Most powerful Sith in KOTOR series (spoilers???)

[DeathScepter]

he doesnt even care about Visas.

[Darth Blivion]

He cares about Visas the way a planet-eating Sith Lord is expected to. When you ask Kreia about why he spared Visas, she says something about it being the last humane thing Nihilus was prepared to do. Basically, Visas represents Nihilus' last shred of humanity.

Edited October 15, 2006 by Darth Blivion

[Sionn]

This is how I rank 'em.

 

1. Revan

2. Bastila Shan

3. Sion

4. Kreia

5. Malak

6. Bandon

 

I agree with The Architect about Nihilus..... he is not as powerful as everyone thinks he is!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Bandon doesn'y deserve to be #6, i'd say the guy in the Dxun tomb is #6..... Man he was a pain in the butt.

[vaxen83]

Just deviating slightly from topic, in terms of stats and saves among party characters in game, Kreia would likely have balance overall, although her Str mod is almost none. Quite effective, especially with manipulation without over-exertion, even as a non-Sith character.

 

Nihilus tended to look more like a non-existent character. Hardly saw him although it is partly due to cut content taken out of game. Especially with supposed battle involving him and Atris.

Edited October 16, 2006 by vaxen83

[Guest The Architect]

The force is what consumes him or precisely, the need to overcome the restrictions the dark side has placed upon him i.e. he will die and be consumed by the dark energies he sought to attain. In many ways I think Nihilus is very much in control of his 'hunger'. What you have to remember is that it is constantly trying to kill him, his "hunger" - as Kreia mentioned - is a primal thing, but Nihilus is not. The leeching serves as a means to keep the 'hunger' from consuming him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What you have to remember is that it is not something that can ever truly be controlled... and it leaves nothing to conquer in its wake. And it rules him, not the other way around. It has its own will, its own instincts. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.

 

Understand? The quote from Kreia says it all. Surely I don't have to explain it. Darth Nihilus controls jack ****, not even 'his leeching'. He's just like a living poison that slowly devours the life out of others, because that is the purpose of the technique. He is already dead.

 

I don't think it makes sense to call someone who's just some half-dead planet eating freak who's not in control of anything not a primal thing. Wouldn't you agree? I mean, how could anyone possibly say that Darth Nihilus is not a primal thing? You're pulling my leg, right?

 

Nihilus remains a Sith Lord as is evident in the following link. http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.p...heid=13-457&p=3 Pretty much shoots down your argument. And Nihilus cares only for himself and Visas (his apprentice), which is pretty much how Sith are expected to be: selfish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is this 'Dark Horse Comics' run by a bunch of monkeys or something? Because they're contradicting the game itself by saying that Darth Nihilus is a proper Sith Lord and so on. Why didn't they pay attention to this?

 

And he cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings... or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well. There is no future in the empty galaxy he sees.

 

Darth Nihilus may have been a proper Sith Lord prior to KotOR II but in KotOR II, he's clearly portrayed as a planet/life eating freak who's practically already dead and is being consumed by this technique.

 

As Kreia has said, sparing Visas was probably the last shred of humanity in him, but after that, he's clearly not a proper Sith Lord who has no control over his actions. The hunger controls him. How can he be a proper Sith Lord, when he's pretty much already dead? Sure, being 'selfish' is one of the Sith's teachings, but he doesn't percieve the galaxy like a Sith Lord would, precisely because he's already dead.

 

Also, you cannot tell me that the goal of a Sith is to wipe out all existing life, until there is nothing left. Usually the Sith just want to destroy the Republic/Jedi Order and rule the galaxy, conquering it as dictators or something along those lines. I know of know Sith Lord that wanted to kill everything (all life), do you?

 

In fact, that's probably why Darth Nihilus was portrayed as a proper Sith Lord in that Dark Horse comic, because after his death (or in his case, a weird evaporation) he most likely was just normal again. IMO, I think Darth Nihilus was a proper Sith Lord before he attacked Katarr. But ever since that moment, he became the sub-human clown that we see, hear (with his peculiar knob-jockey gibberish) and defeat easily in KotOR II.

 

And my argument has not been shot down as you claim, because the information we are told in the game (Obsidian's characters) overrides any contradicting crap we hear from a bloody comic, because Dark Horse Comics didn't make KotOR II, Obsidian did, capish?

 

Since Obsidian portrayed Darth Nihilus is clearly portrayed as only a Sith Lord in name who's just some half-dead, life/planet draining zombie freak, I think your argument has been shot down.

Edited October 17, 2006 by The Architect

[Darth Blivion]

Just live with it. Darth (Sith title for a Dark Lord of the Sith Order) Nihilus, is a Sith Lord. What is a proper Sith Lord? Is there some mystical criteria that a character must pass to be considered a proper Sith Lord? He received his Sith title (naturally like most every other Sith Lord) by completing his training in the Sith arts. A Sith's primary purpose is to attain power, this priority overrrides all others. A Sith has never had to care for the posterity of the order. Posterity only becomes a consideration if it is a means to attain or maintain power, Nihilus simply has another more direct means of attaining that power. His purpose is to extuingish life because he beleives its (life) only purpose is to feed his 'hunger'.

 

As Kreia's apprentice he had an insutiable hunger for power and through unknown means acquired the ability to strip his victims of the force and feed of their force energies to grow stronger. Somewhere along the line he lost complete control of his power and could at best only direct his "hunger" towards other life forms to keep it from consuming him entirely. It's obvious that the 'hunger' is a primal thing, not Nihilus. Kreia mentions that his hunger (not Nihilus) is a primal thing and it consumes him as he consumes others. Notice how she mentions: "it consumes him" meaning she is talking about his 'hunger'. The hunger - we know - has a will of its own but it is not a conscious entity as you seem to be implying.

 

Nihilus is the one who gives the 'hunger' purpose, he's the one who provides it with a means to draw force energy from living things. Without Nihilus the 'hunger' wouldn't exist. The 'hunger' is merely a manifestation of the raw power of the dark side, uncontrollable and all consuming. Nihilus is an example of a Sith Lord who's attained raw power to it's fullest extension - to a point where it's not humanly possible to fully control.

[Darth Blivion]

As Bane said, "power is its own purpose". Nihilus is just a Sith who has unlocked the power of the dark side to a point where it has grown too much for a human to control without it consuming him. If I remember correctly, Palpatine's body was also corrupted and consumed by the dark energies he attained.

[Guest The Architect]

Just live with it. Darth (Sith title for a Dark Lord of the Sith Order) Nihilus, is a Sith Lord. What is a proper Sith Lord? Is there some mystical criteria that a character must pass to be considered a proper Sith Lord? He received his Sith title (naturally like most every other Sith Lord) by completing his training in the Sith arts.  A Sith's primary purpose is to attain power, this priority overrrides all others. A Sith has never had to care for the posterity of the order. Posterity only becomes a consideration if it is a means to attain or maintain power, Nihilus simply has another more direct means of attaining that power. His purpose is to extuingish life because he beleives its (life) only purpose is to feed his 'hunger'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I already know all of this. Darth Nihilus at some point was a Sith Lord, I'm not denying that fact, but in KotOR II, he no longer is.

 

My argument is that during the events of KotOR II Darth Nihilus is no longer a Sith Lord. Why do I believe that? Because Kreia says he cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings. So how can he be a Sith Lord if he doesn't care about its teachings? How can anyone call themselves a Sith Lord if they don't care about (which pretty much implies don't follow) the Sith teachings? It doesn't make any sense does it? Think about it.

 

As Kreia's apprentice he had an insutiable hunger for power and through unknown means acquired the ability to strip his victims of the force and feed of their force energies to grow stronger. Somewhere along the line he lost complete control of his power and could at best only direct his "hunger" towards other life forms to keep it from consuming him entirely. It's obvious that the 'hunger' is a primal thing, not Nihilus. Kreia mentions that his hunger (not Nihilus) is a primal thing and it consumes him as he consumes others. Notice how she mentions: "it consumes him" meaning she is talking about his 'hunger'. The hunger - we know - has a will of its own but it is not a conscious entity as you seem to be implying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, the hunger is a primal thing I agree, but so is Nihilus. What makes me say that? Well, how can someone who's purpose is too drain all existing life not be a primal thing? Unless you're implying for some odd reason that to do something like that is not primal.

 

If so, I don't understand. What is so un-primal about such an act? It is a primitive thing to do. Thus making Darth Nihilus a primal thing. Don't you see where I'm coming from? I know that Darth Nihilus was a Sith Lord, but I don't agree that he still was a Sith Lord during the events of KotOR II.

 

As Bane said, "power is its own purpose". Nihilus is just a Sith who has unlocked the power of the dark side to a point where it has grown too much for a human to control without it consuming him. If I remember correctly, Palpatine's body was also corrupted and consumed by the dark energies he attained.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Doesn't this contradict what you were saying before, about Nihilus giving the hunger a purpose? If 'power has its own purpose', then the hunger has its own purpose. Add that to the fact that Kreia says it has its own will, its own instincts and I fail to see how Nihilus gave the hunger a purpose, since it has its own purpose.

 

I do agree though that Nihilus was just a Sith who had unlocked the power of the dark side to a point where it has grown too much for a human to control without it consuming him. Eventually, he was consumed that much that he no longer cared for the Sith or its teachings (no longer making him a Sith Lord) and only cared about feeding his hunger.

Edited October 18, 2006 by The Architect

[Benjamin Korr]

My vote goes to Kreia. No other Sith in the series seemed to have the deep understanding of the dark side that she did. She was the manipulative puppet string puller of the whole act. One's power cant be fully measured by sheer power in the force (though she had plenty of that) but by how they use it.

[DeathScepter]

Nihilus' addicition is like to a Drug Addicition.

 

 

The Addicition rules him; not the other way around.

[DarthReliguim]

My vote goes to Kreia. No other Sith in the series seemed to have the deep understanding of the dark side that she did. She was the manipulative puppet string puller of the whole act. One's power cant be fully measured by sheer power in the force (though she had plenty of that) but by how they use it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps I need to inform you of Revan's powers.

 

1. Force storm- not like Palpatine's or the lightning but it would destroy an entire world

2. Thought bomb- the most powerful weapon of the DS, he taught it to Darth Bane

 

I could list more but I believe those powers show he knew far more than Kreia about the dark side. He was responsible for the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire simply because he told bane that there should only be two Sith Lords.

[DeathScepter]

Darth Traya is very powerful in the force and she is quite knowledgable also.

 

 

Without Traya as Kreia, Revan is nothing.

 

 

Kreia was Revan's True Master. For She gave him the knowledge and the wisdom to be the future Sith Lord.

 

 

Wisdom and Knowledge are keys to be a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.

[DarthReliguim]

Prove kreia taught him something.

[Purgatorio]

^I will bight...

Her saying Revan was her apprentice in times long past doesn't prove she taught him any Sith or dark-side powers.... Even though she was a Grey Jedi and a historian who believed the light and dark to be the two sides of the one coin?

 

It is possible that the power is needed to achieve your goals, and the manipulative aspects of Kriea were taught to Revan, however actual techniques such as Thought Bomb, (which to me sounds like it came from the destruction of Malachore), and the Force Storm... did that destroy worlds? Revan could have learnt them through other means.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Purgatorio

[Gorgon]

Revan. Revan can reload everytime he loses a battle.

 

Handy that.

[Darth Osiris]

Good point. I dont remember seeing Anakin reloading when he got sliced to bits...

Personally, I think Revan is the most powerful. My opinions dont usually amount to much, but I think after killing Malak, when he buggered off, he discovered something that brought back all of his previous memories and powers, and gave him a few new ones as well. Although it may just be wishful thinking on my part...

[Dark_Raven]

Revan does rule over all.

 

But the Exile could be right up there with the way she can influence others to her cause. Plus she is the death of the Force as Nilhus found out.

[Darth Osiris]

True. Id forgotten about the Exile...

[DeathScepter]

I was saying about Kreia and Revan's relationship is that Kreia taught him all of the important skills of the Jedi when he trained under her.

 

 

Without Kreia, Revan will not be primed to be trained under Jedi Master in his stay in the Jedi Order Then his stay in His Sith Order.

 

 

 

I do consider Kreia to be a good teacher...........in the sense from what I have seen from Kotor 2.

[mandalorianx]

I was saying about Kreia and Revan's relationship is that Kreia taught him all of the important skills of the Jedi when he trained under her.

 

 

Without Kreia, Revan will not be primed to be trained under Jedi Master in his stay in the Jedi Order Then his stay in His Sith Order.

 

 

 

I do consider Kreia to be a good teacher...........in the sense from what I have seen from Kotor 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well i can't say that revan hade only kreia as master, and beside the more knowlege he got the more did he want and it was the same with his power. dont think kreia would be abel to win agenst revan....and we will never know

[vaxen83]

Suppose that Kreia as a Jedi master is interesting with her manipulation, and also she falling to dark side of force. And promise to Exile to increase learning while she does not bother as much about other party characters. Especially with Atton and Mandalore.

[Darth Rexon]

1.Revan

2.Traya,Sion,Nihilus

3.MALAK

4.Basila

5.Bandon

[DarthReliguim]

Dude, Bandon doesn't deserve to even be on the 5,000,000,000,000,000th most powerful sith list.

Edited October 24, 2006 by DarthReliguim

[Darth Blivion]

Doesn't this contradict what you were saying before, about Nihilus giving the hunger a purpose? If 'power has its own purpose', then the hunger has its own purpose. Add that to the fact that Kreia says it has its own will, its own instincts and I fail to see how Nihilus gave the hunger a purpose, since it has its own purpose.

 

I do agree though that Nihilus was just a Sith who had unlocked the power of the dark side to a point where it has grown too much for a human to control without it consuming him. Eventually, he was consumed that much that he no longer cared  for the Sith or its teachings (no longer making him a Sith Lord) and only cared about feeding his hunger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When Bane said 'power is its own purpose', he didn't mean power hasa purpose, he meant powers only purpose is power. The power Nihilus wielded had no purpose except its own power, Nihilus merely gave that power direction. The argument here is does a Sith Lord have to care about the Sith order to be a Sith? I'll direct you to the Sith code.

 

Peace is a lie there is only passion through passion I gain strength; through strength I gain power; through power I gain victory; through victory my chains are broken; the force shal free me. Now, one thing is consitent with all great Sith Lords, they are selfish and only meet there end through inevitable death. A Sith Lord only cares about the Sith order if it is as means to acquire and maintain power.

 

If there is a hierachy of authority(however large or small) a Sith Lord will look to use it to advance himself. If there are apprentices a Sith will either kill them or use them, to gain and maintain his power. But what happens when a Sith Lord acquires the fullest human extent of dark side power? The Sith order no longer becomes important only the force, and that's what happened to Nihilus. He didn't stop becoming a Sith Lord, he just devled too deep into the dark side, to a point where most Sith Lords wouldn't dare delve. The Sith order eventually becomes a victim sacrificed to attain power for Nihilus. Nihilus represents the deepest darkness of the force.

[Dark_Raven]

Why use spoiler tags in the spoiler forum?