Cut Content vrs. Accidental Editing Errors

[DarthMethos]

Cut Content vrs. Accidental Editing Errors

What actually happen to TSL?

I read this in another forum. I felt the original poster had a good point.

 

Cut Content:

1. Intentionally removed content that has no bearing on the overall story.

2. Includes: HK Factory.

3. Includes: M4-78 Droid Planet.

4. Information removed for a number of unknown reasons. Anything from being inconsistant or not necessary for the story.

 

Accidental Editing Errors:

1. Pieces that were removed accidently.

2. Pieces that were not removed accidently.

3. Includes: What happened to your team mates on Malacore.

4. Includes: Not erassing references to the HK Factory on Telos.

5. Includes: Not erassing references to the Droid Planet.

6. Pieces that would bring clearity to the end or whole story.

 

Why do people believe TSL is not a complete game? Is it due to the cut content or the accidental editing errors?

 

It would be illogical to believe that both are to blame. Very illogical. What do you think?

Edited September 2, 2006 by DarthMethos

[alanschu]

Why is someone on a crusade to convince people otherwise?

[Purgatorio]

It would be illogical to believe that both are to blame. Very illogical. What do you think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that a rhetorical question ,it seems to me that you have answered it yourself. How is it illogical?

 

It is similar to whether or not an Opera should be restored. If the parts that were edited out can be put back in without lessening the quality of the music or drama. They aren't making up new music/code. In the 18th century there was the form known as Pastiche where composers borrowed from others to make something new. Modders? Not quite. I digress....Deadlines aren't unique to modernity ,do a search for Tito Manlio for an example of deadlines shifting causing problems for the artist. He who pays the piper calls the tune. Have you no sympathy for the artist you Philistine?

My point is ,if some parts are missing and can be restored and these restorations don't damage the integrity of the work in question ,is that a problem? If you want to play the other version you still have the unrestored copy.

[dufflover]

With what you said I would definitely say the accidentals, in regards to an unfinished game. It still has a few incomplete things which are from story design rather than cut content.

If nothing was mentioned about the HK factory or having Mira walking off, etc then there wouldn't be so many "huh's"

[vaxen83]

Believe that there are many reasons. Likely to be lack of time. However, time is sometimes too often an excuse. It is more of whoever could pressure Obsidian probably played role too well, beyond predictable extent. If you want to know more, just keep eyes peeled and look at other previous threads about such, actually.

[DarthMethos]

Why is someone on a crusade to convince people otherwise?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not believe that there is a crusade to convince people otherwise. Have you ever thought that maybe people's emotions have created an false illusion. Think about what I am suggesting. Think about what we know about what happened.

 

I believe some people are driven to the cut content emotionally, and it overshadows the logic of what actually has happened.

 

I am willing to bet you that a small fraction of the cut content is actually accidental editting errors .

 

(Keep in mind, we are not in anyway talking about the restoration projects. Please try to find a answer without being emotionally driven to protect something that is not being attacked.)

Edited September 2, 2006 by DarthMethos

[kirottu]

And always remember to underline the important parts.

[DarthMethos]

And always remember to underline the important parts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What he said. :D

 

I am trying to get people to understand that only the accidental editting errors caused the game to be incomplete. I have read through all the files, and I concluded that only a small fraction of what is being called the cut content are actually essential. All other cut content is not impoertant.

Edited September 2, 2006 by DarthMethos

[alanschu]

You're clearly on a crusade to convince people that your impressions of the game are the correct one.

 

Why do you care if people think the game was incomplete?

[Judge Hades]

It would be illogical to believe that both are to blame. Very illogical. What do you think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

BOTH! (w00t)

[Dark_Raven]

this here topic is just soooooo interesting. Yes sir. (w00t)

[DarthMethos]

People are either getting board or they are boaring. There is no life to the forums. Let me here your fire.

[Xard]

Cut Content:

1. Intentionally removed content that has no bearing on the overall story.

2. Includes: HK Factory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So after all the talk that is found in-game (mainly from Hk-47 and suggestions that when time is right factory will go "down" " ) that makes you wait for resolving whole Hk-50 issue, and never seeing it, has no bearing to overall story?

 

M4-78 was cut because of lack of time too.

 

All games have cut-content, and there would be no reason to restore TSL's, unless there would not have been so many "Huh? What the ****?" moments that are resolved by cut-content.

 

Whole ending, really.

 

However, with purposedly cut stuff includes Atris being party member etc. TSLRP is not restoring those

Edited September 3, 2006 by Xard

[DarthMethos]

Cut Content:

1. Intentionally removed content that has no bearing on the overall story.

2. Includes: HK Factory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So after all the talk that is found in-game (mainly from Hk-47 and suggestions that when time is right factory will go "down" " ) that makes you wait for resolving whole Hk-50 issue, and never seeing it, has no bearing to overall story?

 

M4-78 was cut because of lack of time too.

 

All games have cut-content, and there would be no reason to restore TSL's, unless there would not have been so many "Huh? What the ****?" moments that are resolved by cut-content.

 

Whole ending, really.

 

However, with purposedly cut stuff includes Atris being party member etc. TSLRP is not restoring those

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is one of those parts where it was accidentally left in. Bad edits.

[Xard]

And bad edits were in-game because of the rush... because of the rush original ending/happenings were not included.

 

Oh, if they were going to cut HK-50 factory all along, they should've cut whole HK-50's out of the game. Oh, and what's this talk about HK factory in droid guide book?

 

Oh my, I really, really believe, that factory was not intented to be in final game, and canonicaly there never was one!

[vaxen83]

Quite true. It is hard to think of something without entirety of consideration. That would almost be like having Bao-Dur without horns as indication of being Iridonian alien or somehow close to that. Characters could also have been polished up and story extended further, assuming bugs are ok, especially villains like Nihilus or Sion. Would have been interesting to see flashback involving Atris/Nihilus battle narrated by perhaps Atris herself.

Edited September 4, 2006 by vaxen83

[Dark Wastl]

I'm pretty sure that some parts which are restored in the restauration-project weren't supposed to be in the final game, even before the excessive last minute cutting happened.

Not everything that was cut at the end of the development circle was necessarily cut because of time restrains, either.

Without word from a developer no one will ever know whether this certain part was supposed to be in the game or not, although it is somewhat obvious in certain cases.

 

That said, having more content than originally planned for the final version sure beats having an unfished version

Although I have to say that I still enjoyed KOTOR II immensely. It's close to the top of my favorite games, and I would love to see Obsidian finish the story in KOTOR III.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I really can't understand the hack job they did on the editing floor. Did no one play test Malachor and point out the oddness of having a GOTO vs. Remote showdown that involved the possible destruction of Malachor going completly unfinished? Or the awkwardness of the trip to Malachor in the first place.

 

They really could have made it work, or atleast made it less obvious if they had actually hacked MORE from the story. They needed to edit the talks with HK47 to remove the obvious references to 'Sure Exile, if you figure out how we'll go to the HK50 factory and shut it down! Yup, it's coming up in game if you gather a few clues", completly edit out the remote on Malchor V and instead have the Exile either set the computers to blow the planet if good or not if evil and add some sort of cutscene on Telos where the Exile says good bye to his/her buddies and tells them to wait while he goes alone.

 

The way it was left edited in game though just feels like they were literally in the middle of adding these things, got a call from LA and realized they needed the Gold Disc the next day. "Oh crap, just throw out what we're working on now and hope the game players are too stupid to see the incomplete plot lines".

[ShadowCaster]

Both..

 

There

Edited September 5, 2006 by ShadowCaster

[Hassat Hunter]

Actually we are sure that happened. Release got forwarded from February to December to stay out of another LA's game's path and be under the X-Mas Tree

[Xard]

Another LA game? You mean Republic commando? Or Mercenaries? (which was good)

[Benjamin Korr]

Heres what I think. I think the original idea was for the game to have all that content. Then they decided to cut the HK factory, maybe they didnt have time to finish it. Then in the hassle to get it assembled in time, perhaps they forgot to smudge out a few little over-sights like the factory. And it's likely that time was also the reason we didnt see what happens to your party on Malachore and other little mistakes.

[Hassat Hunter]

Another LA game? You mean Republic commando? Or Mercenaries? (which was good)

 

Republic Commando got pushed back to the same X-mas.

 

I believe it was for the Ep III game... not quite sure though... has been a while.

[LunarG]

Cut Content:

1. Intentionally removed content that has no bearing on the overall story.

2. Includes: HK Factory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So after all the talk that is found in-game (mainly from Hk-47 and suggestions that when time is right factory will go "down" " ) that makes you wait for resolving whole Hk-50 issue, and never seeing it, has no bearing to overall story?

 

M4-78 was cut because of lack of time too.

 

All games have cut-content, and there would be no reason to restore TSL's, unless there would not have been so many "Huh? What the ****?" moments that are resolved by cut-content.

 

Whole ending, really.

 

However, with purposedly cut stuff includes Atris being party member etc. TSLRP is not restoring those

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is one of those parts where it was accidentally left in. Bad edits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Actually, to make the edits better, you would have had to remove the HK-50 driods, because they serve no other real point of the story other than leading you to the HK-Factory. Oh, and then you'd have to remove HK-47 as well, cause he is of no real importance in this game either, other than being a main part of the HK-Factory quest.

 

The ending of the game, give no explanation of anything what so ever. The game takes plenty of time to get through, and as a reward you get a 10 second cut-scene of the Ebon Hawk flying off to wherever. What kind of endnig is that?

 

Even before I knew for a fact that the game had any cut content (although a whole bunch of dialogues and hints throughout the game suggested as much) I felt that the game as a whole didn't make any sense.

 

The story of the game is severely crippled, and I for one see no logic in NOT restoring the missing content.

 

Granted, a 3rd game in the series could have explained all the unresolved issues in TSL, but then a major part of the game would have gone by just to do that.

 

And besides, we don't even know if there will be a 3rd game.

[<CHARNAME>]

If all of this content was originally intended to have been cut, then OE wouldn't have left all those files for PC users to find.

HK-47 was in KotOR 2 because he was the most popular character in the original game. That's why Minsc was in Baldurs Gate 2 for example. It could have easily been a different NPC altogether.

 

Fact of the matter is, it's common business practice to release products in time for Crimbo. That way, your company will make more money out of it as people search desperately for half-decent gifts. if LA hadn't pressured OE into releasing it in time for the holidays, they would have made less money out of the game and that's not how Lucasarts works.

 

People are interested in the missing content for several reasons.

 

1: There is knowledge about it. With that knowledge comes the feeling that they are missing out. People genarally don't like that feeling and can go out of their way to alleviate it.

2: Economics - People have paid money for this game. Once they realise that things are missing they begin to think that they're not getting their moneys worth. They want to squeeze every penny that they've spent.

3: Fan motives: Fans of Star Wars want to know all there is to know. The craving for knowledge of all things Star Wars drives them to demand that the content be restored so that they can satisfy their desire for it. Maybe GMs who run Star Wars d20 campaigns want some more info on M4-78 so they can include it in their campaigns

 

All of these factors (and maybe more that don't come instantly to mind) will make people try to restore the lost content.