NWN2: Forumite Impressions

[taks]

It won't. I can run Oblivion in 1680x1050 on my widescreen lcd perfectly (my monitors native res), and I can run it with NWN2, but the frame rates suck. So, I use 1024 x 768, it's not appealing, but it runs a lot smoother.

16:10 aspect ratio... very odd. LCD monitor mfgs are strange in this regard.

 

1024x768 is what i'm running, btw. but i'm on a CRT (dell 19"), so the interpolation issues are irrelevant. obviously the NWN2 engine is doing something more than oblivion's.

 

btw, I have a 7950 GTX, FX-60 and 2 gigs of ram

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

certainly not a low-end system as mine is.

 

taks

Edited November 6, 2006 by taks

[taks]

Yah but you can't compare Oblivion and NWN2, at least according to taks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

direct comparisons of any engine are ridiculous when they are obviously rendering different styles of graphics. it is a different engine entirely. there isn't even a slight resemblance of NWN2 to oblivion. i'm not sure why you don't seem to understand this. two completely different approaches to graphics. to assume one runs with certain performance should automatically imply another will run with similar performance is an absolute joke. if you cannot understand why this is, i cannot help you.

 

taks

[Ellester]

It won't. I can run Oblivion in 1680x1050 on my widescreen lcd perfectly (my monitors native res), and I can run it with NWN2, but the frame rates suck. So, I use 1024 x 768, it's not appealing, but it runs a lot smoother.

16:10 aspect ratio... very odd. LCD monitor mfgs are strange in this regard.

 

1024x768 is what i'm running, btw. but i'm on a CRT (dell 19"), so the interpolation issues are irrelevant. obviously the NWN2 engine is doing something more than oblivion's.

 

btw, I have a 7950 GTX, FX-60 and 2 gigs of ram

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

certainly not a low-end system as mine is.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yea, I expected NWN2 to run a lot better, but it doesn't. Hopefully there will be some tweaks to the graphics engine in future updates.

[taks]

yea, I expected NWN2 to run a lot better, but it doesn't. Hopefully there will be some tweaks to the graphics engine in future updates.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i'm surprised it runs as well as it does with my system. heck, the application takes 500 MB to run. huge...

 

taks

[Darque]

I'm suprised also.

 

But other than slow loading times, this game runs pretty smoothly on my system.

 

What can I do to tweak it further?

 

Disabling music maybe?

[Wistrik]

Use the ShowFPS console command while you tweak settings. It's pretty good at showing you which options have the biggest effect on your framerate aka performance.

 

Edit: I usually pick a spot to stand in, turn on ShowFPS and then let the camera spin the view in 360 degree circles to see how the FPS changes. Then I change an option and repeat. I did this to fine-tune my game to get playable FPS without looking ugly.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Wistrik

[Darque]

Cool, thank you for the tips.

 

I'll try that.

[taks]

simply tinker with turning options on and off while checking the showfps output is what i did. shadows are the biggie, as well as turning off v-sync in your nVidia/ATI control panel.

 

i get a minimum of 30 fps outdoors, usually 40+, and around 50-60 indoors with mostly medium settings.

 

taks

[Setzer]

Use the ShowFPS console command while you tweak settings. It's pretty good at showing you which options have the biggest effect on your framerate aka performance.

 

Edit: I usually pick a spot to stand in, turn on ShowFPS and then let the camera spin the view in 360 degree circles to see how the FPS changes. Then I change an option and repeat. I did this to fine-tune my game to get playable FPS without looking ugly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Either that or you can download & run a cool little utility called FRAPS.

[Setzer]

Yah but you can't compare Oblivion and NWN2, at least according to taks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

direct comparisons of any engine are ridiculous when they are obviously rendering different styles of graphics. it is a different engine entirely. there isn't even a slight resemblance of NWN2 to oblivion. i'm not sure why you don't seem to understand this. two completely different approaches to graphics. to assume one runs with certain performance should automatically imply another will run with similar performance is an absolute joke. if you cannot understand why this is, i cannot help you.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ellester is having no problems running Oblivion @ 1680x1050 -- why not rip on him for comparing the 2 like you did me?

 

By the way, I understand perfectly that these are 2 completely different games using entirely different engines but all I was doing was proving to you that my monitor wasn't the problem.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Setzer

[taks]

Ellester is having no problems running Oblivion @ 1680x1050 -- why not rip on him for comparing the 2 like you did me?

he's not repeatedly complaining that "it runs oblivion fine, therefore it should run NWN2 fine as well." i've also got a pretty good guess that ellester realizes that different games behave differently with the same hardware (based on years of reading ellester's posts).

 

By the way, I understand perfectly that these are 2 completely different games using entirely different engines but all I was doing was proving to you that my monitor wasn't the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i realize that. the primary issue i had with your posting was that i was not claiming your monitor was the problem. i never said it was your monitor's fault. it's simply a quirk with LCDs requiring native resolution to look good. ellester also pointed out that the game runs smoothly with 1024x768, not native, but it doesn't look the best. on my CRT, it looks great in 1024x768 (i can probably bump it up to 1280x960 without a hitch, too).

 

i'm not sure it is possible to get an LCD to really look good out of native resolution, and apparently NWN2 simply chokes even the best video cards in such high resolutions. fortunately, i think, it isn't hard on the eyes to turn down the refresh to 60 Hz with an LCD (if you have a flourescent light in the room, 60 Hz on a CRT equates to a pounding headache, not so with an LCD).

 

taks

[Setzer]

Ellester is having no problems running Oblivion @ 1680x1050 -- why not rip on him for comparing the 2 like you did me?

he's not repeatedly complaining that "it runs oblivion fine, therefore it should run NWN2 fine as well." i've also got a pretty good guess that ellester realizes that different games behave differently with the same hardware (based on years of reading ellester's posts).

 

I only said "it runs Oblivion fine" once. I don't know where you get I've repeatedly been complaining about it?

 

i realize that.  the primary issue i had with your posting was that i was not claiming your monitor was the problem.  i never said it was your monitor's fault.  it's simply a quirk with LCDs requiring native resolution to look good.

 

See, this is my problem with your statement -- if my LCD requires it runs native(1680x1050) in order for it to look good and NWN2 has problems running at higher resolutions then how are you saying the problem isn't my monitor? If I had a smaller monitor I wouldn't be having these issues...apparently.

[alanschu]

The monitor will affect the quality of the image, since it's not in native resolution (like taks, this is the main reason why I'm still using a CRT monitor).

 

Because the game does not run very well at high resolutions (one of the main reasons why, if I were to go for an LCD, I would not buy a big one is because the native resolution is far too high, and I'll be more inclined to spend more money on high quality video cards), you have to drop down the resolution, which would result in a larger hit in image quality than a CRT would probably experience.

 

The "problem" is that the game doesn't run very well in high resolutions (if you want to call it a problem), so you have had to make some sacrifices.

 

The funny thing is that if I could get an LCD that ran in native 1024x768, I'd probably get it. This way I could get more use out of it without having to buy top end cards all the time. I typically play at that resolution on my CRT anyways (which is only a 17" and can't get a very high refresh rate at high resolutions unfortunately, which hurts my eyes).

Edited November 6, 2006 by alanschu

[roshan]

Hi guys, Id really appreciate some help on a couple of points.

 

Does anyone know the maximum strength score that a character can have with and without enhancements?

 

Also, can someone please explain to me what exactly power critical is and how it is different from improved critical?

 

Thank you very much!

[Volourn]

No limit as far as I know mkenaing as a half orc you could, preusmably have 20 strnegth +5 from level up = 25 strength before magics.

 

Power critical for NWN2, IIRC it from feats election screen, gives +4 to attack bonus on the critical strike roll (the secondary d20 roll to see if a critical is actually a critical).

 

Improved crit works like it did in NWN1, I believe except it does stack with keen.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Volourn

[Joseph Bulock]

Hi guys, Id really appreciate some help on a couple of points.

 

Does anyone know the maximum strength score that a character can have with and without enhancements?

 

Also, can someone please explain to me what exactly power critical is and how it is different from improved critical?

 

Thank you very much!

 

STR: Without enhancements, the best STR score you could have would be 25, unless you factor in stat bonuses from the RDD prestige class polymorph forms or druid wild shapes. With enhancements, it gets pretty absurd.

 

Power critical improves your chances to confirm a crit. When you roll an attack die and it lands within the critical threat range of the weapon, you then make another attack roll. If that hits, you have actually scored a critical and get the increased damage. Improved critical just increases the threat range of the weapon.

 

Hope that helps.

[Volourn]

I DESTROYED mr. Bulock by beating him with the answer.

 

He DETROYED me by making the game!

[roshan]

Regarding performance, I have a low end computer (only 1 GB RAM, and a Radeon 9800 256 mb with 1.5 year old drivers, P4 3.2 GHZ) but the game runs well on my machine with several settings at max. (Although the frames per second is most likely ****) I only have a minor lag in dungeon areas. (In some dungeons the performance is quite bad though)

 

Ive turned on both water effects, I have textures at high, Ive turned on the best texture filters, normal mapping and bloom.

 

However I have resolution one level lower than my laptop can support and I have all the maps such as the shadow map etc at the lowest settings(I doubt that these things really matter since when I turned them on the game looked pretty much the same). I can turn on character shadows as well as soft shadows and the other shadow setting with only a minor drop in performance, but for some reason I cant turn on environmental shadows. Since character shadows dont matter to me and I cant turn on environmental shadows anyway I havent bothered with the shadow settings. Ive already seen the characters shadows once and I doubt that they will look radically different anytime.

 

Im going to try running the game at a higher resolution later to see what happens to the performance.

 

HOWEVER, I had really **** performance even at the lowest settings until I turned off VSYNC in my hardware settings. After I turned it off, everything changed. Thanks to whoever gave this tip earlier on. I suggest that anyone with bad performance do the same. The game didnt look any better with VSYNC turned on anyway.

 

I think NWN2 is a really great looking game. I am honestly quite surprised at the level of detail of the textures when I zoom in(I havent played Oblivion though so I cant really compare). But compared to KOTOR at maximum settings this is light years better even when in a similar third person view.

[Setzer]

Why can't I kill the townspeople in the tutorial?

[Volourn]

I don't think you can target 'friendlies'. Something they borrowed from the overrated KOTORs (and JE).

 

If its possible later; ignore my mocking. :ph34r:

[Dark_Raven]

I don't think you can target 'friendlies'. Something they borrowed from the overrated KOTORs (and JE).

 

If its possible later; ignore my mocking. :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It makes us sad it does. How are you suppose to live up to your evil ways as a wanton murderer and pillager if you can't kill townies. Or stupid npcs.

[roshan]

Hi guys, Id really appreciate some help on a couple of points.

 

Does anyone know the maximum strength score that a character can have with and without enhancements?

 

Also, can someone please explain to me what exactly power critical is and how it is different from improved critical?

 

Thank you very much!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

STR: Without enhancements, the best STR score you could have would be 25, unless you factor in stat bonuses from the RDD prestige class polymorph forms or druid wild shapes. With enhancements, it gets pretty absurd.

 

Power critical improves your chances to confirm a crit. When you roll an attack die and it lands within the critical threat range of the weapon, you then make another attack roll. If that hits, you have actually scored a critical and get the increased damage. Improved critical just increases the threat range of the weapon.

 

Hope that helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good, that means there is no hardcoded limit to the strength like in IWD2

 

Im still a bit confused about criticals though

 

So in DND, there are two rolls, one that decides whether the attack is a critical, and another one that decides whether the attack hits the target?

 

Or is there only 1 roll normally, a roll that decides some sort of bonus to your attack, and if you roll a high amount that is in your weapons critical threat range, then you need to roll again to see if it hits a target? If this is the case, doesnt this mean that having a high critical threat range also increases your chance of missing a target because there is also a greater chance that you may need to roll twice in order to hit a target instead of once?

 

And so(in both cases), you can roll a critical and then miss the target when you roll for the attack, which means in order to critically hit a target you need to pass two rolls?

 

If so, which is more useful in terms of how many more critical hits you get, Improved Critical, or Power Critical? I assume it would be Improved Critical, since it is applied before Power Critical comes into play?

[Setzer]

I don't think you can target 'friendlies'. Something they borrowed from the overrated KOTORs (and JE).

 

If its possible later; ignore my mocking. :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It makes us sad it does. How are you suppose to live up to your evil ways as a wanton murderer and pillager if you can't kill townies. Or stupid npcs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. Makes me sad.

[Cyric]

I think NWN2 is a really great looking game. I am honestly quite surprised at the level of detail of the textures when I zoom in(I havent played Oblivion though so I cant really compare). But compared to KOTOR at maximum settings this is light years better even when in a similar third person view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Glad to know uv found a way to enjoy the game, as it is a brilliant game indeed.

 

On the issue of the game engines however, NWN2 runs on heavily revamped and recoded version of NWN's Aurora Engine. Infact we might as well call it Aurora 2, although in official circles its called the Electron Engine.

 

KOTOR/ KOTOR 2 on the other hand, run on the Odessy Engine which while based on the original Aurora are radically different so as not to be the same.

 

The two games and their graphic engines are really quite distinct.

[Volourn]

Not quite. The NWN2 Gpraghics Engine is 100% Electron. Everything else (well.. except toolset which is wholly new as well) is basically an updated Aurora. Though, I still say, the Electron Graphics Engine to me looks like an upgraded Auora style engine even if it is a new engine completely.

 

That's a good thing. Not a bad thing.