Giving drugs to drug addicts

[Walsingham]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/notting...ire/6172392.stm

 

I thought you chaps might find this interesting. The way I see it the issue is straightforward. We can either spend hundreds of thousands of pounds chasing and failing to stop the seriously addicted, or we can pay the tuppence ha'penny required to buy their drugs wholesale and give them away free.

[Gfted1]

And that helps addicts out how? Or are you looking at this from a strictly financial point of view?

[Sand]

Simple. You laced the drugs with a poison that kills them. The addicts die thusly ending the demand for drugs. Drug war over.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Simple.  You laced the drugs with a poison that kills them.  The addicts die thusly ending the demand for drugs.  Drug war over. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

thats the stupidest thing i've ever heard. i know many recovered addicts who are some of my best friends and awesome human beings, and likely contribute a lot more to the society than you ever will / would.

[Sand]

Okay okay, sorry. It was a stupid joke in case you missed the smiley. Sheesh.

 

Lighten up.

[Musopticon?]

I think this is a great idea.

 

No filthy syringes or needles, clean substances and monitored clinical conditions. What more could you ask? It seriously lowers the risk of overdosing, diseases and above all is a reliable way of getting your "kicks" without having to buy the drugs. Some addicts might reform eventually and at least no druggie has to resort to illegal means to acquire funds for drugs.

 

I'm pro for it. And actually, wasn't this already implemented in some European country?

[Sand]

I don't see that actually solving the problem, Muso. The root problem is there is something in their lives, or a lack of something, that is driving them to addiction and the drugs in the first place. That needs to be identified and dealt with if there is to be any progress whatsoever.

[Musopticon?]

Oh, ok.

 

Once you figure out that something, we'll stick with the best option available right now.

 

And by the way, you make it sound like addiction is some kind of mental illness or that addicts are flawed. They are not. Anyone can get stuck to these substances. Anyone. Just as anyone can get out off them eventually. I mean, everyone but Mister 10 Alt-Accounts.

[WinterSun]

Bollocks. All that's going to happen here is that junkies are going to commit more crimes, in the hope of getting free drugs.

[Deraldin]

I think this is a great idea.

 

No filthy syringes or needles, clean substances and monitored clinical conditions. What more could you ask? It seriously lowers the risk of overdosing, diseases and above all is a reliable way of getting your "kicks" without having to buy the drugs. Some addicts might reform eventually and at least no druggie has to resort to illegal means to acquire funds for drugs.

 

I'm pro for it. And actually, wasn't this already implemented in some European country?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We've had a saafe injection site in Vancouver for three years now and apparently it's doing quite well. CBC Link

[Sand]

The mental flaw is the need to escape the problem, which drugs, in most cases, is the tool in which one uses to escape. The addiction is the result of using that tool which reinforces the dependency of the tool, either physical or mental.

 

The addiction, though it compounds it greatly, is the end result of the problem and not the problem itself. The problem is what drove the individual to the drug in the first place.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Sand

[Lare Kikkeli]

people do drugs for different reasons, one of them being to have fun. i've done my share, and i've never had any other reason than to get ****ed up and have a laugh. and here i am, fairly succesfull and by no means addicted to anything (except tobacco, but i'll quit soon). it's the same with all drugs, including alcohol and tobacco. they can be used purely for pleasure, with no problems to escape nor no voids to fill.

 

then again if you do get addicted, you'll have a lot of trouble to stop using. i'm all for clean needles and (relatively) safe drugs for people who need them. after all, most of the addicts die due poor hygiene (dirty needles or HIV) or overdosing.

[Musopticon?]

The mental flaw is the need to escape the problem, which drugs, in most cases, is the tool in which one uses to escape.  The addiction is the result of using that tool which reinforces the dependency of the tool, either physical or mental.

 

The addiction, though it compounds it greatly, is the end result of the problem and not the problem itself.  The problem is what  drove the individual to the drug in the first place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ever heard of 'having fun'? Is that "a problem"?

 

I know that arguing with you is kind of stupid, but... for example party drugs aren't exactly taken to escape problems. Neither is the occasional bong. These can sometimes lead to heavier doses and addiction, but I've known folks who "buzz" every couple of weeks and have no problems. Same goes for the ubiquitous alcohol.

 

It's natural for people to get some sort of addiction with misuse, I don't see any significant defects with light users.

 

You seem to insist that there's some sort of miracle mental cure, a switch to set 'off' to totally do away with addictions. I don't agree.

 

By the way, just for kicks: You are obviously addicted to Internet. Do you feel that such an addiction is caused by a mental defect?

 

Edit: Thanks Deraldin.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Musopticon?

[Gorgon]

"And that helps addicts out how? Or are you looking at this from a strictly financial point of view?"

 

You can actually live a quite productive life and hold down a job while being a user, what destroys people are the things they have to do to get the drug, and the impure and imminently more dangerous versions of the drug available at your local pusher. The greater part of the vast ammounts saved by just giving pure medical variants could be chanelled into early prevention and treatment, and you would still save money while avoiding the criminilisation and suffering of the current state of affairs.

 

It would be important here to differentiate the really dangerous drugs, crack, meth, etc - those that cause permantent brain and nervous system damage - from those whose criminalisation is more a cultural phenomenon than a health risk.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Gorgon

[Sand]

Interesting. I, myself, have never had the urge to do any sort of drugs. Not even for a laugh. No cigarettes, no needles, no alcohol, nothing. I guess caffeine counts, then again maybe not.

[Sand]

Ever heard of 'having fun'? Is that "a problem"?

 

I don't see how taking drugs being fun.

 

I know that arguing with you is kind of stupid, but... for example party drugs aren't exactly taken to escape problems. Neither is the occasional bong. These can sometimes lead to heavier doses and addiction, but I've known folks who "buzz" every couple of weeks and have no problems. Same goes for the ubiquitous alcohol.

 

Actually I am beginning to find this quite enlightening. Except for my poor choice of a joke at the beginning of the thread I am finding the discussion interesting. Why is there an urge to get that buzz I wonder. I have never had the urge to get a buzz off any foreign substance, legal or otherwise.

 

It's natural for people to get some sort of addction with misuse, I don't see any significant defects with light users.

 

You seem to insist that there's some sort of miracle mental cure, a switch to set 'off' to totally do away with addictions. I don't agree.

 

There is no miracle cure but figuring out where the problem lies can lead to a cure but it might take months, years, or even decades to achieve. Hardly a quick fix.

 

By the way, just for kicks: You are obviously addicted to Internet. Do you feel that such an addiction is caused by a mental defect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes. I am a sick bastard.

[kirottu]

Interesting.  I, myself, have never had the urge to do any sort of drugs.  Not even for a laugh.  No cigarettes, no needles, no alcohol, nothing.  I guess caffeine counts, then again maybe not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you have no experience of this subject what so ever?

[Fenghuang]

Oh, ok.

 

Once you figure out that something, we'll stick with the best option available right now.

 

And by the way, you make it sound like addiction is some kind of mental illness or that addicts are flawed. They are not. Anyone can get stuck to these substances. Anyone. Just as anyone can get out off them eventually. I mean, everyone but Mister 10 Alt-Accounts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Um, except that addiction is recognized as a mental illness pretty much every shrink board everywhere now.

 

 

"And that helps addicts out how? Or are you looking at this from a strictly financial point of view?"

 

You can actually live a quite productive life and hold down a job while being a user, what destroys people are the things they have to do to get the drug, and the impure and imminently more dangerous versions of the drug available at your local pusher. The greater part of the vast ammounts saved by just giving pure medical variants could be chanelled into early prevention and treatment, and you would still save money while avoiding the criminilisation and suffering of the current state of affairs.

 

It would be important here to differentiate the really dangerous drugs, crack, meth, etc - those that cause permantent brain and nervous system damage - from those whose criminalisation is more a cultural phenomenon than a health risk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You are so f***ing wrong I don't even know where to begin. Sure, you can hold down a job, for awhile at least. You home life's gonna go to pieces, and sooner or later your addictions gonna catch up with you, but yeah,you can hold it together for awhile, especially if you're clever and above all a good liar. My old man managed to keep it together for 20 years before his alcoholism caught up with him.

 

Sorry dudes, as the son of a now sober alcoholic, and having grown up hanging out with his buddies from AA, I'm gonna have to side with Hades on this. Discuss the financial benefits all you want, but giving drugs to an addict is no way to solve their problems, just prolong them. An addict has to hit bottom to want to clean up their life, that generally involves some ugly ****.

 

And now I feel dirty.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Fenghuang

[Sand]

I think that most people at these forums have little first hand experience in this regard however I have done a number of readings in my sociology and psychology classes I have taken.

 

However if you are indeed have first hand experience in the matters of drug abuse and addiction, Kirottu, please enlighten me.

[Fenghuang]

Interesting.  I, myself, have never had the urge to do any sort of drugs.  Not even for a laugh.  No cigarettes, no needles, no alcohol, nothing.  I guess caffeine counts, then again maybe not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you have no experience of this subject what so ever?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sure he does, remember the posts where he said he'd get depressed and down a bottle of Jack Daniels by himself, home alone. Abusive behavior if I've ever heard of it.

[Sand]

I haven't done that for a number of years now and I hardly think that counts. I certainly do not drink to get drunk. I happen to like the taste of Jack Daniels.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Sand

[Fenghuang]

That's like saying I like the way cocaine smells.

 

At least you're admitting you're Hades now though.

[Gorgon]

"

You are so f***ing wrong I don't even know where to begin. Sure, you can hold down a job, for awhile at least. You home life's gonna go to pieces, and sooner or later your addictions gonna catch up with you, but yeah,you can hold it together for awhile, especially if you're clever and above all a good liar. My old man managed to keep it together for 20 years before his alcoholism caught up with him."

 

Alchohol isen't illegal. They tried that, didn't work out so well. In the case of alchoholism you have a condition that is potentially fatal, and certainly ruins lives, that however does not mean that the majority cannot use alchohol and suffer no ill effects.

 

So, what would be wrong with increased prevention and treatment for alchoholism ? :S

 

Shot and miss, I should think.

[kirottu]

Oh, ok.

 

Once you figure out that something, we'll stick with the best option available right now.

 

And by the way, you make it sound like addiction is some kind of mental illness or that addicts are flawed. They are not. Anyone can get stuck to these substances. Anyone. Just as anyone can get out off them eventually. I mean, everyone but Mister 10 Alt-Accounts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Um, except that addiction is recognized as a mental illness pretty much every shrink board everywhere now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Addiction to "normal" stuff, like internet, is a mental illness.

 

With drugs it

[Sand]

The problem with alcohol is the abuse. If used in moderation it can yield healthy results. The problem is, at least in the American college culture, extremes are often encourage.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Sand