Mortis Nai

You have obviously never read the Qu'ran... every other page begins and ends with "God is great, love god, fear god, kill the infidels." Try reading a book before touting your opinion on it. Just because you "Have a copy" does not mean you have read the damn thing... just look at the Bible, Number one best seller and least read. **** if the German people had bothered to read everyones favorate table book during 1940 perhaps there would be tens of millions more people still alive.

Does the Saddam Execution via Cell Phone Video count as a home movie?

not really... just us noticing that Mortis doesen't like anything about a endless game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, thats is, you certainly hit the nail on the head there.

I'm telling you man "Crunch Day" The National Holiday of Game Developers, where they all get to kick Larry Probst in the nuts... it will take off, I know it will! If we can have "Secretary's day" We can have "Crunch Day." Pete needs a Holiday also... Hardest working man in the industry. I hear there is a roumer going around that he doesn't sleep, he restores his energy via Photosynthesis because he is one of the few children left over from the plant people invasion.

"I am gonna send you to a deep, dark place and I am gonna have fun doing it." -Eddie Dane ? "

So basically the one thing we can all agree on is that Vol is insane and somewhat scary? See, were all humans after all (Except for Vol of course, who is Kanadian ^_^ )

I'm going to use the Chewbaka defense.

*Sighs* And its that exact attitudes as to why there are so few small time independent companies these days.

(From the wiki) VTM: Bloodlines: Marketing and sales performance Bloodlines sales underperformed in the first few weeks, selling 72,000 units ($3.4 million) [5] despite generally favorable reviews.[6] A chief factor in Bloodlines' failure to sell is that publisher Activision did only a small amount of marketing/publicity compared to other titles with comparative budgets.[citation needed] Another factor that may have affected the sales performance of Bloodlines could be the release of Valve's blockbuster first-person shooter Half-Life 2 at the same time, going against earlier plans about postponing the release of Bloodlines until Spring 2005 so that it would not compete against Half-Life 2 during Christmas.[7] Additionally Bloodlines, like Troika's previous games, suffered a high level of criticism for bugs still present at the time of release. This was escalated by the delay of a patch to address these problems. Many, like former Troika artist Michael McCarthy, believe that Troika would have survived Bloodlines low sales had they sold the game directly to customers without having to go through a publisher such as Activision:[8]

Arcanum, ToEE & Bloodlines were all excellent Games that sold quite well. The Games themselves were a Success. Troika's downfall had nothing to do with "Lack of Sales because they were bad games" and had everything to do with mishandled funds and problems with the Publishers. Troika was unrealistically managed: Troika attempted to create a Developers haven, where people whom loved games could be with others whom truly loved games and they could all work in a less strangling, soul crushing, hyper commercialized industry. There was every chance that they could have made it, after all EA was originally founded on the smiler principals before it evolved into the Corporate Giant it is today... *Grumbles many unkind words about Larry Probst, The Video game antichrist.* Unfortunately they made a handful of big decisions that truly worked against them, due to inexperience dealing with the business aspect of the industry. Troika failure as a corporation is absolutely no mark against their Games. They were overly Dependant upon their Publishers, which meant that they were in a position that they could be taken advantage of... and when have you ever heard of a "Nice" publisher? You know, I would love to arrange for a "Kick Larry Probst in the nuts" day as a national holiday, where by for one day, every Employee of EA could kick Mr Probst in the nuts... the Holiday would be held between 9am and 10pm in honor of "Crunch time."

Its a pre-Shakespearean derivative spelling... because that's how damned l33t I am.

That should be: "Yes yes, we get it already. Because you like a certain thing, it makes you smarter than someone whom likes something else." or even more precise: "yes we get it already. Because you like something that someone else does not, it makes you interlectualy superior, we get it already." or just: "We get it, you think your better than everyone else." I figure if I am going to be pinned as an Elitist jerk then I may as well go the whole distance.

I agree with video games as art, but the whole "I weep for you" thing did have a bit of self-righteousness to it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In all fairness it was origionaly: "Then I f*cking weep for you, your children and the IQ of future generations... Lord save me from this f*cking souless and interlectualy void culture, rain down 40 f*cking days and 40 f*cking nights and wash the earth clean of these retards!" So I toned it back a little. "

Rationalize much? *snip most of the sanctimonious drivel* <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wasn't implying that there was no art in the video game medium (apologies if that is what you took away from my comment); I was more laughing at the "games HAVE to be art or else they are WoW / Britney Spears / popular therefore not culture". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sanctimonious drivel? Nice... Why do I feel like I am back in Daycare?

Hmm... that's an interesting theory. If something is popular, that means people like it. If people like it, that means it's good. Your theory has been crushed by reality. What you really mean is that you don't like it, so you "feel" it's not good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, he's just paying lip-service to Mr Mortis's "game as art" elitism. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In theatre, we have a script, a director, a cast of actors, a set, lighting and music, along with Costume, Lighting & Set Designers. Theatre is Art. In Video games, we have a script, Several Directors, A cast of actors, Lighting and Music along with World, Level, Animation, 3D Model Designers. Games are Art. Designing a Landscape for an area in a video game requires similar skill and eye as Painting or sculpting a Landscape. Creating a texture for a Building or Tree or Person literally requires an artist. If you cannot see the Art within Video Games then I weep for you.

Wow... talk about taking things too seriously... When did this go from "Internet Forum discussion" to "OMG you disagree so you must hate me!" There is no venditta or big conspiricy here, I do not know you or even care to know you, let alone hold a grudge. Your simply not an important aspect of my life for me to have feelings one way or the other for you. Sorry Take a break from the computer for a bit man, go for a walk or something. When you cool down everything will still be here waiting for you. Nothing in this or any other thread is worth getting offended about, especially when its just strangers spouting opinions.

That's why Navyfield was at the bottom along with Wurm, Its kinda sorta an MMOG but not I will admit that "This is why I hate WoW" was perhaps a poor choice of topic title, but at the time it was an emotional response to something that disgusted me. With 7 million people, your going to get some ****, I mean... Chicago has 7 Million people, and you can find a huge variety of different types of people in that large a cross section of populace. But then that really does not stop people overgeneralizing. Its human to make blanket statements "I hate the french" "I hate New York" now this does not necessarily mean that the person literaly dislikes every french person or New Yorker, but rather a stereotype that represents that group. In the case of WoW its the "Blizkid" of which the OP is a perfect example of. I also agree that simply because something sells well does not mean that one should right it off, but one of the most vehement arguments in support of WoW is always "7 Million people cant be wrong" which is absolute nonsense, unless you are talking In terms of raw sales and profit then yes, 7 Million people cant be wrong. 7 Million people can be right, they can also be very wrong, number of sales as you said is no marker by which to judge a game and I agree whole heartily. Can you judge a business Model via sales? hell yes, and that is perhaps WoW's greatest accomplishment. Lastly, Everquest 2 built upon the Foundation it had laid with Everquest, While EQ2 was little more than a face lift, the Original Everquest did solidify many of the aspects that we today see as A-Typical features in an MMOG. As for Copy And Pasting my Research directly, that I am afraid is something that requires the exchange of money before we can make that into a possibility. We all have to pay the bills somehow, or did you think I made a study of the MMOG Genera for fun?

Mmm... I don't have a favorite MMOG... the Genera is a little too shallow for my tastes. Fun for a while be gets repetitive very quickly. You said Blizzard did nothing new, they took what they liked from other games and perfected it, we agree there also. You point out WoW's easy to use, easy to learn interface... I pointed out that WoW has a learning curve of about 10 mins so we agree there. You admit the game has some major flaws, we agree there also, but then "High Level Content" and "End Game" is something all MMOG's suffer from. You admit he player Base is stupid, I agree with you. So why all the attitude and aggressiveness? I never said WoW was not fun, quite the opposite, I said it utilised the same formula that Blizzard used for Diablo 1 & 2 which was highly addictive. However, many people seem to think that Blizzard invented the wheel with WoW, when in truth they gave the genera a sugar coating so the pill not only went down easily but had a pleasant after taste. But, if a game brings nothing new to the table, then in my mind it has little in the way of "Artistic Merit" and value. I would rather play a game that is inventive and creative that takes some risks for better or worse than a game that tills old soil. Which is why in my study of MMOG's I found WoW to be unimpressive, it lacked that certain something that set it apart from all the rest. It was like a Time Life "Best of the 90's" CD.

If nothing else, troika is an example of why there is no longer any reward in making "Good" games. Everything is mass marketed, shipped out buggy as all hell and its no longer about making games, its about who can get the biggest cash cow going... Troika is an example of what happens when you have people that love games, making games, And why my ideals about Video games should never be listened to... because it follows the same through line and mentality. Quality VS Sales, I side on the side of quality... but that's not how the business works these days and in my heart of hearts I know it. :'( R.I.P Troika

If Elitism is stating that Beethoven has more to offer Artistically than Britney Spears & American Idol then I'm Elitist and proud of it. Any Corporate Giant or small time development house would love to have 7 million units sold to repeat customers, but that doesn't mean that the product sold has any greater artistic merit. WoW Sells because its a MMOG Format, that appeals to ages 7 to 70, has a learning curve of 10 Mins and follows the same highly addictive format of "Kill stuff, level up, get better stuff" that Blizzard used for Diablo 1 & 2, they did nothing new, they did nothing that deserves wild praise. They took a already proven successful formula, packaged and marketed it will to a broad player base and made a lot of money. WoW is the Boy Band of Video Games.. For a Analytical Research Project at the start of this year, I actually went through and played all the MMOG's I could get my hands on, any one that was offering a free trial and pretty much most of the Free MMOG's. I was attempting to dissect the Genera. City of Hero / City of Villains Lineage 1 & 2 Anarchy Online Everquest 1 & 2 Ultima Online Dungeons and Dragons Online Final fantasy XI Star Wars Galaxies Eve Online Ragnarok Online Matrix Online World of Warcraft Runescape Bloodlust Hero Online Silk Road Knight Online Navyfields Wurm Online And a Bunch of Korean MMOG's I cant remember the name of. While its not "Every MMOG" it is quite a substantial number so my point of view is not exactly biased to one MMOG over the others. While I could find good points and unique aspects to all of them (With the exception of most of the Generic "Korean" MMOG's that really just blur together) I could find nothing in WoW that was truly unique and original.

Let me put the shoe on the other foot a moment. In an FPS Game I want: 1: Dialogue Choices and Options that have a major effect on the end of a Game. 2: A Level up process and the collection of Experience for character growth by defeating MOB's and Completing Quests. 3: A Romance Option! 4: 100% Melee action, guns suck, I want Broadswords, Axes, Daggers, Spears and perhaps a Sniper Cross Bow. 5: Stealth and other Non Combative ways of solving Combat Encounters. 6: Weapon Skill and Aim to be completely determined by the Characters skills that improve as the character levels up. This would all be bad, why? Because it turns one Genera into another genera and leaves a void. There is space enough in the world for FPS Games, RPG Games and Action RPG's... you do not have to destroy one of them so the other two can survive. PS: I love how every time Alanschu cant respond to a point without admitting he is wrong, he calls it "Irrelevant."

See what I mean! I know all! *Looks at the Magic 8-Ball for the next answer.* Edit: Adding a Wiki link to "Munchkin" for definition.

Yep, the sooner people realise I am always right, the better the world will be for all.

I use it as it is spelled and described in the Story Tellers Handbook, by White-Wolf Publishing under lists of "Problem Player Types."

WoW's 7 million people simply means that what appeals to the lowest common denominator will always sell well to the masses. Britney Spears, The Spice Girls, Take That, The Backstreet Boys have all sold Millions upon Millions of Units... that doesn't mean I would even see fit to wipe my arse with the CD Cover of one of their albums.