Why is the NWN2 modding scene so.... meh?

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Eh? Then what is all the scripts using?

 

Scripting isn't coding. A script so to speak is calling another persons piece of code, but not actually writing the code.

[Pidesco]

You must love Python.

 

Anyway, by that logic, wouldn't the only acceptable way of coding be assembly? Or hell, everything should be done in machine language! Because high level languages are for the weak.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

You must love Python.

 

Anyway, by that logic, wouldn't the only acceptable way of coding be assembly? Or hell, everything should be done in machine language! Because high level languages are for the weak.

 

LOL to an extent yes that is my thinking.

 

I do think highly of the NWN2 engine despite my griefing it so harshly.

[Pidesco]

Do you know where computers would be today if we had stuck with low level languages?

 

 

 

 

 

Nowhere.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Do you know where computers would be today if we had stuck with low level languages?

 

 

 

 

 

Nowhere.

 

Uh huh, all languages have their place.

[Sand]

And Pascal is at the back of the line, right there with FORTRAN and GWBasic. HAHAHAHAHA!

[MLMarkland]

In an ideal world, game designers should never even have to consider code. A film director does not hire engineers to create a camera before shooting.

 

The future will be marked by a handful of amazingly talented teams of coders creating engines to run games, and a larger spread of studios using those engines to create games. There will still be some coding to be sure, as the teams interface with the engines, but the wholesale creation of new engines for new games as the standard is too risky, inefficient and is a prime target for some object-oriented-style cleanup.

 

If you want to code engines, then coding your own engine is certainly what you should do.

 

If you want to do anything else related to the game business, you should shelve the idea of coding your own engine and instead do what it is you want to do, which is make a game.

 

The engine is a tool, not the end goal. That doesn't diminish its importance; but no one plays an engine.

 

If you want to code render tech for a living, creating an adventure with NWN2 is certainly not the best use of your time.

 

If you want to make crpg mods, NWN2 is clearly the best choice.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

And Pascal is at the back of the line, right there with FORTRAN and GWBasic. HAHAHAHAHA!

 

I've written stuff in Pascal... It has its place.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

In an ideal world, game designers should never even have to consider code. A film director does not hire engineers to create a camera before shooting.

 

The future will be marked by a handful of amazingly talented teams of coders creating engines to run games, and a larger spread of studios using those engines to create games. There will still be some coding to be sure, as the teams interface with the engines, but the wholesale creation of new engines for new games as the standard is too risky, inefficient and is a prime target for some object-oriented-style cleanup.

 

If you want to code engines, then coding your own engine is certainly what you should do.

 

If you want to do anything else related to the game business, you should shelve the idea of coding your own engine and instead do what it is you want to do, which is make a game.

 

The engine is a tool, not the end goal. That doesn't diminish its importance; but no one plays an engine.

 

If you want to code render tech for a living, creating an adventure with NWN2 is certainly not the best use of your time.

 

If you want to make crpg mods, NWN2 is clearly the best choice.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO!

[MLMarkland]

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO!

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

[Monte Carlo]

I just don't think very highly of modding

 

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and as somebody who has the technical ability of a potato, my opinion is that modders are gods in the gaming firmament. As somebody who plays mods for virtually all of their games (BG series, Medieval TW, Close Combat, NWN2, JA2) I'd like to say thanks for all the time and effort they put into them. They are grealty appreciated.

 

Cheers

MC

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO!

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

 

I was jesting :|

[MLMarkland]

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO!

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

 

I was jesting :|

 

Hey, I'm not actually kidding entirely. You want, eventually, for the game engine to be able to procedurally generate "fun". I just think it's a long ways off

 

For example, you want the AI algos to provide a broad coverage of difficulty, challenge, etc. but to adjust dynamically to the player, not entirely or across the board, but locally, so that the game system is optimized on a per-player basis. That's AI-driven procedural fun. It's certainly beyond my technical knowledge. But it's what you want eventually, in an ideal world.

 

But what I am saying is that you don't really want to have to re-design that over and over. You want that sort of tool to exist as a tool that's re-used by everybody telling stories with games.

 

I'm saying there's code, interface and client. The game designer is the client. The code is the engine. The interface is the floaty area in between 'em. You want to re-use the code (engine) as much as possible. You want the interface to be as intuitive as possible (NWN2 can certainly use some interface intuition improvements). You want the client to be able to do what they want with the code via the interface, without actually having to get down into the code.

Edited September 20, 2007 by MLMarkland

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO!

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

 

I was jesting :|

 

Hey, I'm not actually kidding entirely. You want, eventually, for the game engine to be able to procedurally generate "fun". I just think it's a long ways off

 

For example, you want the AI algos to provide a broad coverage of difficulty, challenge, etc. but to adjust dynamically to the player, not entirely or across the board, but locally, so that the game system is optimized on a per-player basis. That's AI-driven procedural fun. It's certainly beyond my technical knowledge. But it's what you want eventually, in an ideal world.

 

But what I am saying is that you don't really want to have to re-design that over and over. You want that sort of tool to exist as a tool that's re-used by everybody telling stories with games.

 

I'm saying there's code, interface and client. The game designer is the client. The code is the engine. The interface is the floaty area in between 'em. You want to re-use the code (engine) as much as possible. You want the interface to be as intuitive as possible (NWN2 can certainly use some interface intuition improvements). You want the client to be able to do what they want with the code via the interface, without actually having to get down into the code.

 

Naturally, because engines cost $$$ to develop, you're not telling me anything I don't know.

 

Naturally, a procedural fun would be cool, but in all likelyhood I don't see it happening because it is my personal belief that games are a story telling device, and that really requires humans. So while the games difficulty may adjust, and such, I don't ever seeing good stories being procedurally generated.

[MLMarkland]

Naturally, because engines cost $$$ to develop, you're not telling me anything I don't know.

 

Yes, and this is why the NWN2 Engine is an absolutely brilliant stroke of design, production and distribution: Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

 

Now it's not perfectly simple, but power and simplicity are a trade-off.

 

And... it's not perfectly powerful because power and simplicity are a trade-off.

 

But.. it strikes a brilliant balance between the two poles.

 

People should embrace this technology because the alternative is that game developers will not bother to strike a balance, they will either not release toolsets or release toolsets that are purely functional with no attention given to the end-user interface.

 

This is the way of the future... if you want it to be... a diffuse spread of creative control.

 

The alternative is less dynamic and interesting.

 

Either way could be profitable, but it is up to the consumer to decide.

[Tale]

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Tale

[MLMarkland]

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

 

Sure, but that's not the point. Next-gen is short-hand for the level of detail in the art assets. It's a malleable term. Some people probably like to use it as a term of derision for making criticisms of certain companies. But that's not really important.

 

It's short-hand for an order-of-magnitude change in the amount of detail presented on screen which is part and parcel with normal mapping tech and part and parcel with new programmable shader pipelines and part and parcel with things like real time dynamic shadow calculations.

 

Next gen might have become a buzz word, but before it was a buzz word it was a real thing, a phrase that represented a dramatic change in the way video games "look".

[Tale]

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

 

Sure, but that's not the point. Next-gen is short-hand for the level of detail in the art assets.

No, no it's not. Next-gen is short-hand for next generation, and refers to the generation of the platform. It has nothing to do with "dramatic change in the way video games "look"." It explicitly has to do with the generation of the platform it is released on. So, unless you're claiming that Neverwinter Nights 2 was released as a DX10, Vista, Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii game, which is wasn't, then you're still just throwing around a buzzword with no clue as to what it means.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Tale

[Diamond]

I've written stuff in Pascal... It has its place.

Presently, this place is a grave.

[Tale]

Pascal haters just don't know about my :=

 

The hardest thing in the world when I moved over to Borland C++ was to stop using :=.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Tale

[MLMarkland]

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

 

Sure, but that's not the point. Next-gen is short-hand for the level of detail in the art assets.

No, no it's not. Next-gen is short-hand for next generation, and refers to the generation of the platform. It has nothing to do with "dramatic change in the way video games "look"." It explicitly has to do with the generation of the platform it is released on. So, unless you're claiming that Neverwinter Nights 2 was released as a DX10, Vista, Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii game, which is wasn't, then you're still just throwing around a buzzword with no clue as to what it means.

 

You can wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty but the pig likes it.

[Pope]

So you're a pig?

[MLMarkland]

It was a comment on the futility and pointlessness of arguing over the internet.

 

I really despise how people like to derail threads and act the tough on the internet.

 

The topic of this thread is the NWN2 modding scene.

[MLMarkland]

And so, back to the topic...

 

I think these previews help demonstrate why NWN2 is a brilliant modding platform.

 

Phineas Ligistra Preview

 

Baron and Hellfire's Report from Obsidian

 

Maximus' Report from Obsidian

 

Kalia @ Warcry

Sights and Sounds of the Hive

 

Kalia @ Warcry

Report From Obsidian

 

And it's not all about Purgatorio either. This is a module that just came out that everyone should download and try:

 

Hugie's Moonshadows

 

Hugie is one of the folks working for Ossian Studios on whatever secret project they got going on.

 

I'm very proud of what we've accomplished so far for Purgatorio and can't wait for people to play it, but those previews barely even scratch the surface regarding how much custom content is going to be added to the community resource pool when Purgatorio gets released. 20 new custom creatures. Hundreds of custom placeables. New tilesets. Three and a half hours of music. Etc. Etc. Etc. None of that would be possible without the power and flexibility of the NWN2 game and engine.

Edited September 20, 2007 by MLMarkland

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I've written stuff in Pascal... It has its place.

Presently, this place is a grave.

 

YEaaah. *kicks dead code corpse*