Girl Commits Suicide Over Internet Prank

[Guest The Architect]

So, all the times you said soemthing really mean to someone on the internet and hurt their feelings you feel you should be charged for manslaughter if they commit suicide? That's silly.

 

True.

 

Do you realise how many manslaughter charges Tale would have if this were the case?

[Calax]

So, all the times you said soemthing really mean to someone on the internet and hurt their feelings you feel you should be charged for manslaughter if they commit suicide? That's silly.

 

True.

 

Do you realise how many manslaughter charges Tale would have if this were the case?

already made this point.

[Sand]

"I am not saying he should be charged for murder but maybe manslaughter,"

 

So, all the times you said soemthing really mean to someone on the internet and hurt their feelings you feel you should be charged for manslaughter if they commit suicide? That's silly.

 

As in poor tatse as the actions were, suicide is a personal choice.; not a forced upon action.

 

This man played a cruel prank on a child, preyed on her insecurities which drove her to suicide. He needs to be held accountable for that.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I disagree, for I believe that a certain amount of "harassing", as long as it is not sexual or contains outright threats, is, as far as I know, perfectly legal under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Gorth]

I disagree, for I believe that a certain amount of "harassing", as long as it is not sexual or contains outright threats, is, as far as I know, perfectly legal under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

I have no idea what is in the mentioned amendment, but does it also allow for lying and deceiving (i.e. pretending to be somebody you are not)?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

I believe that deceiving would be covered, as long as doing so did not break any established laws...

[Hell Kitty]

I just think her parents were (naturally) painting a much rosier picture of her life prior to her suicide.

 

Definitely. It makes sense that they'd rather think of the good stuff over the bad. It's also unlikely the girl shared all her thoughts and problems with them, or even anyone else.

 

As an aside, whats everyones views on suicide? Mortal sin? Cowards way out? While I find it tragic and somewhat selfish I dont have a moral problem with it. Hell, I could even see myself eating a bullet if something horrendous happened like my daughter getting snatched up and killed. Not sure I could live with that guilt.

 

I've never understood why people can be so hostile when talking about those who've committed suicide. Labeling someone so scared to face life they want to die a coward is like calling a rape victim a huge **** or telling an anorexic they ought to lose some weight.

[Gorth]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

I believe that deceiving would be covered, as long as doing so did not break any established laws...

That is some rather cryptic english in there

 

No wonder there is a market for lawyers

 

Anyway, just to clarify my position:

 

Lets say I am an evil old bastard (which I am not really, don't let the member no. fool you), and I decide to play mind games with a child...

 

Most 13 years old I've known suffers from varying degrees of insecurity, sometimes including an abject fear of rejection. I'll bet that in many cases, you could if for whatever reason you may desire so, twist an insecure 13 old around your little finger if you where evil enough, playing the game of bad cop/good cop with yourself. Pretend to be friendly and show acceptance, just to replace it with rejection, rinse and repeat. The effect is the same as training an intelligent animal, if you act nice, you get a cookie, if you act bad, you get a kick. In the case of humans, it creates a sick dependency relationship (see abuse, domestic violence, other similar phenomena). The question I then ask myself is, do I blame an insecure 13 with issues for being an insecure 13 with issues? Or do I blame a manipulative old bastard for enforcing his will on a minor? For me it's similar to rape, doesn't matter if physical force was involved or not.

 

Maybe I am just intolerant when people are deceptive?

 

...

 

That would of course explain my deep-seated dislike of politicians...

[mkreku]

That girl was so broken she would have hanged herself over anything. This time it happened to be a "prank" but she would eventually have done it anyhow, no question. You can't survive for long if you're that fragile.

[Guard Dog]

I have to say I agree with mkreku. And I think that is the first time that has EVER happened.

[Sand]

And people say I lack compassion.

 

So you guys are basically saying that it is perfectly okay to push someone to suicide. That it is our right to do so. That is a very messed up view.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Sand

[Nick_i_am]

Apparently you are unaware that intent is almost always more important than the crime itself.

 

If the intention wasn't actually to make this girl kill herself then your previous statement is pretty much utter Hades, since that isn't what people in this thead are condoning at all.

 

I don't think it's compassion that people say you lack.

[Guard Dog]

And people say I lack compassion.

 

So you guys are basically saying that it is perfectly okay to push someone to suicide. That it is our right to do so. That is a very messed up view.

No what they are saying is it is not illegal to torment someone on the internet so long as you do not threaten, defraud or slander them. What they did was pretty dirty but it does not rise to the level of a crime.

[Sand]

Sorry, but if one's actions cause the suffering or harm of another, intentional or not, that person should be held accountable for their actions.

 

SO, intention is key, eh, Nick. Okay, what if a drunk driving his car, who has no intention of killing anyone on his way home, runs over and kills someone. He had no intention to kill that person he ran over so he shouldn't be charged for vehicular homicide or manslguhter?

Edited November 16, 2007 by Sand

[Guard Dog]

Sorry, but if one's actions cause the suffering or harm of another, intentional or not, that person should be held accountable for their actions.

 

SO, intention is key, eh, Nick. Okay, what if a drunk driving his car, who has no intention of killing anyone on his way home, runs over and kills someone. He had no intention to kill that person he ran over so he shouldn't be charged for vehicular homicide or manslguhter?

 

You would be right if and only if the main cause of the death was the prank. Since she killed herself you must take the girls mental state into account and the argument that she died directly because of the prank does not hold up.

 

In your example the drunk is the sole cause of the death so in that case yes he is responsible.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Guard Dog

[Sand]

However, it did contribute to the suicide. As I said, the man should be held accountable for his actions in the contribution to the suicde of another.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Sand

[Nick_i_am]

SO, intention is key, eh, Nick. Okay, what if a drunk driving his car, who has no intention of killing anyone on his way home, runs over and kills someone. He had no intention to kill that person he ran over so he shouldn't be charged for vehicular homicide or manslguhter?

 

Of course he should, he broke the law and directly killed someone as a result, however, often mitigating circumstances such as level of light can play into a relatively light jail sentence due to the lack of intent. If he had delibrtely run someone over totally different story.

Additionally, he should have been arrested anyway, drunk driving is illegal just because of the increased chance of hurting someone.

 

However, you drive along and someone delibrately jumps out in front of you too fast for you to stop with the intention of dieing, or even just because they're an idiot, is it your fault and should you be arrested? Of course not.

 

Even if we pick a vehicular situation which is remotely similar to the one in question, swerving towards someone with the intent to scare them, followed by accidently hitting and killing them, then the punishment is still only triggered by the fact that the driver was breaking the law with dangerious driving in the first place. The punishment could be harder due to the fact that someone died, but it still doesn't change the fact that the driver was, in the first place, doing somthing that should have gotten them arrested anyway.

 

People have killed themselves over debt, should the banks be responsible?

 

People have killed themselves over being left by a spouce, is the spouce responsible?

 

People have died in wars, should the recrutment agencies be responsible?

 

 

Even ignoring all of this, you havn't even read the article fully. 'The next day more messages appeared from Josh and other people.' 'Megan said she felt like she was under attack from everyone, even from Tina, who was furious her daughter did not do as she was told.'

 

Did this girl kill herself because of one single person? Should the mother also be responsible?

[Hell Kitty]

Okay, what if a drunk driving his car, who has no intention of killing anyone on his way home, runs over and kills someone. He had no intention to kill that person he ran over so he shouldn't be charged for vehicular homicide or manslguhter?

 

The difference there is that the drunk drivers actions were the cause of death. Fake MySpace kid was likely a contributing factor to the girls decision to end her life, but not the cause.

 

I think this kind of stuff is really the straw that broke the camels back, and it would be impossible to find every little thing that lead to the choice she made.

 

I think it's wrong to assume that if she killed herself over this she would have killed herself over anything, because we really don't know what this is. It's a really defeatist attitude. If someone is sad, why bother trying to make them happy, because they're only going to get sad again. Counseling? Nah, it might stop them from killing themselves this time, but they'll do it eventually, right?

 

It's also condescending to assume that if something isn't a big deal to you then it shouldn't be a big deal to other people as well. It's not surprising a depressed teenager isn't going to want to discuss their problems with others if they fear being dismissed.

[Guard Dog]

However, it did contribute to the suicide. As I said, the man should be held accountable for his actions in the contribution to the suicde of another.

 

Sand if say you are not following the logic Nick and I are presenting then you are just being obstinate. You are not a dummy. There is no way you can argue her death was a direct result of the prank. It was a contributing factor to be sure but that does not make it manslaughter.

 

 

Yeah, what Kitty said.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Guard Dog

[Sand]

Fine, I'll stop, but I still think what the man did wrong and he deserves some form of punishment for his action.

[Volourn]

Sand, you are mean to me. If I kill myself (I'm not 'cause I don't go for that); should my family hold you responsible?. or vice versa. I've said mean things to you. If you kill yourself (i hope you don't; I'm not worth it); should I be punished by the law?

[Hurlshort]

I can see where Sand is coming from, this is an adult who knowingly targeted a child, and it ended tragically. While there is no precedent for holding the adult responsible for the suicide, I think there should be a way to discourage anyone from targeting another online and bullying them. Not necessarily criminal proceedings, but some way to discourage this behavior should exist.

[alanschu]

It's also condescending to assume that if something isn't a big deal to you then it shouldn't be a big deal to other people as well. It's not surprising a depressed teenager isn't going to want to discuss their problems with others if they fear being dismissed.

 

If I could +rep I would.

 

 

I remember my friend making a comment one time about how she was having a really tough time and when she told another one of her friends about it, the response was "that's it?" She was understandably livid.

 

I've had some horrible things happen over the course of my life, which lends me perspective and helps me roll with a lot of the negative that can happen so it doesn't bother me much. But I always make sure to not judge someone for having a hard time dealing with an issue that I may not feel is that big of a deal were it to happen to me.

[Walsingham]

Tragic. My heart goes out to the girl's parents, it's not a nice place they're at now.

 

I agree with this sentiment. I'm a little surprised that anyone would view this with what sounds like pseudo-Drawinian satisfaction. I've seen the strongest people being weak at one time or another. It happens. I don't think it's wise to push people when they're in that state.

 

On the other hand, and linking to GD's observation, this sounds like another kid trying to shore up their own insecurities. With such a rapid transition from gleeful to zero they probably had no idea how seriously they were affecting her, rather than this being bullying in the classic sense. As for making a law for it, given I don't think there's any culpability that would seem nonsensical.

[Calax]

Is this situation similar to Starwars kid or am I just seeing things?