how barren the game is, it really would have been nice to have it as a proper part of the trilogy - expanding Amkethran and Saradush to even half the size of Athkatla, or even adding in a big Tethyrian city. As it is all the dungeoning does get a bit repetitive.

Yes, half-assed comes to mind. But it *is* just an expansion after all...

 

You can't target an improved invisible creature, so you can't remove their immunity, I believe that's the problem? True Sight?

 

Anyway, ToB was originally meant to be BG3, but they seem to have just gave up and did a half-assed Xpack instead. That's why I installed Ascension - hoping it'd add a bit of life. But as it stands I'm struggling to find purpose to continue BG2 normal - it's all just too easy... but more than that, it really is boring. Maybe I've just played chapter 2 way too much. Yea, I'll go to spellhold and sort things out.

Wild Mage

 

Wiiiiiillllld.... Mage

 

See how easy a time of it you have when, right in the midst of a battle, your Mage casts fireball x2 on your party.

[Jorian Drake]

Every time I play ToB it gets me how barren the game is, it really would have been nice to have it as a proper part of the trilogy - expanding Amkethran and Saradush to even half the size of Athkatla, or even adding in a big Tethyrian city. As it is all the dungeoning does get a bit repetitive.

Yes, half-assed comes to mind. But it *is* just an expansion after all...

 

You can't target an improved invisible creature, so you can't remove their immunity, I believe that's the problem? True Sight?

 

Anyway, ToB was originally meant to be BG3, but they seem to have just gave up and did a half-assed Xpack instead. That's why I installed Ascension - hoping it'd add a bit of life. But as it stands I'm struggling to find purpose to continue BG2 normal - it's all just too easy... but more than that, it really is boring. Maybe I've just played chapter 2 way too much. Yea, I'll go to spellhold and sort things out.

Wild Mage

 

Wiiiiiillllld.... Mage

 

See how easy a time of it you have when, right in the midst of a battle, your Mage casts fireball x2 on your party.

Tale, you take your 'job' as Max a bit too seriously!

[random n00b]

You can't target an improved invisible creature, so you can't remove their immunity, I believe that's the problem? True Sight?

With SCSII, that's not the case anymore, as Spellstrike (and possibly Ruby Ray, etc as well) is now area-based instead of target-based.

 

No more win button for the AI.

 

 

The Longer Road mod decided that the Evil Irenicus will take the soul of Balthazar and fashion himself alive again, and Minsc didn't like it, going hostile and letting rip on my party. Not too pleased because I dont' think I really got a fair shot at persuading him to wait until the end for another solution (I think one or two talks were left out due to bugginess). Wondering now whether to fiddle around with global variables and try and reverse it, go without Minsc or just abandon it altogether - I never really enjoyed the Melissan battle, anyway.

Chances are the mod didn't "decide" anything, you did. I don't know if you were aiming for Irenicus' "good" ending, but it's 100% dependant on player choices how he acts regarding his bargain with the PC.

 

And with Jaheira it's even worse - she can *smell* whether Irenicus will give up on being an evil SOB or not, even before he actually gets to do anything!

[Tigranes]

With SCSII, that's not the case anymore, as Spellstrike (and possibly Ruby Ray, etc as well) is now area-based instead of target-based. brows.gif

 

No more win button for the AI.

 

I read that in the descriptions, but never really noticed it happening. I'll have to try that again if I go back to my game.

 

The real problem with SCSII has been that it's made BG2 lag. My machine is pretty crap but it used to be able to handle BG2 fine - with SCS2, I think it's the scripts, every time some monsters / NPCs spawn in an area the game hangs for a few seconds. I may have to give up on the mod, though I enjoy what it does.

 

Chances are the mod didn't "decide" anything, you did. I don't know if you were aiming for Irenicus' "good" ending, but it's 100% dependant on player choices how he acts regarding his bargain with the PC.

 

Certainly. The mod is written very well in general, I thought, because while there *are* 'Paladin Good' options (smite evil!), the dialogue is generally complex and not always obvious as to how irenicus will respond. I probably had Irenicus insisting on the Bhaalspawn souls because I was hesitating between wanting to see him stick it out to the end, and my Lawful Evil protagonist personality - and in the end I suppose he decided that I didn't do enough to convince him. I was just thinking that there was a sort of gap between two 'Talks' that made me think, was this just the writing, or did I miss something? After all, BG2 companion talks are notorious for skipping, stopping, being stuck in the same talk, etc (Jaheira Lovetalk for instance).

 

It's a good mod and I think I'll try it later on with a Good character. The only gripe I have is that the personality of the writer(s) slips through sometimes. I understand the primary contributor is Dorotea, whose Bitter Grey Ashes I have read some of - and you sometimes get her kind of 'pastoral' tone in the PC's options which I didn't always appreciate, and Irenicus sometimes tends to talk like a snarky internet forum personality (sort of like a badly written Edwin). Heh. But the quality is overall very nice.

 

And with Jaheira it's even worse - she can *smell* whether Irenicus will give up on being an evil SOB or not, even before he actually gets to do anything!

 

Never liked Jaheira much. Gameplay-wise Fighter/Druid is not something I appreciate (esp. since if she is your only priest character, she loses some of the heal/buff spells), and character-wise she just nags a lot. But yeah, with Minsc going berserk I was wondering how the likes of her and Keldorn might have reacted.

[Tale]

Dang this thread. Dang it to heck. Makes me want to replay Baldur's Gate. And by "want to" I mean "installing now."

 

I also almost bought a new copy of BGII+TOB for $10 from half-price books, just for a backup.

 

Edit: I think I'd actually rather play Neverwinter Nights 2, but this temporary graphics card is terrible.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Tale

[Humodour]

Every time I play ToB it gets me how barren the game is, it really would have been nice to have it as a proper part of the trilogy - expanding Amkethran and Saradush to even half the size of Athkatla, or even adding in a big Tethyrian city. As it is all the dungeoning does get a bit repetitive.

Yes, half-assed comes to mind. But it *is* just an expansion after all...

 

You can't target an improved invisible creature, so you can't remove their immunity, I believe that's the problem? True Sight?

 

Anyway, ToB was originally meant to be BG3, but they seem to have just gave up and did a half-assed Xpack instead. That's why I installed Ascension - hoping it'd add a bit of life. But as it stands I'm struggling to find purpose to continue BG2 normal - it's all just too easy... but more than that, it really is boring. Maybe I've just played chapter 2 way too much. Yea, I'll go to spellhold and sort things out.

Wild Mage

 

Wiiiiiillllld.... Mage

 

See how easy a time of it you have when, right in the midst of a battle, your Mage casts fireball x2 on your party.

 

Haha. Last guy I had was a wild mage. They are actually very fun! About as powerful as a sorc too (moreso even) because of Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. I was casting level 8 spells mostly successfully (or at least casting fireball on the enemies or haste on the party instead) and I was only level 9 or so.

 

Tigranes: Oh? Fighter/Druid is one of the most powerful classes. If you can get past her character she's one of the strongest NPCs (which isn't saying much I know, since Bioware made some crappy NPCs and classes for them).

 

Best things about the IE games by far is two IWD1 spells: Malavon's Rage and Mordenkainen's Sword. Feeling bored? Run into a mob and cast Malavon's Rage and watch them chunk to bits. Feeling flighty? Whip out Mordenkainen's Sword and deal 5-30 damage AT RANGE. If you're a fighter/mage you also get the extra attacks per round. Hahaha. God I had fun with that. It's like +3, too. Man IWD1 in general was an awesome combat game and all-round fantasy adventure.

 

Edit: That said there was some pretty damn fun Torment spells which elude me right now.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Krezack

[Tale]

I always have fun when I do a color spray on Minsc (and the rest of my party) when I meant to hit the lizard he's thwacking with a magic missle.

 

Edit: I can't be the only person who likes Jaheira. She never really seemed to be nagging to me. She also has a very good sidequest. Maybe the best companion quest.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Tale

[flem]

True Sight < Spell Immunity: Divination. Or at least, that's what I've found. Purge Invisibility, Oracle, Dispel Magic, True Sight, etc, etc, no dice.

Again: Glitterdust.

[random n00b]

I read that in the descriptions, but never really noticed it happening. I'll have to try that again if I go back to my game.

It's a distinct component, so it's possible you didn't install it.

 

 

The real problem with SCSII has been that it's made BG2 lag. My machine is pretty crap but it used to be able to handle BG2 fine - with SCS2, I think it's the scripts, every time some monsters / NPCs spawn in an area the game hangs for a few seconds. I may have to give up on the mod, though I enjoy what it does.

Yep, it lags for me too, and I can run Crysis... I don't think the engine was designed to deal with that kind of scripting. But to me it's definitely worth the trade-off.

 

 

Certainly. The mod is written very well in general, I thought, because while there *are* 'Paladin Good' options (smite evil!), the dialogue is generally complex and not always obvious as to how irenicus will respond. I probably had Irenicus insisting on the Bhaalspawn souls because I was hesitating between wanting to see him stick it out to the end, and my Lawful Evil protagonist personality - and in the end I suppose he decided that I didn't do enough to convince him. I was just thinking that there was a sort of gap between two 'Talks' that made me think, was this just the writing, or did I miss something? After all, BG2 companion talks are notorious for skipping, stopping, being stuck in the same talk, etc (Jaheira Lovetalk for instance).

 

It's a good mod and I think I'll try it later on with a Good character. The only gripe I have is that the personality of the writer(s) slips through sometimes. I understand the primary contributor is Dorotea, whose Bitter Grey Ashes I have read some of - and you sometimes get her kind of 'pastoral' tone in the PC's options which I didn't always appreciate, and Irenicus sometimes tends to talk like a snarky internet forum personality (sort of like a badly written Edwin). Heh. But the quality is overall very nice.

Honestly, I could never get into fanfic (of an kind), but I have a feeling I wouldn't like it, based on the mod. While I liked how Irenicus' personality was treated, I didn't like the dialogues much.

 

The mod is great for one thing, though. Depending on player actions, there are some 4-5 different endings for Irenicus, some of them pretty grim (and not necessarily for Irenicus!). Also, his reactions are heavily affected by how the player deals with some in-game events whose relation to Irenicus isn't apparent. If he chose to take Balth's soul, it's possible you missed out (or botched) one of these. Notably, if you did Watcher's Keep during SoA, swaying Irenicus' ways is unfortunately no longer possible. But taking a soul is a perfectly acceptable solution for an evil party, I think. In my opinion the mod aced that aspect, in that he seems much more alive and free than any other vanilla NPC, despite his circumstances. His long-winded tirades and the dialogue music they chose however, were a bit grating on my nerves.

 

 

Never liked Jaheira much. Gameplay-wise Fighter/Druid is not something I appreciate (esp. since if she is your only priest character, she loses some of the heal/buff spells), and character-wise she just nags a lot. But yeah, with Minsc going berserk I was wondering how the likes of her and Keldorn might have reacted.

I agree with Tale. I used to think like you, until I got the fixes to her romance and took her all the way to ToB. She's a fairly competent offensive caster, and as a character, she's more credible and less silly than most others... Finding good weapons for her in the endgame is difficult, though.

[Tale]

Finding good weapons for her in the endgame is difficult, though.

Oh yes! HAHAHA. It's absolutely atrocious finding a weapon for her. Unless you like +4 quarterstaffs.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Tale

[Spider]

Edit: I can't be the only person who likes Jaheira. She never really seemed to be nagging to me. She also has a very good sidequest. Maybe the best companion quest.

 

I really like her. Probably my favorite character in BG2. Well written and a very interesting side quest. She was a lot worse in BG1 though.

[Hell Kitty]

Edit: I can't be the only person who likes Jaheira. She never really seemed to be nagging to me. She also has a very good sidequest. Maybe the best companion quest.

 

I really like her. Probably my favorite character in BG2. Well written and a very interesting side quest.

 

I feel he same way. We must be triplets! It's the only explanation.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Hell Kitty

[Tigranes]

Yep, it lags for me too, and I can run Crysis... I don't think the engine was designed to deal with that kind of scripting. But to me it's definitely worth the trade-off.

 

Ah, so it's not just me! I can deal with a lot of lag (like, uh, playing all of NWN2 at 5OC), but the game hanging for 10-20 seconds every time an enemy spawns, every time a contingency fires or at random spots during the battles - well, not exactly my thing. Also, I really appreciated most of the changes SCS2 made, especially with the thieves who actually have invis. potions now, but the invisible mages were really getting me (as well as being the chief source of lag). We'll see, next time. It's still a very good mod, yes. Much better than Cheesetactics.

 

Honestly, I could never get into fanfic (of an kind), but I have a feeling I wouldn't like it, based on the mod. While I liked how Irenicus' personality was treated, I didn't like the dialogues much.

 

BG2 is just about the only thing where I enjoyed some of the fanfics, back when I was in high school, anyway. I don't think I can bear them anymore. I do find that fanfic / character mods which deal with exisitng characters, like longer road or banterpack, are much better than ones that create new NPCs, which tend to come with atrocious, out-of-place Fantasy portraits, bad quality voiceovers that sound like rusty frying pans on a blackboard and inconsistent writing.

 

The mod is great for one thing, though. Depending on player actions, there are some 4-5 different endings for Irenicus, some of them pretty grim (and not necessarily for Irenicus!). Also, his reactions are heavily affected by how the player deals with some in-game events whose relation to Irenicus isn't apparent. If he chose to take Balth's soul, it's possible you missed out (or botched) one of these. Notably, if you did Watcher's Keep during SoA, swaying Irenicus' ways is unfortunately no longer possible. But taking a soul is a perfectly acceptable solution for an evil party, I think. In my opinion the mod aced that aspect, in that he seems much more alive and free than any other vanilla NPC, despite his circumstances. His long-winded tirades and the dialogue music they chose however, were a bit grating on my nerves.

 

He wanted Abazigal's, and I had to guarantee him Balthazar's to ensure that he didn't do it then and there. When that dialogue ended, Irenicus did say he reserved the right to be persuaded to leave all souls until the end, and implied that I would have a chance to give one last shot at it. I did not, and that's where I thought there might have been some skipped talks.

 

I did do Watcher's Keep in TOB, and did the Deva quest - an interesting conundrum, I ended up picking the merge beings option (I would have let them decide, actually, but there was no such option). I was not quite sure what Irenicus thought of it, though, but yes, he is very clever. WHen I tried to leave him out of hte party for the Balthazar combat, he picked up on it and made a snide comment!

 

The music was crap, yes. But that's what happens with fan mods.

 

I agree with Tale. I used to think like you, until I got the fixes to her romance and took her all the way to ToB. She's a fairly competent offensive caster, and as a character, she's more credible and less silly than most others... Finding good weapons for her in the endgame is difficult, though.

 

I won't pretend that I am a D&D guru of any sort, but I found that due to the shortness of weapons, she was never dealing that much damage or able to soak up a lot. Shapechanging becomes not as effective in higher levels, and she was quickly relegated to a back-line spellcaster - for which Viconia, etc. are superior. I am sure it's me doing something wrong though. As for her personality, I do agree that she has a fantastic companion quest, and she is level-headed; looking back I guess it's just a case of me becoming jaded with Jaheira. I must have completed the game at least 10 times with her in the party.

 

Still not sick of Minsc and Edwin, though.

[random n00b]

Ah, so it's not just me! I can deal with a lot of lag (like, uh, playing all of NWN2 at 5OC), but the game hanging for 10-20 seconds every time an enemy spawns, every time a contingency fires or at random spots during the battles - well, not exactly my thing.

10-20 seconds lag?

 

That's insane. I suffer about 2-3 seconds lag tops at the start of combat when triggers/contingencies are going off. I bow before your superior lag tolerance.

 

 

He wanted Abazigal's, and I had to guarantee him Balthazar's to ensure that he didn't do it then and there. When that dialogue ended, Irenicus did say he reserved the right to be persuaded to leave all souls until the end, and implied that I would have a chance to give one last shot at it. I did not, and that's where I thought there might have been some skipped talks.

There are three things that, as far as I know, are involved in swaying him. One is the deva quest, which apparently you solved successfully (for this purpose at least, keeping the essence for yourself has its own benefits). The second is the business with Vongoethe, the lich at Amkethran. If you fail to save Marlowe and/or the girl, Irenicus will be impressed, in the wrong way. The last thing is listening to his psycho ramblings. There is one conversation involving Ellesime and Suldanessellar that you must complete in order to have him reflect on his ways. I believe this comes after you revive the dream from Chapter 6.

 

I am not sure if being of evil alignment could interfere with the process, however. When I played evil characters, I never tried redeeming him.

 

 

I won't pretend that I am a D&D guru of any sort, but I found that due to the shortness of weapons, she was never dealing that much damage or able to soak up a lot. Shapechanging becomes not as effective in higher levels, and she was quickly relegated to a back-line spellcaster - for which Viconia, etc. are superior.

Viconia is a great backup caster, but she's not quite as good at the offensive. Ironskin, Conjure Animals, Blade Barrier, Righteous Magic, Heal(!), etc make Jaheira pretty formidable in CQ. Throw in Fighter HLAs and one of those giant strength girdles, and she's a monster. The problem is, again, finding a suitable weapon, and the amount of micromanagement she needs in a fight compared to "fire and forget" regular tanks. I think her versatility is her strong point.

[Moatilliatta]

Edit: I can't be the only person who likes Jaheira. She never really seemed to be nagging to me. She also has a very good sidequest. Maybe the best companion quest.

 

I really like her. Probably my favorite character in BG2. Well written and a very interesting side quest.

 

I feel he same way. We must be triplets! It's the only explanation.

Quadruplets! One of the reasons why I keep trekking through Bioware romances is that I'm hoping that I'll find something of equal quality.

[Xard]

Don't worry guys, I'm in here to assure you're nutjobs

 

Jaheira sucks

[Tale]

*is assured*

[Musopticon?]

Jaheira is the single most useful BG2 npc. Period. Tanks dish out and take more damage, Viconia and Cernd are a superior casters, but there's no one else with such versatility.

 

I hate to say this, since they were awful in BG1, but with Imoen and Jaheira in my party, all the necessary roles in a dnd party are already filled and I can just pick whatever stray straddlers I want to. Therefore, I always take them both. If I hate to hear about Jaheira's obsession with me on that particular walkthrough, I'll just pick female in character creation.

[Tale]

Heh, Viconia does kind of piss me off as my Cleric. Every single time I play, without fail, her low strength score will catch my by surprise.

[Musopticon?]

But but...Drow sex!