I don't know what the big deal is. I just got finished with Hitman which is a 3rd person shooter and it didn't feel the least bit odd, quite the contrary, the spatial awareness was a big plus.

Josh has a point with all this small things don't matter to the casual gamer, only the hardcore audience really cares about minor details, the reality of the market is that at the end of the day; there are more casual gamers than hardcore, that's just a fact.

 

Josh and co... (That would be the design team at obsidian) have this awful job of needing to bridge the gap between, something that is fun and apeasing that hardcore gamer enough that folks like grommy don't complain like small children because feature X isn't in game Y, and he(grommy) logically cannot see why...

 

(Don't act like you don't go on about these things Grom, I've read enough of your posts, and while occasionally they shed some little gems they do at the end of the day still carry an air of ignorance.)

 

It's never simply a matter of lets make a game I WANT TO PLAY, or THESE PEOPLE want to play. It's always what's most likely to sell and most likely to be fun, they're kinda on par with each other as fun games tend to do well. This is not to mention the pressure of working on a world stage and knowing, actually KNOWING respected development companies will be watching, heck only a few weeks ago I was speaking to a guy from core design about obsidian...

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History has proven countless times second-guessing what people want is the worse way to produce something original.

 

Originality is what makes games great.

Josh has a point with all this small things don't matter to the casual gamer, only the hardcore audience really cares about minor details, the reality of the market is that at the end of the day; there are more casual gamers than hardcore, that's just a fact.

 

Josh and co... (That would be the design team at obsidian) have this awful job of needing to bridge the gap between, something that is fun and apeasing that hardcore gamer enough that folks like grommy don't complain like small children because feature X isn't in game Y, and he(grommy) logically cannot see why...

 

(Don't act like you don't go on about these things Grom, I've read enough of your posts, and while occasionally they shed some little gems they do at the end of the day still carry an air of ignorance.)

 

It's never simply a matter of lets make a game I WANT TO PLAY, or THESE PEOPLE want to play. It's always what's most likely to sell and most likely to be fun, they're kinda on par with each other as fun games tend to do well. This is not to mention the pressure of working on a world stage and knowing, actually KNOWING respected development companies will be watching, heck only a few weeks ago I was speaking to a guy from core design about obsidian...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

History has proven countless times second-guessing what people want is the worse way to produce something original.

 

Originality is what makes games great.

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I never mentioned second guessing, only said what needed to be achieved, originality works, but it has to appeal to none hardcore aliens fans... I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

What you may take as original is simply the subjective result of your gaming experience.

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by @\NightandtheShape/@

Dude, I hope they work the engine from the ground up because frankly, I'd have been embarrassed to be sat on an engine that does on top end machines 30fps and release a game thinking that was ok. (Obviously it's a tough job, but still...)

Jason Keeney and I agree that 30 fps is the minimum acceptable framerate for this game.

 

The other day he even suggested crashing builds if they drop below 20 fps during development. :cool:

Dude, I hope they work the engine from the ground up because frankly, I'd have been embarrassed to be sat on an engine that does on top end machines 30fps and release a game thinking that was ok. (Obviously it's a tough job, but still...)

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Jason Keeney and I agree that 30 fps is the minimum acceptable framerate for this game.

 

The other day he even suggested crashing builds if they drop below 20 fps during development. :cool:

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That's a good idea!

 

Throw an error on anything that causes extremely poor frame rate performance, stick those checks in the right places and your onto a winner! Atleast for debug builds.

"Here's another good example from Alien: in the first film, the Nostromo crew wear patches on their shoulders that read USCSS NOSTROMO with a space scene on it. Officers wear blue patches, regular folks wear black patches."

 

if you think Gromnir is talking 'bout the color of patches on uniforms, you musta' mind-melded with somebody 1 door down.

 

oh, and the reason we brings up monte cook is 'cause YOU brought up monte cook in your defense of the improved ranger way-back-when. how quick some folks forget.

 

*chuckle*

 

HA! Good Fun!

While I love good top down CRPGs with turn based combat and statistics based combat, I really don't want to see that in an Alien RPG.

 

Alien RPG just screams first person perspective. That doesn't mean it has to be a nonstop action game. I'd LOVE to see a system shock style game with some actual breaks in combat to plan with other NPCs... gaze at ship/base schematics planning on which doors to weld and where to set up the smart gun turrets. Then have the lights go out while you're chatting.

 

'They cut the power man!'

'How could they cut the power? They're just animals!'

Then have the motion sensor start clicking louder and louder.

 

It would be great if there was a system where your choices and planning effects who lives and who dies. It would really be awesome to have a group of really likable NPCs, like the marines from aliens or the crew from the Nostromo, and your decisions actually effect when or if they get offed.

 

Send the captain of the ship to go seal off the vent and listen over the radio as he's dragged off or do it yourself?

 

Forget to weld a door shut and become overrun and have a panicked retreat losing men? Or set up a perfect ambush that keeps everyone safe... for now?

I now find myself intrigued by the age old (not really) question of sci-fi RPGs.  Melee vs. Ranged.  Should prove interesting to see how the traditionally (though not exclusively) ranged Space Marines handle the almost exclusively melee Aliens using RPG rules.

 

 

How does D20 modern handle the issue?

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Just like D&D, the only advantage and differance is that you will be able to damage a melee opponent once before they charge you, if youve got the initiative.

 

all d20 systems are horrible for ranged combat and realism. The Alien rules for phoenix command are supposedly really cool but I dnt know if its transferable to a computer enviroment

if you think Gromnir is talking 'bout the color of patches on uniforms, you musta' mind-melded with somebody 1 door down.

Where are you going with this? What is your goal? I have already given examples of what I think are fine details to observe and I've already stated that I think any details that are burdensome to the casual fan are questionable at best. I even said that I wouldn't use the "formal" terms for those creatures in a movie or game because they are understood by such a marginal portion of potential players that they are alienating.

 

What is left to debate? If you don't disagree with the examples I've given, why do you insist that I'm not listening to you?

Gromnir is just being Gromnir.

 

Now are we going to have full character customization and creation, kind of a mixture of NWN2 and Oblivion, or will it be more like Jade Empire in which we choose a model and a set of limited abilities? Then again I can see it being more along the lines of Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Invisible War...

 

Hmmm...

 

Will there be a 3rd Person/1st person toggle?

Gromnir is just being Gromnir.

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He's a character.

Like Noober?

I agree with whoever said that Aliens RPG just begs for first person perspective. Seeing the bugger dashing towards you just doesn't compare to sit watching how some nice alien model rips to pieces some nice marine model. Deus Ex made a great job of mixing action and RPG, while on the other hand, and despite all the eye candy, the KotORs, NWNs and the like still feel quite a bit table top-ish. And for me, that's a suspension of disbelief killer, at least in survival horror stuff.

 

 

It's always what's most likely to sell and most likely to be fun, they're kinda on par with each other as fun games tend to do well.

Err... let's not open that particular can of worms please.

The thing is I really hate first person view. That is why I would like to have a toggle between the two.

I'm hoping for First Person

 

You can get a lot of tension built up using that.

The biggest vulnerability this game has right now, at least in my head, is the combat, as many have stated before. It's going to have to be real-time, and fast. It'd be madness to have a NWN2-esque turn-based system (IT WAS TURN BASED NO DISCUSSION PEOPLE) where everybody waits their turn to attack. No no, it's got to be immediate and hectic.

 

And as far as melee goes, come on, it's completely out. These things bleed acid, remember? You don't want to be next to them when they die. No GoW style chainsaw death.

 

*edit - Also, melee weapons would degrade pretty quickly. Best we can hope for is a flamethrower. They're Alien stalwarts as it is.

Edited December 23, 200619 yr by Pop

It doesn't have to be first person perspective to be fun. If they turn it into a twenty first century version of UFO: Enemy unknown (x-com), I would be delirious

If you have acid resistant armor it shouldn't be a problem. Right?

 

I am hoping for a toggle. I really hate first person view. I hated it in Bloodlines, Morrowind, Oblivion, and what not. I want my peripheral vision damn it.

Melee is definately a no go. We've seen what happens when that's used in the movies.

 

And I don't see "acid resistant" armor being in, unless it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay past the fourth movie.

 

It ate through how many decks again?

They might be able to use dwarf star alloy in armor. REALLY!

They might be able to use dwarf star alloy in armor.  REALLY!

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And they might be able to cast fireballs and lightning bolts too. REALLY!

 

Actually I used Aliens in a PnP DnD campaign and they used psionics.

 

Also do not mock dwarf star alloy. Not even tachyons can pass through it!

Edited December 23, 200619 yr by Sand

I think a close third person perspective can work for survival horror. It sure worked for Resident Evil 4.

 

I also tend to hold the view that human melee + adult aliens = ur ded.

I think a close third person perspective can work for survival horror.  It sure worked for Resident Evil 4.

 

I also tend to hold the view that human melee + adult aliens = ur ded.

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But we get the flamethrowers right? Right?

Meh. First person would be way nice. Nothing beats the immediacy of the view. 3rd person works for vanity and flybys, not for unloading a smartgun into an oncomign alien horde.