Arkan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 There has been a story in the news lately about a Georgian man who was convicted of killing a police officer, and he has been ordered to be executed sometime next week. However, new evidence suggests that this man may be innocent, with several key witnesses retracting their statements, as well as naming another man. Still, the judge denies this new evidence or a retrial, and the man is still to be executed, barring a successful appeal of the state supreme court. Here is an article about it: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070714/ap_on_...4UNTPceUG4EtbAF What do you think about this situation? "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Well, I think that the guy might be innocent, and that the judge will probably feel like a jerkhead if the guy is executed and then proven innocent. There was a story on the news a few days ago about some guy who was charged with the murder+rape of some girl, and put in jail for like the rest of his life. 18 years later some peice of hair on the girls shirt proves him innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I'm confused. This piece doesn't reallys et out the different cases very well. The witnesses are confused about what happened, which is fine. Because some cases are like that. Particularly where you've got anything out of the ordinary happening. It's not clear to me who if anyone is alleged to have even been present at the shooting. Nor is there any indication of who was beating the unfortunate homeless man. Were both Dunn and Troy Davis there? What motive had they for shooting a bystander anyway? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. In particular I don't understand how the judge can rule witnesses hearing Coles confess as hearsay when witnesses testifying to Davis confession were allowed to stand in the original trial. We might also give some thought to Coles, who must be pretty miffed about getting dragged into a case he would have thought closed many years ago. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) The innocent die all the time, especially when playing squash against this guy: Edited July 15, 2007 by Laozi People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 As long as I'm alive, I'm against the death penalty. And yeah, poor guy. Sucks to be him. If he's innocent, the judge and jury should be brought up on manslaughter charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Eh. If it turn out the guy is innocent, we can always execute the judge. Unless of course some piece of evidence proves the innocent man guilty at the last minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenghuang Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Collateral damage. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarna Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 If he's innocent, the judge and jury should be brought up on manslaughter charges. Interesting point of view! I'm normally pro-death penalty but do enjoy the idea of 'court-arena' where all involved must prove their innocence before bearing witness to an event. Failure to do so and finding that a 'witness' has a vested interest in the trial allows the 'Legum' to kill the witness on the spot. That's gotta keep the witnesses on the 'straight and narrow'! Judges are not exempt either! A judge could be killed on the spot by a Legum that showed him to flying under false affilliation. How much Pay-ola is your life worth Judge? Remember...your appointment is only 'for life'. It's a shame that this can't be applied to our political system as well. ( I guess I'm still pro-death penalty...just looking forward to increasing it's numbers. :wink: Just thinning the herd of hypocrits. ) Ruminations... When a man has no Future, the Present passes too quickly to be assimilated and only the static Past has value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I am curious on what ground the judge denied retrial. What the requirements for a retrial in Georgia? Someone else confesses? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 So far as I'm aware, here in America new evidence, even that which exonerates a defendant, is not both necessary and sufficient to warrant a retrial. Can't imagine why. Maybe they're afraid of legal gridlock. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 actually, _new_ evidence is required, and it needs to meet a pretty stiff standard to qualify as necessary and sufficient. typically, witnesses recanting their testimony is not considered either. if the prosecution felt the recant was legit, however, and pursued another suspect, trying and then convicting said suspect, that may qualify. grommy probably has a better read on such situations. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 actually, _new_ evidence is required, and it needs to meet a pretty stiff standard to qualify as necessary and sufficient. typically, witnesses recanting their testimony is not considered either. if the prosecution felt the recant was legit, however, and pursued another suspect, trying and then convicting said suspect, that may qualify. grommy probably has a better read on such situations. taks Naive question, possibly: would the state pursue another suspect when they've already got a conviction? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 yes, though not often. if you manage to convince the prosecutor something is afoul it can happen. rare at best, but so is the death penalty to begin with. the problem with reading a news article on such a subject is that you have no idea what _all_ the other evidence is. a judge will weigh that in his decision, because he gets to see it all. if he determines that the primary reason for the conviction was actually otherwise not dependent upon the testimony, it won't get overturned. he may also decide that perhaps the witnesses changed their stories because of a guilty conscience, or pressure from anti death penalty groups, etc. that's why original testimony is deemed "correct" vs. later recants (remember, 12 people heard the evidence and testimony and ultimately had to decide its truthfulness before the conviction in the first place). judges are loathe to tell juries that they were wrong. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 (edited) Naive question, possibly: would the state pursue another suspect when they've already got a conviction? I only took just enough criminal law to get through law school (i.e., one class in my first year and then a couple days of review classes before the Bar exam), but based on that and the occasional Law & Order rerun, the answer is yes. However, I recall that most states will allow the defense in the second case to present as evidence the fact that someone else has been convicted of this crime. If the prosecution doesn't have some kind of theory of joint liability (conspiracy, accomplice, etc.), it will probably kill their case unless they've already let the other guy go and nullified his conviction. Edited July 16, 2007 by Enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 or the new evidence is overwhelming. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Thanks for explaining that. My legal experience is limited to cash cases. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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