is there a difference between rpg and fps anymore?

[Morgoth]

I don't see quality in games that have zero immersion factor for me.  First person view is not immersive for me therefore it lacks quality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't even seem to understand what the term "immersive" means. But then again, this is the most overrated word since video games exist anyway. "

I think "getting lost" is more appropriate, and that can work with any type of game or view - it just depends how effectively it is implemented. Design >> Camera View.

Edited December 27, 2006 by Morgoth

[alanschu]

Kind of funny how you go on about how games have become more mainstream, appeal to the lowest common denominator, and how things are all different, then talk about how "sad" it is that you have to play arguably the most popular and most well known RPG in gaming. 

 

*Snip*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Final Fantasy 7 was fairly well balanced.

 

Each map was a puzzle in and of itself, there was a sense of exploration and adventure, there was just enough playing the game and just the right amount of watching an "Interactive story book" and man, what a story to interact with.

 

I think nostalgia may be slanting your perspective. I loved the game too, but if you step back and look at it, it's a pretty straight forward game. Any sense of exploration and adventure likely came into how large the game was. Outside of acquiring Vincent and Yuffie, there really isn't a whole lot of exploration in the game. And each map (I'm assuming you mean each area, as in a collection of individual maps) being a puzzle in and of itself is being somewhat generous IMO.

 

While the Plot line is completely Linear you feel as if your involved with it, that your moving events along, that your interacting with the game and actually playing, not simply triggering one cut scene after the other.

 

Again, it seems to me like the nostalgia of the experience is winning over. The game was more about Sephiroth than it was about Cloud. The big thing about the game was the huge WOW factor when it came out. But show me some RPGs where you don't move things along. You're placing your personal subjective bias on something that can't really be quantified. Combat was not challenging, and even the harder fights were little more than figuring out what spell was appropriate to use. And if you were still having trouble, it was easily remedied by wandering around aimlessly fighting random encounters. Given the 1000s of fights in the game, I can't honestly remember there being 100 fights that required a particularly large amount of thought. Unfortunately, the ones that were the most diifficult typically seemed to come after lengthy dialogue sequences, so dying meant enduring it all again.

 

Besides, "Linear" does not automatically equal bad. There is simply a way to do it so that the player feels like a participant, and not like they are simply being led by the nose through the game.

 

I never once said Linear is bad. You were talking about "dumbing things down" and how games today have no choice, and then proceeded to state how a game that pretty much had zero choice is still significantly better than most other games.

 

You also picked one of the worst looking maps as your "Demonstration", compare that to Mid gar and it is quite a different visceral experience.

 

I tried to pick a map that contained actual characters in it. Posting screenshots of prerendered backgrounds or prerendered videos are poor representations of graphics (as an aside, it did have people talking about the "awesome" graphical capabilities of the PSX). It was always funny coming back to the in game characters after a FMV sequence, or even combat itself. Given FF8 was able to have much better looking characters, it seemed more like an artistic choice. It wasn't one I was fond of (though I may be in the minority, as I remember a lot of people complaining about the character models in FF8. Big giant blocks for hands

 

I also really want to know where and when people decided Linear was bad, some of the best RPG's have been completely Linear, but it was because they told such a wonderful story and it was a fun, engaging and enjoyable experience playing through that story that they hold a place in the trophy cabinet.

 

I figured you did, when you started critcizing "modern RPGs" about their lack of choice. I have nothing against a linear game. I'd rather have the more linear and streamlined Baldur's Gate 2, than the more open and exploratation friendly Baldur's Gate 1.

[Dark_Raven]

DRAMA!

 

I like isometric views.

[Sand]

Camera view is very much part of a game's design. It is the representation of the game and thusly very important. If the game has a poor representation with its camera view then I am not going to play it, even if it has the best design in the world.

 

For 90% of the time, First Person Only means No Sale for me. I have only bought 2 FPV only games in the last 10 years of gaming, and those were on a lark.

[Morgoth]

Camera view is very much part of a game's design.  It is the representation of the game and thusly very important.  If the game has a poor representation with its camera view then I am not going to play it, even if it has the best design in the world.

 

For 90% of the time, First Person Only means No Sale for me.  I have only bought 2 FPV only games in the last 10 years of gaming, and those were on a lark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you just played the wrong games. If you grabbed some dull FPS like Call of Duty, then it's your own fault. But whether First Person or not, that game would suck anyway.

[Mortis Nai]

DRAMA!

 

I like isometric views.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*Gasps and faints*

 

How dare you!

 

You have to like what Alanschu & Llyranor tell you to like, or else people may not like you!!!

 

[Morgoth]

DRAMA!

 

I like isometric views.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you ever watch the movie "Bad Taste"?

[Sand]

Maybe it is because I don't like nor will ever like first person view.

[Morgoth]

Maybe it is because I don't like nor will ever like first person view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh well, have it your way Sand. That's fine. But it's not fine to spoil people who are actually fond of FPV. Remember, Sand is not supposed to be Evil Hades.... or did I miss something?

[Mortis Nai]

Maybe it is because I don't like nor will ever like first person view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Regardless of what others may think, you are actually allowed to have personal preference and taste.

 

You do not need to defend and justify what you personal enjoy in a game.

 

I really do not understand this movement where everyone has to like FPS games...

 

I remember a time when we had multiple genera's of Games!

 

RPG, Platform, Puzzle, Adventure, Action, Simulations, Sports, Beat em ups & FPS Games, Plus every combination of any or all of the above... and each was a valid choice for what you as the player were allowed to enjoy.

 

But somewhere down the line someone decided everyone had to Enjoy FPS Games and World of Warcraft... and I had always hoped that in the year 2007 we would have more choice, not less.

 

Silly silly me.

Edited December 27, 2006 by Mortis Nai

[Sand]

Agreed, Mortis.

 

People can have their FPS games, just leave my CRPGs out of them.

[metadigital]

Well, when it comes to game purchasing i am far far far more likely to buy a game that has third person view than first person view.  I like to know what is going on around my character than just be limited in only seeing what is exactly in front of me.

 

I just don't see how people can say that FPV has a higher immersion factor.  Maybe they don't have peripheral vision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How does third person give you a better peripheral view?

[Morgoth]

Maybe it is because I don't like nor will ever like first person view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Regardless of what others may think, you are actually allowed to have personal preference and taste.

 

You do not need to defend and justify what you personal enjoy in a game.

 

I really do not understand this movement where everyone has to like FPS games...

 

I remember a time when we had multiple genera's of Games!

 

RPG, Platform, Puzzle, Adventure, Action, Simulations, Sports, Beat em ups & FPS Games, Plus every combination of any or all of the above... and each was a valid choice for what you as the player were allowed to enjoy.

 

But somewhere down the line someone decided everyone had to Enjoy FPS Games and World of Warcraft... and I had always hoped that in the year 2007 we would have more choice, not less.

 

Silly silly me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Truth is that the year 2007 offers more choices than let's say.... 10 years ago. Having the choice between jump&run, dungeon crawler or Flight simulation is hardly a valid choice for me. God thanks those times are over....

I look forward to the broad and interesting spectrum of games that get released in 2007...

Edited December 27, 2006 by Morgoth

[metadigital]

Maybe it is because I don't like nor will ever like first person view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regardless of what others may think, you are actually allowed to have personal preference and taste.

 

You do not need to defend and justify what you personal enjoy in a game.

 

I really do not understand this movement where everyone has to like FPS games...

 

I remember a time when we had multiple genera's of Games!

 

RPG, Platform, Puzzle, Adventure, Action, Simulations, Sports, Beat em ups & FPS Games, Plus every combination of any or all of the above... and each was a valid choice for what you as the player were allowed to enjoy.

 

But somewhere down the line someone decided everyone had to Enjoy FPS Games and World of Warcraft... and I had always hoped that in the year 2007 we would have more choice, not less.

 

Silly silly me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So this topic is really about how much you don't want a "tr00" RPG to be soiled by FPS-elements?

[Sand]

It allows me to see what is going on around my character instead of only just in front. The human range of vision is 270 degrees while FPV is far far far narrower.

[metadigital]

It is?

[aVENGER]

I just don't see how people can say that FPV has a higher immersion factor.  Maybe they don't have peripheral vision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or maybe they just play on widescreen monitors.

[metadigital]

[Sand]

Truth is that the year 2007 offers more choices than let's say.... 10 years ago. Having the choice between jump&run, dungeon crawler or Flight simulation is hardly a valid choice for me. God thanks those times are over....

I look forward to the broad and interesting spectrum of games that get released in 2007...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like I said, I don't mind there being First Person view in a CRPG just as long as I get my third person view along with it, give the player the choice between the two.

[Morgoth]

It allows me to see what is going on around my character instead of only just in front.  The human range of vision is 270 degrees while FPV is far far far narrower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In FPV, you can look anywhere. On the sky, on your shoes etc etc.... how is that narrow? Do your own eyes hover somewhere over your shoulder, or are they still in your eye sockets?

Edited December 27, 2006 by Morgoth

[Morgoth]

Truth is that the year 2007 offers more choices than let's say.... 10 years ago. Having the choice between jump&run, dungeon crawler or Flight simulation is hardly a valid choice for me. God thanks those times are over....

I look forward to the broad and interesting spectrum of games that get released in 2007...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like I said, I don't mind there being First Person view in a CRPG just as long as I get my third person view along with it, give the player the choice between the two.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And so the cat bites herself into it's own tail....

[Sand]

I just don't see how people can say that FPV has a higher immersion factor.  Maybe they don't have peripheral vision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or maybe they just play on widescreen monitors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unfortunately I don't have $400 to $600 dollars to spend on a good widescreen monitor. If widescreen monitors are now needed for playing FPS games then that is even more reason to not play them.

[Sand]

And so the cat bites herself into it's own tail....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that doesn't make one bit of sense.

[Morgoth]

And so the cat bites herself into it's own tail....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that doesn't make one bit of sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because you don't get it?

[Sand]

In FPV, you can look anywhere. On the sky, on your shoes etc etc.... how is that narrow? Do your own eyes hover somewhere over your shoulder, or are they still in your eye sockets?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is narrow because you can only look what is right in front of you and that is it. First Person view does not take into account of all the visual range of human perception and it can't.