Drones don't have to be able to mate with queens. We've seen no reason to indicate they undergo that process. The closest to mating we've seen is egg->host. We've also seen one other method, but that would be a spoiler from the new movie.

 

They're quite likely (and ideally in my opinion) all ungendered. With the exception being the queen having a gender defined by the fact she lays eggs.

 

It's an entirely different lifeform, unlike anything else seen.

Edited December 28, 200718 yr by Tale

For those just tuning in, we're discussing alien evolution by way of determining how to hurt them, smash them to GOO!

 

Anyway, I see what you mean about random mutation generating values above and below the existing species norm. Understood that before.

 

I still have to argue satisficing. Yes, you can say it's a form of optimisation if you're a computer scientist, but then I'll just wait till afterwards and peanut your tie. The real point is that it's about whether there is a 'minimum standard', yes? I say there is. If you get killed before you can breed then YOU LOSE!

I hardly consider the manure going under the name of AVP to be a source of Alien cannon. Aligators are born/created ungendered as well, it's the temperature and their location in the nest that decide if they turn out male or female.

 

Non sexual reproduction is a possibility, but why pass on a chance of some Alien porn.

Edited December 28, 200718 yr by Gorgon

Well, I think in this context the fitness of a xenomorph can best be defined as not getting shot in the groin by a pulse rifle.

For those just tuning in, we're discussing alien evolution by way of determining how to hurt them, smash them to GOO!

 

Anyway, I see what you mean about random mutation generating values above and below the existing species norm. Understood that before.

 

I still have to argue satisficing. Yes, you can say it's a form of optimisation if you're a computer scientist, but then I'll just wait till afterwards and peanut your tie. The real point is that it's about whether there is a 'minimum standard', yes? I say there is. If you get killed before you can breed then YOU LOSE!

 

Haha. What I meant was that optimisation used in neural nets is the same form as that used in evolution, so if it's optimisation for one, it is for the other. Anyway, nothing restricts optimisation from having min/max standards or multiple variables. Satisficing is just some silly term an economist made up before he'd heard of genetic algorithms I reckon! I mean c'mon is sounds as retarded as 'normalcy'.

 

Yeah, think of the alien as a virus. The virus enters the host, then uses it to create copies of itself in a safe environment, then bursts out of the cell. Non-sexual reproduction.

Understood re: virus.

 

Satisficing is a term from social psychology, although it's been too long since i studied it to remember who came up with it. Probably Irving Janis. It refers to the problem solving behaviour of committees. they do not discuss to achieve the optimal solution. They baffle about until a workable solution is presented, then seize upon it, resisting attempts to improve. then they go to the pub. If they have any sense.

Understood re: virus.

 

Satisficing is a term from social psychology, although it's been too long since i studied it to remember who came up with it. Probably Irving Janis. It refers to the problem solving behaviour of committees. they do not discuss to achieve the optimal solution. They baffle about until a workable solution is presented, then seize upon it, resisting attempts to improve. then they go to the pub. If they have any sense.

 

Oh, the virus thing was me agreeing with Tale.

 

Sounds like my group of friends from High School. We'd always end up in a group or 10 or so and it'd take so long to decide on anything that we'd eventually settle for a crappy choice and assault anybody who continued to try and negotiate for something else. Typically occurred with what movie to watch and where to get drunk.

I wouldn't say anything about certainty in regards to it. It's pretty much ambiguous. No movie has really gone on to elaborate on other alien species within the setting. No movie or game even. I doubt the comics have, either. Arcturians could just be a human off-shoot or genetically engineered. The dialogue in Aliens heavily implies (to the point where it is more than a reasonable certainty) that they have encountered other alien species, but nothing that's positively sentient/intelligent. And if it wasn't for the single exchange in regards to Arcturians, we'd have no reason to think otherwise.

The requirements for sentience are pretty low, and I have a hard time believing that the USCMC would need "bug stompers" if encountered Alien lifeforms weren't sentient.

I wouldn't say anything about certainty in regards to it. It's pretty much ambiguous. No movie has really gone on to elaborate on other alien species within the setting. No movie or game even. I doubt the comics have, either. Arcturians could just be a human off-shoot or genetically engineered. The dialogue in Aliens heavily implies (to the point where it is more than a reasonable certainty) that they have encountered other alien species, but nothing that's positively sentient/intelligent. And if it wasn't for the single exchange in regards to Arcturians, we'd have no reason to think otherwise.

The requirements for sentience are pretty low, and I have a hard time believing that the USCMC would need "bug stompers" if encountered Alien lifeforms weren't sentient.

 

Speaking of combat, what's the call for friendly fire?

Yes, oh God, yes.

Enjoy the pain!

 

I just remembered how much I've missed being shot in the back by Ian. With friends like these, who needs enemies? Friendly fire is definitely part of life (and should be a factor in a tactical combat situation).

Enjoy the pain!

 

I just remembered how much I've missed being shot in the back by Ian. With friends like these, who needs enemies? Friendly fire is definitely part of life (and should be a factor in a tactical combat situation).

 

It certainly provides a reason not to have too many friends.

 

I often heavily considered friendly fire in both combat situations and when selecting NPCs to take. For example - can the NPC control their spray? Marcus often can't and it wouldn't be a surprise to see Sulik launch a spray into your chest because you're in front of an ant. So then the question was - are they useful without burst? Marcus can be turned into an energy weapon user or a puncher, Sulik can become a melee user. But if you don't have many NPCs in the first place, Sulik can probably use and SMG and only force a reload every hour or two, which is acceptable if you save.

 

I enjoy that type of strategising. Removing death (as in KOTOR/NWN) kind of destroys the purpose of strategy and planning in combat.

I wouldn't say anything about certainty in regards to it. It's pretty much ambiguous. No movie has really gone on to elaborate on other alien species within the setting. No movie or game even. I doubt the comics have, either. Arcturians could just be a human off-shoot or genetically engineered. The dialogue in Aliens heavily implies (to the point where it is more than a reasonable certainty) that they have encountered other alien species, but nothing that's positively sentient/intelligent. And if it wasn't for the single exchange in regards to Arcturians, we'd have no reason to think otherwise.

The requirements for sentience are pretty low, and I have a hard time believing that the USCMC would need "bug stompers" if encountered Alien lifeforms weren't sentient.

 

Some kind of bugs, for sure...but bugs after all. And for what we know, not much. Frost dindt know the meaning of xenomorph. It Seems that the Colonail Marines dindt have much work in that way.

 

Arcturians are humas genetically engineered for sure, but not an alien race.

Yeah, but that goes back to what I wrote before: I think that humans had encountered alien lifeforms in the universe that were enough of a threat to require military intervention (which would imply a certain level of basic awareness/sentience for the "bugs"), but nothing that was anywhere near as deadly as "the" Aliens.

Yeah, I was misusing sentience. *squints*

Ash states that in the first movie that the Alien is more important than the crew's lives because it is a scientific discovery. The idea is that it's the first Alien lifeform humans have encountered.

I've actually thought about this a lot. After watching both Alien and Aliens (which are 57 years apart), I have to assume that while "the" Alien race is very important because of its extraordinary lethality and terrible reproduction methods, other alien species have been discovered by humans. During the mess scene in Aliens, the Marines talk about Frost getting some "Arcturian poontang" with some jokes about their (presumably) hermaphroditic anatomy. Also, the Marines are constantly talking about "bug hunts" and there's the whole "Bug Stomper" logo. In the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, they also talk about other alien lifeforms, referred to as "bee bops".

 

I don't know if humans had encountered sapient alien life, but they certainly have encountered sentient alien life.

 

The bug stomper thing, is just a homage to Starship Troopers. I remember seeing an interview with Cameron or someone that worked on the film, where they said something along those lines. Lee Brommicombe-wood in the CMT manual, just got the wrong end of the stick and embellished a few of the marine stories, apart from that though his book is pretty spot on in my opinion.

 

Killing bugs / aliens isn

The contact with the alien in Scotts film is possibly the very first contact with either a sapient or sentient alien life form. When Dallas team encounter the derelict it is obvious that at least these well travelled crew have never even heard about any previous contact with other alien life forms.

Again, I think there's a big difference between encountering mostly or entirely harmless sentient but not sapient life and something like the Space Jockey derelict, which is obviously the product of a highly sapient race with space travel capabilities. If all humans had encountered before the Aliens and Space Jockeys were the extrerrestrial equivalent of turtles and kittens, the terror of the Aliens is just as effective.

 

I don't think that dealing with lowercase-a-aliens was something typical for the USCMC, but regardless of whether or not Cameron was using it as a ST homage, I think it's a huge stretch to say that all of the bug hunt/Bug Stomper stuff actually exists in spite of never making any contact with hostile aliens before in the universe.

They also make mention of going on a number of wild goose chases. Is it possible that a "bug hunt" is just a snipe hunt?

 

It's definitely not obvious if that's what it is. So I'm inclined to agree with you.

Edited January 10, 200818 yr by Tale

Okay, there

Well, bugs or not, I'd certainly like to know more about/see more of the Pilots.

 

In the bonus materials of the special edition Alien DVD, director Ridley Scott has expressed the opinion that a film exploring the backstory of the Space Jockey would be an interesting new direction for the series to take.

 

It should also be noted that despite later rewrites and storylines, Giger and O'Bannon designed the Pilot so that it appeared to be a sympathetic and friendly lifeform.

 

Little or nothing is known of this race. The principal theory of their connection to the Xenomorphs, which was mentioned briefly by Ridley Scott in his director's commentary for the first Alien DVD, is that the Jockey's ship was a "bomber" and that they used them as biogenic weapons to fight an ancient war.

 

A lesser-known history of the Space Jockey's race comes from an older source than the DVDs. According to "The Alien Portfolio" by John Mollo and Ron Cobb, Cobb tells of Alien creator Dan O'Bannon's backstory where the Jockey's race had simply landed on the planet on a course of exploration and had encountered the eggs there. Since the planet was dying, and they didn't realize how dangerous the eggs were, they loaded their cargo hold with the eggs and prepared to lift off. Before they were to take off, one of the crew that was parasitized "gave birth" to an alien. The crew eventually killed the alien, but at the cost of hulling their ship. As they were dying out, one of them had set up a transmission warning other ships not to land there and to suffer the same fate.

 

-Wikipedia

Edited January 11, 200818 yr by Krezack

I agree Krezack, that

A tricky one if ya ask me. I

A tricky one if ya ask me. I

A tricky one if ya ask me. I