alanschu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) I have to agree. There is no point in firing a gun if you aren't sure you have a decent chance of hitting the target. I rather get a precise shot to the head off than a glancing shot to the shoulder or as Eddo said, miss completely and accidently shoot an innocent outside. So is the gun truly for self-defense, or is it looking for a justified reason to kill someone? Why a precise shot to the head, and not a shot to the chest (which is probably where you should be aiming if it's so dark that you need night sights)? I'd imagine that firing a blank would be more than effective at protecting yourself and your home, with perhaps the second round in the magazine being a live round in case the intruder doesn't buy it. Besides, night sights also make target shooting a lot easier in the daylight. And target shooting is fun. I know we got off on the whole gun control thing here but the truth is, the number on use of firearms is the totally harmless sport of Marksmanship, which is both relaxing, and enjoyable. At least that's an honest answer. Edited February 7, 2007 by alanschu
Guard Dog Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Furthermore, would your rounds effectively shoot through walls and wound neighbours? Wouldn't they break apart before they could get through the second layer of drywall? Depends on the type of round, jacket, projectile, distance to the wall, angle of impact. Hardball (softpoint) projectiles penetrate better than hollow points, but do less damage. But a few sheets of drywall will not stop a 9mm. The exterior wall should. That is why I would prefer a shotgun for home defense. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Sand Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 If someone breaks into my house and I have a gun, I shoot to kill. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
alanschu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 I know it depends on the ammunition. I have limited experience firing bullets through walls. Is our skin significantly tougher than drywall, or is it the organs that slow things down sufficiently that would prevent the round from exiting out the other side of the individual and still hitting an innocent bystander?
alanschu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 If someone breaks into my house and I have a gun, I shoot to kill. Why specifically to kill? Is killing more effective than incapacitation?
Sand Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 It depends on the range in which it punctures and the caliber of the bullet. A 9mm at close range, 5 to 15 feet, will punch through the other side of the body and keep going. A .22 at the same range will probably richocet in the body causing greater internal damage. A .50 cal bullet at close range would go through and keep going a long ways while tear up the body a great deal while a 9mm at long range would probably act like a .22 at short range. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Laozi Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 I wouldn't worry about the chances of Eddos hitting someone is minimal. Most research indicates that he's much more likely to shot himself or a family member. That might double in California. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Sand Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 If someone breaks into my house and I have a gun, I shoot to kill. Why specifically to kill? Is killing more effective than incapacitation? Less litigation. If someone breaks into your home and you shoot but not kill they can sue you for damages and more than likely win. If they are dead, well, they can't sue you. At least that is how it works in Iowa. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Guard Dog Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 I know it depends on the ammunition. I have limited experience firing bullets through walls. Is our skin significantly tougher than drywall, or is it the organs that slow things down sufficiently that would prevent the round from exiting out the other side of the individual and still hitting an innocent bystander? What it really comes down to Alan is the weight of the projectile and the degree to which in "mushrooms". For example, full jacketed amunition (which is illegal in the US) does not expand after impact so it does not slow down as much. You are far more likely to have a projectile go in and out of a body if it is full jacketed. Hollow points double in diameter after they impact which of course slows them down a lot but because the projectile is so much larger insude the body than the entry would they do horrible damage. A center mass hit with a hollowpoint is almost invariably fatal. A larger projectile (like a .45 for example) will have almost 70% more mass. The average 9mm is around 160 grains and the .45 is around 245 grains. So a 45 will not cover the range of a 9mm but will do more damage to what it hits and is less likely to do an in-and-out "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
alanschu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 It depends on the range in which it punctures and the caliber of the bullet. A 9mm at close range, 5 to 15 feet, will punch through the other side of the body and keep going. A .22 at the same range will probably richocet in the body causing greater internal damage. A .50 cal bullet at close range would go through and keep going a long ways while tear up the body a great deal while a 9mm at long range would probably act like a .22 at short range. Will Eddo be encountering people at ranges significantly farther than 5 to 15 feet in the defense of his home? The thing I particularly liked with GuardDog's suggestion is that, while a shotgun will likely be lethal force, it was chosen specifically to accent his accuracy (to be honest, I'd be surprised if upon discovering an intruder, that many people would have the mental fortitude to line up their gun and aim properly down the sights, rather than more of a point and shoot), and to limit the chance of accidental injury. As for your stupid laws, well, that just stupid.
Guard Dog Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) The thing I particularly liked with GuardDog's suggestion is that, while a shotgun will likely be lethal force, it was chosen specifically to accent his accuracy (to be honest, I'd be surprised if upon discovering an intruder, that many people would have the mental fortitude to line up their gun and aim properly down the sights, rather than more of a point and shoot), and to limit the chance of accidental injury. Plus, chambering a shell with a pump action is a loud and unmistakable sound. Who is going to stick around after hearing that? As much as I am willing and able to use deadly force to defend myself and home, I'd rather an intruder run before it comes to that. *edit* But I have 14 dogs, who in their right mind will ever break into my place? Edited February 7, 2007 by Guard Dog "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
theslug Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 The thing I particularly liked with GuardDog's suggestion is that, while a shotgun will likely be lethal force, it was chosen specifically to accent his accuracy (to be honest, I'd be surprised if upon discovering an intruder, that many people would have the mental fortitude to line up their gun and aim properly down the sights, rather than more of a point and shoot), and to limit the chance of accidental injury. Plus, chambering a shell with a pump action is a loud and unmistakable sound. Who is going to stick around after hearing that? As much as I am willing and able to use deadly force to defend myself and home, I'd rather an intruder run before it comes to that. *edit* But I have 14 dogs, who in their right mind will ever break into my place? 14 dogs is a little excessive lol....but yeah guns are pretty sweet. I mean i'll get one probably sooner or later. Shoot it at the gun range and stuff and then when i turn into some crazy urban terrorist when im like 50 and a derranged old man ill have plenty of fire power. There was a time when I questioned the ability for the schizoid to ever experience genuine happiness, at the very least for a prolonged segment of time. I am no closer to finding the answer, however, it has become apparent that contentment is certainly a realizable goal. I find these results to be adequate, if not pleasing. Unfortunately, connection is another subject entirely. When one has sufficiently examined the mind and their emotional constructs, connection can be easily imitated. More data must be gleaned and further collated before a sufficient judgment can be reached.
Tale Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 *edit* But I have 14 dogs, who in their right mind will ever break into my place? Yeah, but they're all Chihuahas and Dachsunds. All they need are some tall shoes. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Purgatorio Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) You insult the Dachshund and you die! Dachshunds make a lot of noise for such a little doggy. So cute. :mad: :smile: Edited February 7, 2007 by Purgatorio S.A.S.I.S.P.G.M.D.G.S.M.B.
theslug Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 The only worthy dog is a korgi. Those cute little rascals. Or doxen or the wolf dogs those are awesome. There was a time when I questioned the ability for the schizoid to ever experience genuine happiness, at the very least for a prolonged segment of time. I am no closer to finding the answer, however, it has become apparent that contentment is certainly a realizable goal. I find these results to be adequate, if not pleasing. Unfortunately, connection is another subject entirely. When one has sufficiently examined the mind and their emotional constructs, connection can be easily imitated. More data must be gleaned and further collated before a sufficient judgment can be reached.
alanschu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 The thing I particularly liked with GuardDog's suggestion is that, while a shotgun will likely be lethal force, it was chosen specifically to accent his accuracy (to be honest, I'd be surprised if upon discovering an intruder, that many people would have the mental fortitude to line up their gun and aim properly down the sights, rather than more of a point and shoot), and to limit the chance of accidental injury. Plus, chambering a shell with a pump action is a loud and unmistakable sound. Who is going to stick around after hearing that? As much as I am willing and able to use deadly force to defend myself and home, I'd rather an intruder run before it comes to that. *edit* But I have 14 dogs, who in their right mind will ever break into my place? Heh, I thought I mentioned it, but apparently I didn't. I meant to specifically mention the deterrence that pumping the shotgun would also have.
Sand Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 As for your stupid laws, well, that just stupid. Yes, but the law is the law. :confused: Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
theslug Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 As for your stupid laws, well, that just stupid. Yes, but the law is the law. :confused: THe rules were ment to broken which is why i constantly get messages from mods to stop side stepping language filters and stop being an obnoxious ahole. But i mean look at me I turned out awesome. There was a time when I questioned the ability for the schizoid to ever experience genuine happiness, at the very least for a prolonged segment of time. I am no closer to finding the answer, however, it has become apparent that contentment is certainly a realizable goal. I find these results to be adequate, if not pleasing. Unfortunately, connection is another subject entirely. When one has sufficiently examined the mind and their emotional constructs, connection can be easily imitated. More data must be gleaned and further collated before a sufficient judgment can be reached.
alanschu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 As for your stupid laws, well, that just stupid. Yes, but the law is the law. :confused: You once had a goal of becoming involved in politics. Start a lobby group.
Sand Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 It would be pointless to do so. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
alanschu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) You mean like NRA? I was thinking something that doesn't come with a lot of preconceived notions about it. Besides, the NRA already exists. It is a bit late to go and start it. It would be pointless to do so. Why? Edited February 7, 2007 by alanschu
Guard Dog Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 It would be pointless to do so. If you are an idealist I would not reccomend involving yourself in politics. The political process will sour you on your country, your countrymen, democracy and make you doubt the worth of all good things. It is like a huge private club where common sense is checked at the door. Nobody cares about actually solving problems, just about being on the right side of them. You will be shocked to hear the condescending and insulting way political insiders think of the average citizen, but after talking to voters you will start to feel the same way. Most of them (politicians) do not have a shred of self respect and most honestly believe we NEED them in office simply because they are so much better than we are. Winning in politics is the equivalent of selling your soul for beans. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Plano Skywalker Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 I disagree. The best home defense weapon IMHO is a .12 GA pump shotgun. Use #2 buckshot, keep the magazine full and the chamber empty. If needed, the sound of the pump chambering the shell is usually enough to send anyone running. Plus you do not need to be particularly accurate to be effective with it. And, odds are the blast will not penetrate a wall (provided you are not right in front of it). A pistol shot will punch right through a wall or two. Makes you think about which way you are shooting. I've got to say, that is some sound advice. The best-case scenario is for the prowler to simply run. If he hears the sound of a shotgun shell being chambered, well, that has an unmistakable psychological effect. He also knows you don't really have to know what you are doing if you have a shotgun. For home defense, the best bet is a shotgun (and pump action for the mental effect).
Gorgon Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Nice to see you all have the sales pitch memorised. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
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