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North Korea


LostStraw

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/stor...6134909,00.html

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - North Korea said Monday it had performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test, setting off an underground blast in defiance of international warnings and intense diplomatic activity aimed at heading off such a move.

 

The North Korean statement said there was no radioactive leakage from the test site.

 

An official at South Korea's seismic monitoring center confirmed a magnitude-3.6 tremor felt at the time North Korea said it conducted the test was not a natural occurrence. The official spoke to The Associated Press on condition his name not be used, because he was not authorized to talk about the sensitive information to the media.

here's what the USGS picked up:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recent...s/10/130_40.php

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recent...akes/ustqab.php

 

A bit larger than what the Korean seismic monitoring center claimed, but the times match up.

 

I hope I don't have to go looking for waterchips anytime soon :thumbsup:

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Just because NK has the Bomb doesn't mean it has the means to deliver it. However, this is a bold diplomatic move - I assume that Kim will now walk around as if he carried a big stick. But by pissing off China in the process, I'm not sure if the regime will hold - I mean, the worst they could do now is nuke SK/Japan/China, assuming those countries start imposing sanctions, and I'm suitably confident that a four country alliance will defeat them before that happens.

 

What is most worrying is the US response. I do believe Bush said that the US will not live with a nuclear NK, and in the context of trying to prevent Iran from going nuclear, the US is obligated to deliver a can of whoop ass on Kim's regime, or risk looking like a toothless lion without the means to back up its proclamations.

Edited by Azarkon

There are doors

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maybe it was Kim Il Sung's court astrologers who made a good prediction, after all there was a much bigger one a few miles away at the same time:

Magnitude  5.1 (Moderate)

Date-Time  Wednesday, October 4, 2006 at 08:28:23 (UTC)

= Coordinated Universal Time

Wednesday, October 4, 2006 at 9:28:23 PM

= local time at epicenter

Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones

Location  60.655

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

ingsoc.gif

OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

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Just because NK has the Bomb doesn't mean it has the means to deliver it.

They're trying though

http://www.voanews.com/burmese/archive/200...-07-05-voa3.cfm

The United States says North Korea test- launched five missiles, including a long-range missile, early Wednesday defying international warnings. The long-range missile failed less than a minute after take-off and four shorter-range missiles landed in the Sea of Japan.

As for the nuclear test, speculation is starting to fly about how it may have been faked. Fox News is claiming that the White House has confirmed it was a real rest -- I'll hold off until more news comes in.

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Hahahahhahah...they actually did it.... =] ....honestly I thought they wouldn't do it, but....hahhahahaha.....sorry, I'll have a more constructive post later.... :lol::p

 

 

EDIT - check out the signature of my clone named - tic tac....who's the astrologer now meta. :-" :p

Edited by Hildegard
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I'm suitably confident that a four country alliance will defeat them before that happens.

 

Why are you confident that anybody can defeat a crippled, poor, small nation before it presses a single button?

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I think I've decided to oppose war with North Korea in hope that instead of beinga violent bonkers regime they will have a miraculous conversion and start hugging people.

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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NK may not have the means to stick a nuke on a missle, but they sure can shove one in the back of a truck, plop one on a boat, or drop one out of an airplane. And in a few years, he probably will have the ability to deliver nukes via missle.

 

My fear is what Bush will do now. After all, he's already going on record saying he 'won't tolerate' this. So now he has to show the world what he does when he 'won't tolerate' stuff or end up looking as weak Reagan after pulling our peacekeepers out of Bierut. Since we already have serious sanctions on NK, our options for publicly spanking them are pretty thin.

 

And btw, Hildegard, I don't think this is funny. It's not Americans that will end up vaporized here, after all, so you may wish to rethink your joy.

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NK may not have the means to stick a nuke on a missle, but they sure can shove one in the back of a truck, plop one on a boat, or drop one out of an airplane.  And in a few years, he probably will have the ability to deliver nukes via missle.

 

Correct, but they won't use the nukes first because then they've got too much to lose, to little to gain.

 

My fear is what Bush will do now.  After all, he's already going on record saying he 'won't tolerate' this.  So now he has to show the world what he does when he 'won't tolerate' stuff or end up looking as weak Reagan after pulling our peacekeepers out of Bierut.  Since we already have serious sanctions on NK, our options for publicly spanking them are pretty thin.

 

Yes, other then military actions, a response by the US is very limited indeed, but the Bush administration isn't stupid - they won't launch any strikes, because the response by NK on SK would be horrific for the civilian population...

 

And btw, Hildegard, I don't think this is funny.  It's not Americans that will end up vaporized here, after all, so you may wish to rethink your joy.

 

I'm not laughing or rejoycing because of the posibility the west coast would be nuked, your post proves only the fact that you don't know me and my stand on this. I'm not a mad man to wish deaths of millions of ppl, american or otherwise.

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Correct, but they won't use the nukes first because then they've got too much to lose, to little to gain.

 

That is a rational thought. Kim, however, is not rational. He has just pissed off his only ally, China, which has issued a very stern, very bleak condemnation of this test. Kim quite obviously believes that having a nuke will give him leverage to blackmail the world into giving him more money and other freebies.

 

Yes, other then military actions, a response by the US is very limited indeed, but the Bush administration isn't stupid - they won't launch any strikes, because the response by NK on SK would be horrific for the civilian population...

 

Excuse me, but after watching Bush's move on Iraq I am convinced he cares more about his own reputation than he does the civilian population of any country except his own. His public bluster has been pretty clear. He's done everything but come out and say, "Test nukes and we'll shove so many bombs up your rear that you'll burp flame for a month"... and yet, that is the only thing he can do. Sanctions are out because we already have sanctions imposed on NK... sanctions the NK want lifted. China said a few days ago that the only way NK would stop the test is if sanctions were lifted. We didn't lift sanctions, and the test was done. So, what happens when they promise to nuke Seoul or Tokyo?

 

Anyway, it's been rumored that NK could cause 10 million casulaties in the south with his conventional weapons alone, so I have no idea what Bush is going to do or what Kim will do. But it does not bode well for anyone in that part of the world.

 

I'm not laughing or rejoycing because of the posibility the west coast would be nuked, your post proves only the fact that you don't know me and my stand on this. I'm not a mad man to wish deaths of millions of ppl, american or otherwise.

 

I see.

 

Hahahahhahah...they actually did it....  ....honestly I thought they wouldn't do it, but....hahhahahaha.....sorry, I'll have a more constructive post later.... 

 

You might wish to explain exactly what you found so enjoyably hilarious about North Korea's nuclear test. I found the post to be inappropriate and rather offensive because I apparently did not understand the cause of your mirth.

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Well, let's put it this way: if Bush doesn't respond "sternly," then Iran gets a free green light on its nuclear program, Japan & S. Korea follows, and the NPT goes all to hell. Course, that might be a good thing, considering that double standards have cost the US more than dearly in terms of world prestige.

 

Thought experiment: if nuclear weapons are indeed the deterrent people claimed that they were, then say that we arm Japan, S. Korea, and India with nukes to counter N. Korea, Pakistan, and Iran - it'd lead to world peace, right, cause no country would dare set off nukes in fear of retaliation so everyone would just play nice? And to think: we'd all have Kim to thank for bringing humanity into a new golden age - maybe he really is the Great Leader :mellow:

Edited by Azarkon

There are doors

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Death threats or threats to destroy economies can reasonably be expected to have these kinds of effects - the targets arm themselves -especially when the threatener has a record of frequent treacherous behavior - which makes agreements worthless. :(

 

As an aside, I am not afraid of North Korea with or without nuclear weapons.

Edited by Colrom

As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good.

If you would destroy evil, do good.

 

Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God.

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arm Japan, S. Korea, and India with nukes to

 

Doesn't India already have teh bomb?

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

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US, Russia, India, Pakistan, China, France, UK and Germany are, I believe, the nuclear powers of the world right now. With NK theres nine total.

 

It should be pointed out that once a country has nukes, it will never give them up via diplomacy.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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US, Russia, India, Pakistan, China, France, UK and Germany are, I believe, the nuclear powers of the world right now. With NK theres nine total.

 

It should be pointed out that once a country has nukes, it will never give them up via diplomacy.

 

Didn't South Africa have nukes and give them up? I think they did. So it is possible.

 

That example notwithstanding I agree that it is unlikely that a country will give up military capabilities. But they might let them decay if there is no perceived need for them and they are costly to maintain.

As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good.

If you would destroy evil, do good.

 

Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God.

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From wiki:

 

"Nuclear weapons

South Africa developed a small finite deterrence arsenal of gun-type fission weapons in the 1980s. Six were constructed and another was under construction at the time the program ended.

 

 

Viable delivery

None of the six bombs were particularly sophisticated, being designed to be delivered from one of several aircraft types then in service with the South African Air Force (SAAF). The Canberra B12 in service with 12 Squadron SAAF was chosen as the primary air drop vehicle as it was highly reliable, spares were readily available from several countries (unlike the Buccaneer - and the maritime reconnaissance Shackleton, grounded due to UK refusal to supply spare parts), and it had both a significantly greater radius of action and a much higher operating altitude than both the Buccaneer and Cheetah. There was also much more internal space for the fitting of weapons system control equipment.

 

Further, the Buccaneer was designed with a rotating bomb-bay, which needed modification to carry the first-generation 'shape' weapon, raising complexity and reliability issues, and increased fuel consumption, leading to the Canberra B12 being the preferred 'viable means of delivery' in the early part of the program.

 

However, South Africa had a relatively sophisticated intercontinental ballistic missile programme running concurrently with the nuclear programme, and was known to be working on more sophisticated nuclear weapons capable of delivery from such a platform. According to published data one of the missiles, the RSA-4, may have been capable of delivering a 700 kg nuclear warhead from its South African launch site to any point on earth.

 

In September, 1979 a flash over the Indian Ocean detected by a U.S. satellite was suspected of being a South African nuclear test, in collaboration with Israel (this event is known as Vela Incident). No official confirmation of it being a nuclear test has been made, and multiple expert agencies have disagreed on their assessments. In 1997, Deputy Foreign Minister Aziz Pahad stated that South Africa had conducted a test, but later retracted the statement as being a report of rumors. Pahad apparently had no inside information about the program.[1] A number of other sources have quoted anonymous Israeli officials verifying that some sort of test took place, but none of this has been officially confirmed by the Israeli, South African, or United States governments. However, in February 1994 Commodore Dieter Gerhardt, the convicted Soviet spy and former commander of South Africa's Simonstown naval base was reported to have said:

 

"Although I was not directly involved in planning or carrying out the operation, I learned unofficially that the flash was produced by an Israeli-South African test code-named Operation Phenix. The explosion was clean and was not supposed to be detected. But they were not as smart as they thought, and the weather changed

As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good.

If you would destroy evil, do good.

 

Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God.

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they are costly to maintain.

 

May just be cheaper to fire 'em of, then, aye?

Edited by Arkan

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

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they are costly to maintain.

 

May just be cheaper to fire 'em of, then, aye?

 

 

The clean up costs associated with firing them off can be a problem too. Although recent events in New Orleans and Mississippi suggest that cleanup of disasters is not a major concern for some folks.

As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good.

If you would destroy evil, do good.

 

Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God.

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